5 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Him having any sort of correspondence with the leader of the invading force kinda torpedoes your theory. You get an A for effort, though!

not really.

He has had contact with Zelensky too.

Have there been accounts of his services failing inside Ukranian borders? If he is allowing that to happen, then its all a farce.

If theyre working properly there, but not in areas like Crimea (which are not his to decide), then hes solid. 

You want to act like hes buddies with Putin, he could easily allow Russia to use his service in their territory just as he is allowing Ukraine to use the service in theirs. But hes not.

Hes not helping Russia. He is helping Ukraine.

He is helping Ukraine defend its territory. Not take new territory.

Seems reasonable.

 

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

not really.

Have there been accounts of his services failing inside Ukranian borders? If he is allowing that to happen, then its all a farce.

If theyre working properly there, but not in areas like Crimea (which are not his to decide), then hes solid. 

You want to act like hes buddies with Putin, he could easily allow Russia to use his service in their territory just as he is allowing Ukraine to use the service in theirs. But hes not.

Hes not helping Russia. He is helping Ukraine.

He is helping Ukraine defend its territory. Not take new territory.

Seems reasonable.

Yes, actually. Since he went Neville Chamberlain on Twitter, there's been issues with Starlink.  Inside Ukrainian borders. 

1 minute ago, Bill said:

Yes, actually. Since he went Neville Chamberlain on Twitter, there's been issues with Starlink.  Inside Ukrainian borders. 

So, we will see how that plays out.

If hes been swayed by Russians and things begin to look fishy then hes a turd.

At the same time, lets be patient and see if things get fixed. Its not out of the realm of possibility for Russia to be able to hack those things successfully from time to time.

I know they tried right in the beginning, and pretty much failed as starlink re-wrote code quickly to ward off the attack. But Im sure theyre not going to be invincible. 

Lets see if it gets fixed quickly, or if the systems to continue to fail. 

 

Another enemy being made. Nice

4 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

So, we will see how that plays out.

If hes been swayed by Russians and things begin to look fishy then hes a turd.

At the same time, lets be patient and see if things get fixed. Its not out of the realm of possibility for Russia to be able to hack those things successfully from time to time.

I know they tried right in the beginning, and pretty much failed as starlink re-wrote code quickly to ward off the attack. But Im sure theyre not going to be invincible. 

Lets see if it gets fixed quickly, or if the systems to continue to fail. 

Occam's Razor. 

It's decidedly not probable. Also, there's a lack of time to "wait and see".

21 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

not really.

He has had contact with Zelensky too.

Have there been accounts of his services failing inside Ukranian borders? If he is allowing that to happen, then its all a farce.

If theyre working properly there, but not in areas like Crimea (which are not his to decide), then hes solid. 

You want to act like hes buddies with Putin, he could easily allow Russia to use his service in their territory just as he is allowing Ukraine to use the service in theirs. But hes not.

Hes not helping Russia. He is helping Ukraine.

He is helping Ukraine defend its territory. Not take new territory.

Seems reasonable.

 

Pre-invasion borders? Yes

 

Quote

They were acute in the south around the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions, but also occurred along the frontline in eastern Kharkiv, Donetsk and Luhansk, the official said. All four regions are the focus of an intense Ukrainian counteroffensive and were claimed last month by President Vladimir Putin as part of Russia after referendums staged by Kremlin proxies.

https://www.ft.com/content/9a7b922b-2435-4ac7-acdb-0ec9a6dc8397

edit: link to original report

Just now, Bill said:

Occam's Razor. 

It's decidedly not probable. Also, there's a lack of time to "wait and see".

Lets not forget, Musk is just a guy. Hes not US military or Ukraine military. Hes not a private contractor. Hes some guy with a bunch of toys who said hey! I have some walkie talkies you can play with that might help you out!

He got them this far. A war that people expected to see Ukraine trampled over in a matter of days. Instead he has helped Ukraine last 7 months and counting.

I cant see how there can be anything but gratitude expressed towards him. 

Its really not his fight.

If his stuff starts failing. Even if he wants to pull it all out of there. You thank him for the 7 months and move on. Figure it out. Who gets to decide he is obligated to remain in, and for how long? A bunch of liberals who are mad he doesnt want them to be able to censor twitter? Theyre waiting for this opportunity to crap on him.

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

Lets not forget, Musk is just a guy. Hes not US military or Ukraine military. Hes not a private contractor. Hes some guy with a bunch of toys who said hey! I have some walkie talkies you can play with that might help you out!

He got them this far. A war that people expected to see Ukraine trampled over in a matter of days. Instead he has helped Ukraine last 7 months and counting.

I cant see how there can be anything but gratitude expressed towards him. 

Its really not his fight.

If his stuff starts failing. Even if he wants to pull it all out of there. You thank him for the 7 months and move on. Figure it out. Who gets to decide he is obligated to remain in, and for how long? A bunch of liberals who are mad he doesnt want them to be able to censor twitter? Theyre waiting for this opportunity to crap on him.

No need for him to weigh in and try to negotiate peace then. Certainly not by trying to work with Putin directly on any sort of resolution. The timing of that conversation and the sats going down is certainly worthy of scrutiny. He was also paid for the starlink equipment (or at least some of it) but that didn't come out until recently.  

6 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Lets not forget, Musk is just a guy. Hes not US military or Ukraine military. Hes not a private contractor. Hes some guy with a bunch of toys who said hey! I have some walkie talkies you can play with that might help you out!

He got them this far. A war that people expected to see Ukraine trampled over in a matter of days. Instead he has helped Ukraine last 7 months and counting.

I cant see how there can be anything but gratitude expressed towards him. 

Its really not his fight.

If his stuff starts failing. Even if he wants to pull it all out of there. You thank him for the 7 months and move on. Figure it out. Who gets to decide he is obligated to remain in, and for how long? A bunch of liberals who are mad he doesnt want them to be able to censor twitter? Theyre waiting for this opportunity to crap on him.

You are aware that he didn't just give them to Ukraine, right? The US paid for them.

10 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

No need for him to weigh in and try to negotiate peace then. Certainly not by trying to work with Putin directly on any sort of resolution. The timing of that conversation and the sats going down is certainly worthy of scrutiny. He was also paid for the starlink equipment (or at least some of it) but that didn't come out until recently.  

It is suspicious.

Im not suggesting Ukraine milatary wait and see. Theres literally nothign they can do but go on with their mission as best they can with or without it.

Im saying the general public, wait and see before making assumptions and judgements.

As of now, he deserves nothing but praise for helping out.

If he got swayed by a discussion with Putin, then hes a D-head.

If Putin threatened to have him disappear, then I cant really blame him for chickening out either. Unless the US is going to offer a gigantic secret service detail for life. Musk can help the world out a lot more in doing a whole bunch of other things rather than being involved in Ukraine. If its life or death, be involved there, or help continue the world immensely in a variety of other ways... then get out of there. 

7 minutes ago, Bill said:

You are aware that he didn't just give them to Ukraine, right? The US paid for them.

Im aware that its been said in here, but not really widely publicized. 

I am not aware of the details of that deal?

Is it for a certain timeframe? Does it state that the US will take control of those sattelites, or will Musk continue to be responsible for thwarting russian cyber attacks against them? What recourse does the US have if Musk is breaching that contract? Would he really do that, and help Putin by letting these things fall in to disrepair if he is contractually obligated by the US to run these things? That wouldnt make sense. Id guess its kind of out of his hands if the US laid out money for the equipment.

 

I know Starlink managed these things right in the beginning. Somehow I doubt that after the the US paid for these things, it is still allowing Starlink employees to operate them. It seems like there would be a whole bunch of classified, confidential, or strategic stuff that the US would want control of. I suspect this is out of Musk/Starlink's hands at this point with american military's money now involved. 

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

It is suspicious.

Im not suggesting Ukraine milatary wait and see. Theres literally nothign they can do but go on with their mission as best they can with or without it.

Im saying the general public, wait and see before making assumptions and judgements.

As of now, he deserves nothing but praise for helping out.

If he got swayed by a discussion with Putin, then hes a D-head.

If Putin threatened to have him disappear, then I cant really blame him for chickening out either. Unless the US is going to offer a gigantic secret service detail for life. Musk can help the world out a lot more in doing a whole bunch of other things rather than being involved in Ukraine. If its life or death, be involved there, or help continue the world immensely in a variety of other ways... then get out of there. 

Im aware that its been said in here, but not really widely publicized. 

Musk can afford his own protection against Russia.  He's worth 3 times Russia's entire military budget.

2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Musk can afford his own protection against Russia.  He's worth 3 times Russia's entire military budget.

silly...

27 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

It is suspicious.

Im not suggesting Ukraine milatary wait and see. Theres literally nothign they can do but go on with their mission as best they can with or without it.

Im saying the general public, wait and see before making assumptions and judgements.

As of now, he deserves nothing but praise for helping out.

If he got swayed by a discussion with Putin, then hes a D-head.

If Putin threatened to have him disappear, then I cant really blame him for chickening out either. Unless the US is going to offer a gigantic secret service detail for life. Musk can help the world out a lot more in doing a whole bunch of other things rather than being involved in Ukraine. If its life or death, be involved there, or help continue the world immensely in a variety of other ways... then get out of there. 

Im aware that its been said in here, but not really widely publicized. 

I am not aware of the details of that deal?

Is it for a certain timeframe? Does it state that the US will take control of those sattelites, or will Musk continue to be responsible for thwarting russian cyber attacks against them? What recourse does the US have if Musk is breaching that contract? Would he really do that, and help Putin by letting these things fall in to disrepair if he is contractually obligated by the US to run these things? That wouldnt make sense. Id guess its kind of out of his hands if the US laid out money for the equipment.

 

I know Starlink managed these things right in the beginning. Somehow I doubt that after the the US paid for these things, it is still allowing Starlink employees to operate them. It seems like there would be a whole bunch of classified, confidential, or strategic stuff that the US would want control of. I suspect this is out of Musk/Starlink's hands at this point with american military's money now involved. 

Well, I'm not the general public. I have skin in the game. So no, I'd rather not wait and see. 

Also, no, he doesn't deserve nothing but praise. He spoke with an authoritarian dictator that authorized a war of aggression that has led to countless war crimes and crimes against humanity, and then he publicly spoke out about giving Putin an off ramp in which he retains illegal taken territory. 

Also, Putin can't threaten to have him disappear. He's a popular US citizen who has considerable wealth and influence. He could afford the cat's ass of private security details, and he assuredly already has one. Real life isn't a James Bond movie. Heads of state don't make those threats, no matter how totalitarian they are.

Also, the deal was for a considerable chunk of money. And the US doesn't just take over the infrastructure. The US paid for both a product and a service for a third party.  There aren't massive security concerns with them in terms of super classified materials being transmitted.  They're used as communication nodes. Also, are you really going to ask if Musk would breach a contract? Really? Musk breaching a contract?

It's not out of Musk's/SpaceX hands at this point. The government paid them for a product and to operate a service. 

5 minutes ago, Bill said:

Well, I'm not the general public. I have skin in the game. So no, I'd rather not wait and see. 

Also, no, he doesn't deserve nothing but praise. He spoke with an authoritarian dictator that authorized a war of aggression that has led to countless war crimes and crimes against humanity, and then he publicly spoke out about giving Putin an off ramp in which he retains illegal taken territory. 

Also, Putin can't threaten to have him disappear. He's a popular US citizen who has considerable wealth and influence. He could afford the cat's ass of private security details, and he assuredly already has one. Real life isn't a James Bond movie. Heads of state don't make those threats, no matter how totalitarian they are.

Also, the deal was for a considerable chunk of money. And the US doesn't just take over the infrastructure. The US paid for both a product and a service for a third party.  There aren't massive security concerns with them in terms of super classified materials being transmitted.  They're used as communication nodes. Also, are you really going to ask if Musk would breach a contract? Really? Musk breaching a contract?

It's not out of Musk's/SpaceX hands at this point. The government paid them for a product and to operate a service. 

 I think we don't know a lot of what you are acting as though we know.

 

 

1 minute ago, dawkdaballhawk said:

 

 

It was there 7 years ago?

 

Wow.

 

Breaking Effing news!!

 

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

 I think we don't know a lot of what you are acting as though we know.

Everything I've posted about is publicly available via the news.

 

 

 

 

So either Ian Bremmer or Elon Musk is lying. Take your bets.  

58 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

It is suspicious.

Im not suggesting Ukraine milatary wait and see. Theres literally nothign they can do but go on with their mission as best they can with or without it.

Im saying the general public, wait and see before making assumptions and judgements.

As of now, he deserves nothing but praise for helping out.

If he got swayed by a discussion with Putin, then hes a D-head.

If Putin threatened to have him disappear, then I cant really blame him for chickening out either. Unless the US is going to offer a gigantic secret service detail for life. Musk can help the world out a lot more in doing a whole bunch of other things rather than being involved in Ukraine. If its life or death, be involved there, or help continue the world immensely in a variety of other ways... then get out of there. 

Im aware that its been said in here, but not really widely publicized. 

I am not aware of the details of that deal?

Is it for a certain timeframe? Does it state that the US will take control of those sattelites, or will Musk continue to be responsible for thwarting russian cyber attacks against them? What recourse does the US have if Musk is breaching that contract? Would he really do that, and help Putin by letting these things fall in to disrepair if he is contractually obligated by the US to run these things? That wouldnt make sense. Id guess its kind of out of his hands if the US laid out money for the equipment.

 

I know Starlink managed these things right in the beginning. Somehow I doubt that after the the US paid for these things, it is still allowing Starlink employees to operate them. It seems like there would be a whole bunch of classified, confidential, or strategic stuff that the US would want control of. I suspect this is out of Musk/Starlink's hands at this point with american military's money now involved. 

I literally posted the link to the report.

4 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I literally posted the link to the report.

Nice job.

10 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

So either Ian Bremmer or Elon Musk is lying. Take your bets.  

To be honest, I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt had he not been caught lying so many times as of late.

10 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

So either Ian Bremmer or Elon Musk is lying. Take your bets.  

Bremmer has been caught fabricating quotes before.

Seems way more plausible that Musk didn’t have random negotiations with Putin.

13 minutes ago, TEW said:

Bremmer has been caught fabricating quotes before.

Seems way more plausible that Musk didn’t have random negotiations with Putin.

It's a good thing Musk hasn't been caught lying recently either, amirite?