1 minute ago, toolg said:

Easier to blame Germany and their overreaction to the nuclear disaster in Japan... And how they complicated today's response when they entered energy agreements with Russia.  How frequent are major earthquakes in Germany?

Either way, once again Germany and Japan work together to screw over the western world.

Just now, DiPros said:

Just trying to follow.  Germany just sanctioned the pipeline from Russia., so who will supply their LNG now?  Or will they go back to fossil fuels

They still get natural gas from Russia through existing pipelines. See post above.

18 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

It's put up or shut up time for the west. It appears the EU is balking at cutting Russian banks off from SWIFT, given their exposure to Russia. This would be the most crippling thing we could do -- Biden needs to get the EU on board.

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/eu-unlikely-cut-russia-off-swift-now-sources-say-2022-02-24/

EDIT: When we threatened this in 2014, the Russians thought it would cut GDP by 5%. It's that impactful.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/all-about-swift-one-possible-path-to-sanction-russia/2022/02/22/f5cc9c80-9425-11ec-bb31-74fc06c0a3a5_story.html

Freedom isn't free.  We've been living in the lap of luxury for a while now.  Time to do the right thing to preserve the western way  of life I'm afraid. 

Just now, Bacarty2 said:

The only thats crazy to me is, the world is ending, economy is crashing and everyone still worried about orangeman. 

Get a grip.

Just now, Bacarty2 said:

keep moving the goal posts. 

Invading a country with little to now causalities and little to no punishment is creative, intelligent and powerful. Which by definition is genius.

I'm not moving anything. I'm correcting your false analogies. 

And it has nothing to do with genius.

 

Just now, Bacarty2 said:

Again, you can be a good guy who's a genius and a bad guy whos a genius. 

Ok. That still doesn't matter. Manufacturing a pretense for a war and invading a sovereign nation with kill-lists in hand to take out opposition to your geopolitical desires is evil, not "genius". 

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

They still get natural gas from Russia through existing pipelines. See post above.

I believe some of those pipelines route through Ukraine though, do they not?

Been a while since I've seen a Breitbart article.

2 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

Been a while since I've seen a Breitbart article.

they may not post the articles very often...but this place is definitely infested with a few maroons whose world views were shaped by what they read on breitbart.   

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

LOL. 

I get it. but it's still shocking to me that all the crap thats going on RIGHT NOW people are still worried about orangeman. 

 

I don't see anyone "worried about him". Just pushback against the idea that he would be tougher on Russia. I only worry about him to the extent that he has a chance to be president again in 3 years. God help us all if that happens. 

17 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Backing my earlier comments about "wHy DoEZ pUtiN iNVaDe wHeN dEMoCrAts aRE iN ThE wHItE hOusE HmMmMMMMm??!?!" that resident mouth breathers seem to think is some kind of gotcha, Putin and Xi met 20 days ago just before the Olympics. 

 

In Xi and China, Putin had the strong backstop he needed to take this action now. China and Russia have long been friendly, but the geopolitical coordination and economic support between the two countries had not been strong enough until recently to allow Putin to take this sort of move.

I know this doesn't feel as satisfying as "it's because Biden is weak!", but facts are unkind to Republican's lizard brain needs of late.

It is not because Biden is weak...it is becase the West is weak...or rather too focused on it's comfortable way of life...especially Europe is completely hypocrite here...on one side we speak empty words how decisive our answer will be...then we announce sanctions which Russians are lying on the floor laughing when they hear it and then we are buying gas and oil from who? Russia...until this trade is  stopped completely Russians have free hands...sad but that's how it is

3 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

LOL. 

I get it. but it's still shocking to me that all the crap thats going on RIGHT NOW people are still worried about orangeman. 

 

Eh, he's still relevant because he will be running in 2024. 

11 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

2 points:

1. They didn't cancel NS2. They delayed approval. The pipeline is already built and just waiting final certification from the Germans. 

2. NS2 isn't about incremental gas flowing to Germany, it's about Russia sending gas around Ukraine to avoid paying something like $1 billion per year in fees to Ukraine. The Germans are still getting all the gas they need through existing pipelines. The point of Gazprom building NS2 was to avoid the toll payments to Ukraine in order to boost long-term profitability. 

So all the Germans have done so far is stop the Russians (Gazprom) from increasing cash flow by $1 billion. But...if you invade Ukraine and install a puppet government, you can cancel the $1 billion in annual payments and get the same thing. Which is what Putin is doing.

The major producers/exporters of natural gas to Western Europe are Russia, Belarus (under Russian control).... and Ukraine. (Also Norway, Middle East/North Africa, and shipped LNG from North America). So Putin's Ukraine grab is trying to corner the market. Putin wants to disrupt/control a larger share of their energy. If Putin controls Ukraine, NS2 doesn't matter, and vice versa.

3 minutes ago, Vlad67 said:

It is not because Biden is weak...it is becase the West is weak...or rather too focused on it's comfortable way of life...especially Europe is completely hypocrite here...on one side we speak empty words how decisive our answer will be...then we announce sanctions which Russians are lying on the floor laughing when they hear it and then we are buying gas and oil from who? Russia...until this trade is  stopped completely Russians have free hands...sad but that's how it is

How do you know Russians are laughing Vlad?

 

1 minute ago, Paul852 said:

How do you know Russians are laughing Vlad?

Because I am not blind Paul

1 hour ago, Gannan said:

Taiwan is next on the menu. It'll at least be entertaining to watch you dopey right wingers go from "China is the real enemy" to "Just give China what they want! Who cares about Taiwan!?". Then blame Biden for the high cost of anything with a chip in it. 

I'm a "right winger." While I do not agree with US military intervention in Ukraine, I would have the opposite feeling about Taiwan.

Just now, Vlad67 said:

Because I am not blind Paul

It was a joke because your name is Vlad. 

Just now, Bacarty2 said:

Let's hope we get through the next 3 years first before he ruins our country lol

We'll be fine for the most part. It's just that we aren't a super power anymore. We've become a second rate power that's weakened over time. That's not just on Biden. It's on Biden, Trump, Obama, and W, and all of us too. The America I grew up with, "the shining city on a hill" isn't what it once was. 

5 minutes ago, Vlad67 said:

It is not because Biden is weak...it is becase the West is weak...or rather too focused on it's comfortable way of life...especially Europe is completely hypocrite here...on one side we speak empty words how decisive our answer will be...then we announce sanctions which Russians are lying on the floor laughing when they hear it and then we are buying gas and oil from who? Russia...until this trade is  stopped completely Russians have free hands...sad but that's how it is

I agree that the west being soft and unwilling to experience a fraction of pain to preserve the principles we claim to hold dear is a major factor in how we've chosen to respond.

My argument is specifically for the simpletons that want to make this about Biden's response and claiming it wouldn't have happened if Trump were president, which is bollocks.

Just now, Bacarty2 said:

Again, Ukraine and the black sea will be part of Russia in a week. Taiwan will be part of China by the end of March. 

We're probably going to have a monster economic collapse stateside and we're talking/thinking of a guy who may run in 3 years. 

I mean lets say Trump does get re-elected, whats the worst that happens, Russia invades Ukrain...o wait

We'll probably have to learn to speak Russian.

2 hours ago, Bacarty2 said:

Too late. 

We (as americans) cant touch Russia or go after them. They have the money, the power and the respect. We just have to let them have most of Europe basically. and no im not kidding

 

1 minute ago, Outlaw said:

I'm a "right winger." While I do not agree with US military intervention in Ukraine, I would have the opposite feeling about Taiwan.

I don't know that we have the stomach for it. I hope I'm wrong. I really don't want my children to grow up in a world where Fascist Russia and Communist China are the dominant powers holding the world by the balls. 

13 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

You're right bud. Geniuses cant be evil. 

 

You're willful misinterpretation of my point is noted.

I need to stop wasting time arguing with idiots.

20 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

2 points:

1. They didn't cancel NS2. They delayed approval. The pipeline is already built and just waiting final certification from the Germans. 

2. NS2 isn't about incremental gas flowing to Germany, it's about Russia sending gas around Ukraine to avoid paying something like $1 billion per year in fees to Ukraine. The Germans are still getting all the gas they need through existing pipelines. The point of Gazprom building NS2 was to avoid the toll payments to Ukraine in order to boost long-term profitability. 

So all the Germans have done so far is stop the Russians (Gazprom) from increasing cash flow by $1 billion. But...if you invade Ukraine and install a puppet government, you can cancel the $1 billion in annual payments and get the same thing. Which is what Putin is doing.

Point one is semantics, the pipeline will not operate and point 2 doesn't argue that it won't affect the German economy.

Germany is not the sticking point to wider sanctions, the UK will be the big sticking point in Europe, it already muffed it's own sanctions.

 

20 minutes ago, DiPros said:

Just trying to follow.  Germany just sanctioned the pipeline from Russia., so who will supply their LNG now?  Or will they go back to fossil fuels

Everybody else (who will supply gas?) and yes (fossil fuels). Short term they can do fine without Russian gas. Long-term? I don't know.