2 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

I can reply Its a free country still, Putin hasn't invaded yet

Sure thing, and I can answer and say the question was posed to someone else

3 minutes ago, Procus said:

Have you forgotten what Trump ordered while Xi was visiting Mar-O-Lago?  But again, the invasion is much more about weakness perceived on the part of Obama and Biden than it was about perceived strength of Trump.  At the end of the day, what happened and when did it happen?  Facts on the ground speak loudly for themselves.  You need to justify your stance much more than I need to justify mine.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/13/trump-to-address-the-nation-about-syria-nbc-news.html

Trump orders targeted strikes in Syria to retaliate for suspected chemical weapons attack

Ok, so you still just don't have any answer other than pointing at other people.  I tried about 10x to no avail.  I'll rest now.

2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Sure thing, and I can answer and say the question was posed to someone else

God Bless America

7 minutes ago, Procus said:

Have you forgotten what Trump ordered while Xi was visiting Mar-O-Lago?  But again, the invasion is much more about weakness perceived on the part of Obama and Biden than it was about perceived strength of Trump.  At the end of the day, what happened and when did it happen?  Facts on the ground speak loudly for themselves.  You need to justify your stance much more than I need to justify mine.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/13/trump-to-address-the-nation-about-syria-nbc-news.html

Trump orders targeted strikes in Syria to retaliate for suspected chemical weapons attack

Trumpbots: Trump was great because he kept us out of wars! Biden sucks because he is provoking a nuclear power!

Also Trumpbots: If Russia had invaded when Trump was in office he would have launched airstrikes on Russian targets!

8 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Ok, so you still just don't have any answer other than pointing at other people.  I tried about 10x to no avail.  I'll rest now.

You are full of it. 

I gave  you very valid reasons and you have NOTHING to justify why these invasions happened shortly after major f ups by Democratic presidents.  Put up something concrete with a substantiated factual basis or stand down.  You have NOTHING!  You clearly have the burden of proof here - not me.  😂

6 minutes ago, Gannan said:

Trumpbots: Trump was great because he kept us out of wars! Biden sucks because he is provoking a nuclear power!

Also Trumpbots: If Russia had invaded when Trump was in office he would have launched airstrikes on Russian targets!

This wasn't directed to you (Sorry - Docs rules, not mine)

11 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Ok, so you still just don't have any answer other than pointing at other people.  I tried about 10x to no avail.  I'll rest now.

I'll bet against that

18 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Let me try one last time.  What about Trump prevented Putin from invading?  Don't respond by talking about someone else or democrats or whatever.  Answer with specific info about Trump and why Putin wouldn't have invaded with Trump in office.

You didn't ask me, but I'm chiming in anyway. Key things Trump did was block Nordstream 2, and work with our producers and OPEC to keep oil prices low.  The low oil prices played a big part in Putin not having enough cash to fund his invasion. The higher oil prices, and the approval of Nordstream 2 under The Big Guy gave Putin the confidence that he would be able to fund it. Those are just part of the equation, but key parts.

1 minute ago, The_Omega said:

You didn't ask me, but I'm chiming in anyway. Key things Trump did was block Nordstream 2, and work with our producers and OPEC to keep oil prices low.  The low oil prices played a big part in Putin not having enough cash to fund his invasion. The higher oil prices, and the approval of Nordstream 2 under The Big Guy gave Putin the confidence that he would be able to fund it. Those are just part of the equation, but key parts.

People died for your right to respond  , of course they didn't die in the presence of deagle7 so their lives are not as important...sorry I said I would not post in that other thread anymore so I had put that in

18 minutes ago, The_Omega said:

You didn't ask me, but I'm chiming in anyway. Key things Trump did was block Nordstream 2, and work with our producers and OPEC to keep oil prices low.  The low oil prices played a big part in Putin not having enough cash to fund his invasion. The higher oil prices, and the approval of Nordstream 2 under The Big Guy gave Putin the confidence that he would be able to fund it. Those are just part of the equation, but key parts.

The #1 reason Putin thought he could invade Ukraine was because he thought he had US and NATO too divided to respond.  He didn't think we would pull together and take the pain the at the pump.  The #1 reason he felt we were divided enough to go ahead was Trump and Trump -like leaders in the western alliance.  Putin can't finance this war at any gas price.  He can only win if the west backs off because we don;t have the fight.

11 minutes ago, The_Omega said:

You didn't ask me, but I'm chiming in anyway. Key things Trump did was block Nordstream 2, and work with our producers and OPEC to keep oil prices low.  The low oil prices played a big part in Putin not having enough cash to fund his invasion. The higher oil prices, and the approval of Nordstream 2 under The Big Guy gave Putin the confidence that he would be able to fund it. Those are just part of the equation, but key parts.

He didn't "block" Nordstream 2. And opposition to NS 2 was one rare area of partisan agreement the last decade or so. Biden's withdrawal of opposition was an acknowledgement of the inevitable, as by the time he entered office it was basically complete.

Trump, like many in Europe and here in the US, opposed NS 2. Ultimately though, Germany is a sovereign nation and despite opposition NS 2 proceeded on schedule. 

Nothing the US did under Trump or anyone else slowed or hastened its progress until the realities of what Russia is became apparent because of Ukraine.

54 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

Trump's instability, Putin couldn't gauge what the response would be

I would add that Trump also wasn’t looking to expand western influence in Ukraine. So there was less risk for Putin not to make a move, and more risk if he did make a move.

Trump had already killed over a hundred Russians in Syria. So the possibility of direct conflict was already on the table.

4 minutes ago, TEW said:

I would add that Trump also wasn’t looking to expand western influence in Ukraine. So there was less risk for Putin not to make a move, and more risk if he did make a move.

Trump had already killed over a hundred Russians in Syria. So the possibility of direct conflict was already on the table.

Putin didn't care about losing men in Syria. In fact losing men in Syria and not making a stink about it makes it pretty clear that keeping Trump in office was more attractive than leveraging it to exact a price.

He had Trump convinced that Ukraine should be an enemy of the US. Between that and Trump's crowing about NATO, biding his time on Ukraine makes absolute sense.

5 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Putin didn't care about losing men in Syria. In fact losing men in Syria and not making a stink about it makes it pretty clear that keeping Trump in office was more attractive than leveraging it to exact a price.

He had Trump convinced that Ukraine should be an enemy of the US. Between that and Trump's crowing about NATO, biding his time on Ukraine makes absolute sense.

https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/3269193-why-did-putin-invade-ukraine-now/

 

In my view, Putin had planned to invade Ukraine for a while and did not wish to complicate what he believed would be an inevitable re-election of Trump by invading Ukraine during Trump’s first term. Instead, Putin always planned to wait for a second term because, right or wrong, he anticipated a more favorable American response from a second Trump administration.

Again, this is not about Trump; it is about how Putin viewed a potential second term. There are certainly examples of American toughness with Russia under Trump, but Putin also knew that America’s justifiable focus on Iran, North Korea and China made the idea of a warming relationship with Russia more welcome in America. Further, with Trump’s emphasis on "America First” policies that downplayed globalism and multilateral partnerships such as those associated with NATO, Putin likely believed the response to a Russian invasion under a second Trump administration would be quite nuanced, potentially fracturing NATO to the point of operational impudence or even dissolution. 

The key here, though, is that Putin’s narcissism and the autocracy of his own creation prevented him from properly assessing the new strategic landscape that followed Biden’s election. He failed to recognize the potential consequence of new American leadership in pulling NATO — and arguably, most of the remaining developed world — into a consolidated and powerful resistance against the brutality resident in Putin’s own ignorance.

As a result, Putin kept his demented plan on track and elected to move forward without the foggiest idea that NATO’s defensive foundation, coupled with the outrage of much of the world, would crush the lifeblood from his economy; reveal his military, at least for the moment, as an incompetent pariah; and make his nation an isolated island of imperialistic autocracy surrounded by freedom-loving and newly awakened nations.

 

 

5 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

 

 

That's what happens when nobody wants your money.

1 hour ago, vikas83 said:

I'll bet against that

Might be a good bet though I've managed to be pretty good at staying away, see Kz, if I make up my mind.

For Procus I'm only talking about this particular question.

1 hour ago, The_Omega said:

You didn't ask me, but I'm chiming in anyway. Key things Trump did was block Nordstream 2, and work with our producers and OPEC to keep oil prices low.  The low oil prices played a big part in Putin not having enough cash to fund his invasion. The higher oil prices, and the approval of Nordstream 2 under The Big Guy gave Putin the confidence that he would be able to fund it. Those are just part of the equation, but key parts.

I might not agree with you but this is a good response.

8 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

That's what happens when nobody wants your money.

Or you have zero imports because no one trades with you any more.

8 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

That's what happens when nobody wants your money.

62.10/USD

1 hour ago, vikas83 said:

Or you have zero imports because no one trades with you any more.

What I said but better

7 hours ago, Procus said:

Oh, he's off in a lot of ways, but he ain't stupid.  There's a big difference.

This statement can only be made by someone who is dumber than Trump.

3 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Putin didn't care about losing men in Syria. In fact losing men in Syria and not making a stink about it makes it pretty clear that keeping Trump in office was more attractive than leveraging it to exact a price.

He had Trump convinced that Ukraine should be an enemy of the US. Between that and Trump's crowing about NATO, biding his time on Ukraine makes absolute sense.

The Russians in Syria were mercenaries. Essentially, plausible deniability for both sides. Trump pulled a wild card by taking action. At that point there isn’t much Putin can do. They weren’t under the Russian banner so he couldn’t make it into an international incident.

Not sure where you get the idea that Ukraine was an enemy of the US in Trump’s eyes, let alone that Putin convinced him of this.

7 minutes ago, TEW said:

The Russians in Syria were mercenaries. Essentially, plausible deniability for both sides. Trump pulled a wild card by taking action. At that point there isn’t much Putin can do. They weren’t under the Russian banner so he couldn’t make it into an international incident.

Not sure where you get the idea that Ukraine was an enemy of the US in Trump’s eyes, let alone that Putin convinced him of this.

Trump and his cronies accused Ukraine of election interference (based on nothing but Kremlin propaganda)

And a few months later, Trump was 💋 Putin's 🍑 at Helsinki 😍😍😍

💩 👃 

What the 90th percentile trumpbot fails to mention is that plausible deniability is exactly the game Biden's been playing from the beginning of all this. I mean, we literally just got done denying we provided targeting intel after the Moskva was sunk. So the implication that Trump could thread that needle while Biden couldn't is beyond laughable.

All the excuses for Biden, I love the fan fic theories that took weeks to dream up....

And all you TDSers are nodding your heads like "yeah, totally, this is it, this is finally the reason that explains why Putin invaded during Biden and not Trump"

What happened to "Trump was weakening NATO"????

Now, it's "not about Trump."  Maybe because you morons cant possibly dream up a scenario where Biden isnt a spectacular failure and a weak figurehead.

 

Trump > Biden still, in literally every facet of their actual job