47 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

 

Nord Stream 2 has been shut down, apparently.

That one will make Putin think, but we'll see how long it lasts when energy prices spike

 

 

On 2/17/2022 at 12:53 PM, Procus said:

It would be funny if Russia said the hell with Nord Stream II, we're pulling out altogether. Sell that gas in Asia.

While we're at it, how about we tighten supplies going to EU. We'll call it counter sanctions. 

France is probably grinning like a Cheshire cat. They're ramping up nuclear power plants while the rest of EU is about to go dark.

11 hours ago, ToastJenkins said:

And our spineless leaders will do nothing

Probably, though outside of sanctions, I'm not sure what we could do other than protect Ukraine with our own troops which no one seems to have the stomach for. I guess we could get uber aggressive and set up a no fly zone and shoot down Russian planes if they try to violate it, but that would lead to all out war most likely. 

Damn crystal ball must be broken. Recognizing parts of Ukraine as independent and using that to invade to support them never cross my mind. These KGB guys are chess masters.

Hmm. I have to wonder now, if Biden implements full sanctions, does that give Putin a Green Light to invade the rest of Ukraine? 

As for spineless, Biden sent U.S. Troops to neighboring NATO states to bolster their defenses. He sent military aide and equipment to Ukraine. He sanctioned the two areas that Putin declared independent. 

What more is he supposed to do? Declare full sanctions. Agree to allow Ukraine to Join NATO? Or are some suggesting that US/NATO combined forces go into Ukraine and kick Russia out. 

Not sure what those who call him spineless are suggesting he do? 

Tucker Carlson Defends Putin Amid Ukraine Crisis: ‘That Is Not Treason’

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/tucker-carlson-defends-putin-amid-053322889.html

Carlson took offense to Cicilline’s comment, saying America has "no legal or moral obligation to defend Ukraine’s territorial integrity,” claiming that Ukraine isn’t even a democracy.

But Biden is Spineless? 

15 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said:

Hmm. I have to wonder now, if Biden implements full sanctions, does that give Putin a Green Light to invade the rest of Ukraine? 

As for spineless, Biden sent U.S. Troops to neighboring NATO states to bolster their defenses. He sent military aide and equipment to Ukraine. He sanctioned the two areas that Putin declared independent. 

What more is he supposed to do? Declare full sanctions. Agree to allow Ukraine to Join NATO? Or are some suggesting that US/NATO combined forces go into Ukraine and kick Russia out. 

Not sure what those who call him spineless are suggesting he do? 

I tend to think war with Russia is most likely inevitable. We can let Putin take Ukraine now, but we will be forced into war when he eventually invades Poland or Romania or the Baltic states. All we are doing now is putting off the inevitable.

5 minutes ago, Gannan said:

I tend to think war with Russia is most likely inevitable. We can let Putin take Ukraine now, but we will be forced into war when he eventually invades Poland or Romania or the Baltic states. All we are doing now is putting off the inevitable.

1 minute ago, Abracadabra said:

19 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said:

Hmm. I have to wonder now, if Biden implements full sanctions, does that give Putin a Green Light to invade the rest of Ukraine? 

As for spineless, Biden sent U.S. Troops to neighboring NATO states to bolster their defenses. He sent military aide and equipment to Ukraine. He sanctioned the two areas that Putin declared independent. 

What more is he supposed to do? Declare full sanctions. Agree to allow Ukraine to Join NATO? Or are some suggesting that US/NATO combined forces go into Ukraine and kick Russia out. 

Not sure what those who call him spineless are suggesting he do? 

Implement the full sanctions. Doing anything less implicitly acknowledges and gives some credence to Putin's claims that these territories are somehow Russian. An internationally recognized sovereign border was violated. That's the line. 

Mexico going into New Mexico to protect Spanish speakers wouldn't be tolerated, and neither should this.

2 hours ago, UK Eagle said:

Gotcha.

Germany, having over the past few years, closed down power stations have an issue.  Where do they go?  They can't hold the line for long as they are reliant on the gas to function and deliver political policy.  Putin will know how little backup Europe has to pivot from his gas supplies.  People warned Germany they were playing with fire on approving the pipeline, but the zero Carbon focus overrode other concerns.

The UK has plentiful gas and coal supplies, but we won't get near it, so instead our prices are going up again. Never let a tyrant control your lives, and we did that

Biden needs to reverse course and support the EastMed pipeline.

Just now, Gannan said:

Exactly. You morons are stuck in cold war thinking.

Putin wants to invade Poland but he's going to start piecemeal by recognizing a few republics in Ukraine. 

Post picture of Chamberlain in 1938, get accused of being stuck in Cold War thinking

I love this place

3 minutes ago, Gannan said:

I tend to think war with Russia is most likely inevitable. We can let Putin take Ukraine now, but we will be forced into war when he eventually invades Poland or Romania. All we are doing now is putting off the inevitable.

That's certainly a contingency worth planning for. I assume that's why Biden sent troops and Jets to NATO countries to bolster their defenses should the war expand. Biden showed some Prudence with those moves. 

Let's look at the map for a moment. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are now NATO members. They Border Russia. I don't believe these countries should have been permitted to Join NATO. I also believe that Biden should have stated Ukraine will never join NATO and end this crises. However, if Putin has expansion plans, I believe these three countries would be at the top of the list. First we have to see if he will invade all Ukraine or not. But then NATO would be required to defend them and Putin is aware of that. I don't think he wants war with NATO a war he can't win.

From my layman's perspective Russia's Military capability doesn't match the USA. Just numbers. Their tanks and personnel carriers look outdated. Their jets look like 4th Gen. 

Poland and Romania are also part of NATO. Putin would be insane to invade them. That would be WWIII. Probably the end of civilization given they have nuclear weapons.

And are we considering allowing Finland to Join NATO as well? 

 

 

6 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Mexico going into New Mexico to protect Spanish speakers wouldn't be tolerated, and neither should this.

I was going to say this earlier, but I figured with New Mexico being so damn poor most people might not care if Mexico takes it.

6 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Implement the full sanctions. Doing anything less implicitly acknowledges and gives some credence to Putin's claims that these territories are somehow Russian. An internationally recognized sovereign border was violated. That's the line. 

Mexico going into New Mexico to protect Spanish speakers wouldn't be tolerated, and neither should this.

I'm fine with full sanctions. Ukraine is calling for that. 

But how would we feel if Mexico and Canada joined the Warsaw Pact? 

If Washington was shelling Mexicans in New Mexico, Mexico would be justified in protecting innocent civilians.

Those objecting to Russia sending forces to protect innocent civilians are supporting genocide.

2 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said:

That's certainly a contingency worth planning for. I assume that's why Biden sent troops and Jets to NATO countries to bolster their defenses should the war expand. Biden showed some Prudence with those moves. 

Let's look at the map for a moment. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are now NATO members. They Border Russia. I don't believe these countries should have been permitted to Join NATO. I also believe that Biden should have stated Ukraine will never join NATO and end this crises. However, if Putin has expansion plans, I believe these three countries would be at the top of the list. First we have to see if he will invade all Ukraine or not. But then NATO would be required to defend them and Putin is aware of that. I don't think he wants war with NATO a war he can't win.

From my layman's perspective Russia's Military capability doesn't match the USA. Just numbers. Their tanks and personnel carriers look outdated. Their jets look like 4th Gen. 

Poland and Romania are also part of NATO. Putin would be insane to invade them. That would be WWIII. Probably the end of civilization given they have nuclear weapons.

And are we considering allowing Finland to Join NATO as well? 

 

 

 

I couldn't disagree with this more. We shouldn't allow our foreign policy decisions to be dictated by authoritarians threatening violence. Give in to that, and eventually he will demand something we can't give (like ending NATO). 

I wouldn't support Ukraine joining NATO, and I think the expansion of NATO was a mistake (to be fair, it was the former Eastern Bloc countries that wanted to join for security, not the West looking to expand). But letting Putin use threats to dictate NATO policy would be a much bigger mistake.

3 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said:

I'm fine with full sanctions. Ukraine is calling for that. 

But how would we feel if Mexico and Canada joined the Warsaw Pact? 

Probably the same as when Cuba did. Royally ticked and seeing it as a gross violation of the Monroe Doctrine. I would have cut them off economically (same as we did with Cuba), but not invade.

3 hours ago, Seventy_Yard_FG said:

I don’t see how Europe is better off with no gas rather than having some gas but Putin has the option to turn it off

a lot of butt sniffers seem very interested in who has the most gas 

Hmmm. Trust me, they are far better off without relying on Putin. 

3 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I couldn't disagree with this more. We shouldn't allow our foreign policy decisions to be dictated by authoritarians threatening violence. Give in to that, and eventually he will demand something we can't give (like ending NATO). 

I wouldn't support Ukraine joining NATO, and I think the expansion of NATO was a mistake (to be fair, it was the former Eastern Bloc countries that wanted to join for security, not the West looking to expand). But letting Putin use threats to dictate NATO policy would be a much bigger mistake.

if anything this should hasten Ukraine's entry into NATO.

Just now, vikas83 said:

I couldn't disagree with this more. We shouldn't allow our foreign policy decisions to be dictated by authoritarians threatening violence. Give in to that, and eventually he will demand something we can't give (like ending NATO). 

I wouldn't support Ukraine joining NATO, and I think the expansion of NATO was a mistake (to be fair, it was the former Eastern Bloc countries that wanted to join for security, not the West looking to expand). But letting Putin use threats to dictate NATO policy would be a much bigger mistake.

Ok. I'm glad at least you admit the expansion of NATO was a mistake. I agree we can't allow our foreign policy to be dictated. 

3 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Probably the same as when Cuba did. Royally ticked and seeing it as a gross violation of the Monroe Doctrine. I would have cut them off economically (same as we did with Cuba), but not invade.

To be fair, the US had Nukes in Turkey at the time. 

I certainly don't want war with Russia, and don't entirely trust the narratives and motives of our administration, but I just can't understand this sudden urge by many right-leaners to give Putin any kind of benefit of the doubt. D00de is a rattlesnake, and he's not going to be satisfied with any concessions that we might give.