March 3, 20223 yr 9 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: I have no idea what the line is. But at this stage I don't see the west risking nuclear war over Ukraine, even though it would be the right thing to do the cost may just be too high. Regardless of what some think in this thread, I don't think Putin is acting rationally. I think he's acting more desperately. Which just makes it more risky. NATO nation, yes. And I hate thinking that way. Cant give in to fear. This is our best shot to ruin putin, most likely putin isnt going to nuke his front yard
March 3, 20223 yr 7 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said: Still waiting for gas? They are a sitting duck so surprised they are safe. Fire up the tomahawks
March 3, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, ToastJenkins said: Cant give in to fear. This is our best shot to ruin putin, most likely putin isnt going to nuke his front yard I think these sanctions are having a bigger and more immediate impact than expected. If that doesn't do it I don't know what will. A direct confrontation with the west might have the effect of entrenching him further and allowing Russia to unite against the West as a common enemy. And Putin always struck me as a "if I can't have it nobody can" kind of bully, I wouldn't would it past him to deploy a nuke.
March 3, 20223 yr 23 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said: This is bad nato has to step in with strikes. Im sorry i want to avoid escalation but putin simply can not be permitted to win this. divy up the targets across militaries. Its has to be a coalition and not just us Nope. Unless Russia uses nukes, NATO has to stay out. If Russia uses nukes, we have to use nukes too, so it might be the end of humanity, but hey, you got to do what you got to do. Better for all of us to die than to live in fear of some tyrant with nukes.
March 3, 20223 yr 3 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: I think these sanctions are having a bigger and more immediate impact than expected. If that doesn't do it I don't know what will. A direct confrontation with the west might have the effect of entrenching him further and allowing Russia to unite against the West as a common enemy. And Putin always struck me as a "if I can't have it nobody can" kind of bully, I wouldn't would it past him to deploy a nuke. Knowing it would ensure moscow get levelled?? Unlikely
March 3, 20223 yr 4 minutes ago, wyote said: Nope. Unless Russia uses nukes, NATO has to stay out. If Russia uses nukes, we have to use nukes too, so it might be the end of humanity, but hey, you got to do what you got to do. Better for all of us to die than to live in fear of some tyrant with nukes. Coward we are already in. Just indirectly. May as well quit pretending and end this crap
March 3, 20223 yr Just now, ToastJenkins said: Knowing it would ensure moscow get levelled?? Unlikely I believe that if Putin thinks he's going down he would pull the trigger. Whether the command structure would listen is another story. Nightmare scenario is that Putin has removed those obstacles and has a way to launch a nuke without relying on a command structure. Unlikely, but not impossible given his persona.
March 3, 20223 yr 16 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said: Still waiting for gas? They are a sitting duck so surprised they are safe. Maybe that's what the new drones are for..... (More missiles to go with the drones are also on board apparently)
March 3, 20223 yr 8 minutes ago, wyote said: Unless Russia uses nukes, NATO has to stay out. So, even if a NATO country is attacked, you'd reneg on the committment?
March 3, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said: I believe that if Putin thinks he's going down he would pull the trigger. Whether the command structure would listen is another story. Nightmare scenario is that Putin has removed those obstacles and has a way to launch a nuke without relying on a command structure. Unlikely, but not impossible given his persona. He wont think he is going down. He can retreat to russia and maintain his power. He knows that. The nuke guarantees he loses everything. He knows that
March 3, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said: Coward we are already in. Just indirectly. May as well quit pretending and end this crap "This crap" means all of our lives? Ukraine isn't worth it. Russia can't afford a drawn-out occupation anyway. NATO and the West are winning without firing a shot. Putin is delegitimizing himself in the eyes of his own people. We might still get to nuke each other but if not you'll have to cope with living perhaps even a long life.
March 3, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, EaglesRocker97 said: So, even if a NATO country is attacked, you'd reneg on the committment? I mean, if I were The Decider, we wouldn't be in NATO, but since we are, we have a duty to retaliate and I would uphold that duty with conventional forces. If Russia pushed the nuke button, I would retaliate as well. I think I was pretty clear on that -- I would end life on Earth sooner than I would submit to an authoritarian ruler.
March 3, 20223 yr Just now, wyote said: "This crap" means all of our lives? Ukraine isn't worth it. Russia can't afford a drawn-out occupation anyway. NATO and the West are winning without firing a shot. Putin is delegitimizing himself in the eyes of his own people. We might still get to nuke each other but if not you'll have to cope with living perhaps even a long life. Your cowardice to sacrifice a free people disgusts me. May your chains be light upon you and we will forget you as a countryman. if wr fear the nuke now then it becomes an excuses to shrink from every challenge. Pure cowardice. There comes a point where you refresh the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
March 3, 20223 yr 9 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: They are worse than double F'ed. However, there are some foreign supply chains still open. Supplies can trickle in. With things like international flights cancelled, foreign trade on the skids... How long can they retrofit parts from grounded planes? And from shuttered factories? I feel there is some time they can ride this out. Question is, how long does this go? Who flinches? And what gives? We need to proceed delicately right now, as any action can be interpreted as escalation. Putin is not acting rational.
March 3, 20223 yr 3 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said: Your cowardice to sacrifice a free people disgusts me. May your chains be light upon you and we will forget you as a countryman. if wr fear the nuke now then it becomes an excuses to shrink from every challenge. Pure cowardice. There comes a point where you refresh the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Happy to disgust you, man. The US and I don't actually care about free people. That's all BS. We're in it for the $$$$, bro. Like all war, this is about men using violence to take things from other men, and all the ideology -- freedom, religion, whatever -- is just a veneer of justification. There won't be a tree of liberty or anything else if we nuke each other. Someone somewhere might survive, but you and I won't.
March 3, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, wyote said: I mean, if I were The Decider, we wouldn't be in NATO, but since we are, we have a duty to retaliate and I would uphold that duty with conventional forces. If Russia pushed the nuke button, I would retaliate as well. I think I was pretty clear on that -- I would end life on Earth sooner than I would submit to an authoritarian ruler. But NATO exists for precisely this reason: To draw a line in the sand to prevent future madmen from running roughshod over weaker European nations until they're in our backyard. Given the diminutive size of European states, it is indispensable to form a united front against aggressive superpowers, otherwise carrying out European conquest with modern weaponry would be a walk in the park. In the nuclear age, NATO is absolutely fundamental to our security. It truly disturbs me how so many people seem to think or postwar alliance structure is something expendable and to be toyed with. Losing memory of the horrors of the world wars and how they occurred is perhaps the most disastrous and fundamentally stupid forms of ignorance that I can imagine.
March 3, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, wyote said: Happy to disgust you, man. The US and I don't actually care about free people. That's all BS. We're in it for the $$$$, bro. Like all war, this is about men using violence to take things from other men, and all the ideology -- freedom, religion, whatever -- is just a veneer of justification. There won't be a tree of liberty or anything else if we nuke each other. Someone somewhere might survive, but you and I won't. This is moronic jibberish
March 3, 20223 yr 3 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: Well I know what Abra's plans are: What happened to Russia? This confirms that there’s a nosedive to the 1970s USSR. Holy crap! Even China isn’t this bad.
March 3, 20223 yr Just now, EaglesRocker97 said: But NATO exists for precisely this reason: To draw a line in the sand to prevent future madmen from running roughshod over weaker European nations until they're in our backyard. Given the size of most European nations, it is indispensable to form a united front against aggressive superpowers, otherwise carrying out European conquest with modern weapons would be a walk in the park. In the nuclear age, NATO is absolutely fundamental to our security. It truly disturbs me how so many people seem to think or postwar alliance structure is something expendable and to be toyed with. Losing memory of the horrors of the world wars and how they occurred is perhaps the most disastrous and fundamentally stupid forms of ignorance that I can imagine. It's a relic of early twentieth century military realities that no longer hold. As we have seen, the US can't even sustain an occupation in Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. Russia/USSR couldn't do it in Afghanistan and they won't be able to do it in Ukraine. Machine guns are cheap and soldiers are expensive, so eventually the population wins. Perhaps robots and drones will change this but for now it's no longer the war that breaks an empire, it's the occupation. We don't have to nuke Russia to stop them. We only have to arm whoever they attack. 4 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said: This is moronic jibberish So are you going to go join Ukraine's foreign legion, or are you all talk?
March 3, 20223 yr For anyone that looks at videos on Reddit, be extra cautious clicking on "War is Hell”. Jesus, I’ll never forget what I just saw.
March 3, 20223 yr Just now, wyote said: It's a relic of early twentieth century military realities that no longer hold. As we have seen, the US can't even sustain an occupation in Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. Russia/USSR couldn't do it in Afghanistan and they won't be able to do it in Ukraine. Machine guns are cheap and soldiers are expensive, so eventually the population wins. Perhaps robots and drones will change this but for now it's no longer the war that breaks an empire, it's the occupation. We don't have to nuke Russia to stop them. We only have to arm whoever they attack. Or you can deter them from attacking in the first place by uniting in a defensive pact. If anything this invasion has shown that the original reason for NATOs existence is still applicable.
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