March 4, 20223 yr The world is willing to send arms and cash (US $10B) to aid a country Putin has "said" he is willing to flatten versus pulling out. This on top of the billions we're paying them in crude while this is going on. So basically we're going to fund and arm Russia with unused armament when they eventually take what they wanted. What is the point to this again? If we're going to do this (eventual head to head) fine. If we're not then WTF are we doing here?
March 4, 20223 yr With great pain, we learned the tragic news of the death of our friend, Major General Andrey Sukhovetsky, on the territory of Ukraine during the special operation," he wrote, according to a translation published by the English-language Russian outlet, Pravda.ru. "We express our deepest condolences to his family." Interesting if they can verify it.
March 4, 20223 yr Ukraine gives up nuclear arms in 1994 under the assurance of being defended. They have not been. How many smaller nations will be looking for nuclear arms based on the results of the "agreement" signed by Ukraine? I'm sure Iran could be interested in the cash. India? Pakistan? China?
March 4, 20223 yr 15 minutes ago, lynched1 said: The world is willing to send arms and cash (US $10B) to aid a country Putin has "said" he is willing to flatten versus pulling out. This on top of the billions we're paying them in crude while this is going on. So basically we're going to fund and arm Russia with unused armament when they eventually take what they wanted. What is the point to this again? If we're going to do this (eventual head to head) fine. If we're not then WTF are we doing here? I don’t quite get it all either. What’s the long term strategy? In my opinion, putin won’t be satisfied by only doing this to get the east of Ukraine and some guarantees of the west not joining nato. The cost of doing this is far too high for that to be his ambition. I just don’t see any other motivation at this point other than him wanting to absorb Ukraine into a new Russian empire. After this, he will only want to continue the expansion. At the end of the Ukraine situation, what next? Do we just give Putin another slap on the wrist and hope he doesn’t do it again? NATO and the west are going to have a direct conflict with Russia at some point imo, the longer we wait for that to happen the harder that may become.
March 4, 20223 yr 10 minutes ago, Muz86 said: NATO and the west are going to have a direct conflict with Russia at some point imo, the longer we wait for that to happen the harder that may become. That's where I'm at. It would take a Pearl Harbor type incident. Problem being we're not 1940's America. It's fashionable for Americans to hate America today.
March 4, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, lynched1 said: The world is willing to send arms and cash (US $10B) to aid a country Putin has "said" he is willing to flatten versus pulling out. This on top of the billions we're paying them in crude while this is going on. So basically we're going to fund and arm Russia with unused armament when they eventually take what they wanted. What is the point to this again? If we're going to do this (eventual head to head) fine. If we're not then WTF are we doing here? 1 hour ago, Muz86 said: I don’t quite get it all either. What’s the long term strategy? In my opinion, putin won’t be satisfied by only doing this to get the east of Ukraine and some guarantees of the west not joining nato. The cost of doing this is far too high for that to be his ambition. I just don’t see any other motivation at this point other than him wanting to absorb Ukraine into a new Russian empire. After this, he will only want to continue the expansion. At the end of the Ukraine situation, what next? Do we just give Putin another slap on the wrist and hope he doesn’t do it again? NATO and the west are going to have a direct conflict with Russia at some point imo, the longer we wait for that to happen the harder that may become. The West is hoping to destroy the Russian economy and force Putin to the negotiating table. The delivery of weapons to Ukraine is to help the Ukrainians stall long enough for the economical problems to take effect prior to Ukraine being leveled, which at least in the north is working okay. It may be pie in the sky but the West is trying to win what clearly is effectively is a world war without firing a bullet. But history tells us that tyrants could care less about the status of their people so long as they themselves don’t feel the discomfort. So the Russian people will suffer but highly doubtful that an obliterated economy affects Putin’s analysis. So maybe you two end up being right after all.
March 4, 20223 yr 22 minutes ago, Thrive said: The West is hoping to destroy the Russian economy and force Putin to the negotiating table. The delivery of weapons to Ukraine is to help the Ukrainians stall long enough for the economical problems to take effect prior to Ukraine being leveled, which at least in the north is working okay. It may be pie in the sky but the West is trying to win what clearly is effectively is a world war without firing a bullet. But history tells us that tyrants could care less about the status of their people so long as they themselves don’t feel the discomfort. So the Russian people will suffer but highly doubtful that an obliterated economy affects Putin’s analysis. So maybe you two end up being right after all. Yeh I think for me, I just don’t see any way that Putin negotiates in a reasonable manner. Even once his economy collapses (which it almost certainly will), I think he’s more concerned with saving face and projecting strength than doing what’s right for his country. With this in mind, I can’t see him capitulating on his demands for no nato membership, demilitarisation and likely Russian ownership of eastern / southern Ukraine. And if the west decides this is an acceptable trade, then what was the point in allowing this carry on to start? History would not look kindly upon that decision. Who knows, maybe the economic pressure will force a revolution or coup, but it appears that a good portion of the Russian population has bought in to the propaganda and will likely blame the west for their hardships rather than looking in house. Hopefully I’m wrong and Putin isn’t actually a fascist dictator, but the red flags are now very clear to see.
March 4, 20223 yr 59 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: I see lynched is planning to drive into work drunk this morning. Again. Also, the sky is up and water is still very wet.
March 4, 20223 yr 9 hours ago, TEW said: At this point, yeah. The alternative is a nuclear war. It’s not an option. We’ll apply sanctions and send military aid, but that’s the extent of the fight we can put up… which means in all probability Putin takes Ukraine. That’s what we wish we could prevent, right There was a possibility to prevent this. Not a certainty, but a possibility. You set up an agreement where Ukraine doesn’t join NATO in exchange for concessions on Russian military presence within X distance of their border. That would at least take Russia’s fear of Ukraine joining NATO off the table and change Putin’s calculus. He’d have to telegraph he was breaking the deal by violating it with the buildup to invasion. Would it be enough? Who knows? But it would definitely take one of his biggest concerns off the table. And let’s say it didn’t work — you’ve lost nothing (Russia still invades) but gained even more political capital internationally against Russia. It’s literally a free option. You lose nothing and have a chance at avoiding this situation entirely, at least for a while. Give Putin whatever he wants out of fear of nuclear attack sounds like a very realistic and sustainable foreign policy.
March 4, 20223 yr 7 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said: Boca Grande? Work out your forearms. Casey Key. Fairly close I think.
March 4, 20223 yr 15 minutes ago, Gannan said: Give Putin whatever he wants out of fear of nuclear attack sounds like a very realistic and sustainable foreign policy. False dilemma.
March 4, 20223 yr Nothing to see here. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10577095/Kremlin-forces-children-watch-propaganda-videos-Russia-limits-access-BBC-website.html
March 4, 20223 yr 16 minutes ago, Talkingbirds said: Nothing to see here. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10577095/Kremlin-forces-children-watch-propaganda-videos-Russia-limits-access-BBC-website.html The ministry of education used a 12-year-old singing prodigy to repeat Putin message his troops are in Ukraine to protect Russians there from 'neo-NSDAPs' personally, i think putin is actually there to find hunter biden's laptop.
March 4, 20223 yr 4 hours ago, Muz86 said: Who knows, maybe the economic pressure will force a revolution or coup, but it appears that a good portion of the Russian population has bought in to the propaganda and will likely blame the west for their hardships rather than looking in house. Yeah, I'm wondering if this situation is turning into Germany in the 1930s, where Hitler successfully pinned their economic exigencies (effects of the Depression exacerbated by the harsh conditions imposed by the Treaty of Versailles), and in this case, Putin opportunistically seizes on Russia's economic collapse and effectively utilizes propaganda to spin this the West's fault and enlist the Russian people's support for global war.
March 4, 20223 yr 13 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: Yeah, I'm wondering if this situation is turning into Germany in the 1930s, where Hitler successfully pinned their economic exigencies (effects of the Depression exacerbated by the harsh conditions imposed by the Treaty of Versailles), and in this case, Putin opportunistically seizes on Russia's economic collapse and effectively utilizes propaganda to spin this the West's fault and enlist the Russian people's support for global war. It certainly looks like he’s borrowed a significant amount out of hitlers play book so far, so no reason to believe he won’t keep dipping in to that. The more time goes on with this situation the more I’m beginning to believe that Putin is a believer in fascism at heart.
March 4, 20223 yr 19 minutes ago, mr_hunt said: ain't nuthin but a lady g thang.... Anyone else think it's a little irresponsible for a US senator to openly advocate for the leader of a nuclear power to be assassinated?
March 4, 20223 yr 20 minutes ago, mr_hunt said: ain't nuthin but a lady g thang.... Republicans are still saying the silent part out loud, I see.
March 4, 20223 yr Just now, EaglesRocker97 said: Still moronic to telegraph that. Who cares? What's Putin gonna do, attack Ukraine?
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