October 12, 20223 yr 3 minutes ago, TEW said: It’s harder to take the moral high ground when you knowingly and purposefully prolong a war that gets tens of thousands of people killed purely out of geopolitical interest. I would debate purposeful. Whats the better plan?
October 12, 20223 yr 20 minutes ago, vikas83 said: The problem is there is no better option. If we tried to force Ukraine to the negotiating table, we'd strengthen Putin while simultaneously unraveling all the work we've done in re-establishing the NATO alliance and western order after Trump tried to burn it to the ground. And...we run the risk of Zelensky defying us, or at least calling our bluff. We tell him to negotiate or no more aid, he says no and leaks it -- now, we look like idiots and we can't actually cut off aid and allow greater slaughter. The other extreme is committing NATO forces to rout Russia, which is insane. Show me the better option. I’m not sure there is a better option. It’s certainly the safest political option. Just makes my stomach turn to see another forever war, especially when a volatile country with a bunch of nukes is involved. 1 minute ago, ToastJenkins said: I would debate purposeful. Whats the better plan? As I said above, I’m not sure there is a better option. But it seems those options aren’t even going to be explored, as remote as they may be.
October 12, 20223 yr 5 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said: He seems to think the other option is nuclear war most days… No, nuclear war becomes the option when NATO forces start fighting Russian forces directly, as so many insane people in here have clamored for…
October 12, 20223 yr 11 minutes ago, TEW said: It’s harder to take the moral high ground when you knowingly and purposefully prolong a war that gets tens of thousands of people killed purely out of geopolitical interest. So its better to simply let them be overrun by a country they don't share the same values with that is run by a dictator? If they negotiate now and give Russia what they want, do you not expect Russia to try this same tactic again at a later date? I certainly do.
October 12, 20223 yr 5 minutes ago, TEW said: I’m not sure there is a better option. It’s certainly the safest political option. Just makes my stomach turn to see another forever war, especially when a volatile country with a bunch of nukes is involved. As I said above, I’m not sure there is a better option. But it seems those options aren’t even going to be explored, as remote as they may be. Collateral damage to be sure, but no clear better plan you stick with what working. Cant let russia out now
October 12, 20223 yr 16 minutes ago, TEW said: It’s harder to take the moral high ground when you knowingly and purposefully prolong a war that gets tens of thousands of people killed purely out of geopolitical interest. This is why people think you support Russia. You are acting like we started this conflict and are prolonging it for our own benefit. You have no plan to stop the war, but you are sure we are doing it wrong.
October 12, 20223 yr 3 minutes ago, Toastrel said: This is why people think you support Russia. You are acting like we started this conflict and are prolonging it for our own benefit. You have no plan to stop the war, but you are sure we are doing it wrong. When have I ever said anything remotely close to us having started it? That’s just laughable. Prolonging it for our own benefit? Well, yeah, as said it is most certainly in our geopolitical interests to do so. And you’d be a fool if you believe there aren’t people in high places pounding the table making this exact argument. You yourself said we do it all the time. Sure we are doing it wrong? I’ve said repeatedly that Biden has done a good job. I said above I’m not sure there is a better option. Why do you feel the need to fabricate things?
October 12, 20223 yr 48 minutes ago, vikas83 said: The problem is there is no better option. If we tried to force Ukraine to the negotiating table, we'd strengthen Putin while simultaneously unraveling all the work we've done in re-establishing the NATO alliance and western order after Trump tried to burn it to the ground. And...we run the risk of Zelensky defying us, or at least calling our bluff. We tell him to negotiate or no more aid, he says no and leaks it -- now, we look like idiots and we can't actually cut off aid and allow greater slaughter. The other extreme is committing NATO forces to rout Russia, which is insane. Show me the better option. Just say F it and let them murder each other.
October 12, 20223 yr I can see they no longer teach the truth about Vietnam in schools. In the end, the US will stop giving AF.
October 12, 20223 yr Honestly to say that the US is "prolonging the conflict" is a bit nonsensical. Without western aid, the war would inevitably go the same way it is now, just with a longer timeline and many more deaths. No one is forcing Ukraine to fight back. They're doing it on their own. Are the weapons helping? Absolutely, but the key for the Ukrainians is western tactics and thinking. You can give someone all the guns in the world, but it's pointless if they're not using them correctly. The only additional deaths created by the US giving aid is on the Russian side of the line. Also I guarantee that Ukraine has absolutely zero want to negotiate. That drive just does not exist with them. So, when it's suggested that the US is somehow causing Ukrainian bodies to pile up, I just don't buy it. Without the US, they'd be piling up at a higher rate, and they wouldn't stop fighting. Trust me there is a ton of manpower left on the Ukrainian side that hasn't touched the war.
October 12, 20223 yr 25 minutes ago, Toastrel said: This is why people think you support Russia. You are acting like we started this conflict and are prolonging it for our own benefit. You have no plan to stop the war, but you are sure we are doing it wrong. According to him, we're purposefully prolonging the war but we also don't have any better options , so much like he did in the pizzagate thread, he's once again "just asking questions".
October 12, 20223 yr The domino theory is now largely discredited, having failed to take into account the character of the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong struggle in the Vietnam War.
October 12, 20223 yr That's cool and all, but without teeth to back it up Putin just laughs in our faces.
October 12, 20223 yr Earlier this year the US released oil from its reserve to curb oil prices. The Saudis & OPEC didn't respond; instead waited for the US to deplete its oil reserve to the lowest level since 1984 & then boom OPEC+ just announced a 2million oil production cut per day.
October 12, 20223 yr Prolonging the war... I guess that's what one way to put it. Others might say preventing the genocide of millions of Ukrainians and the total destruction of a sovereign nation by a hostile enemy.
October 12, 20223 yr Really weird how the guy who spent months calling Putin a genius with a perfectly calculated plan to take advantage of a weak US president is now once again being accused of being a Putin apologist after claiming the US is purposefully prolonging the war that Russia started. I just don't know what to make of it, hopefully someone can help me connect the dots on this mystery.
October 12, 20223 yr 36 minutes ago, dawkdaballhawk said: outskirts That is the exact word they used, Abra. Great job!
October 12, 20223 yr "The Iron Dome is not effective against the modern missiles with which Russia attacks Ukraine," Elkin told Kan Reshet Bet. INN But the crap the UK is sending will?
October 13, 20223 yr On the 90K estimate, didn’t Russia start the war by mobilizing about a 180K-strong force? Would assume they’ve introduced reinforcements since then but that’s an insane percentage. What sends shivers down my spine is the number of Ukrainian losses. Nobody seems to be reporting those which hints at astronomical numbers.
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