October 5, 20232 yr 3 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: This continues to be the dumbest argument Ive read in a while. I am an individual taxpayer you absolute moron. I pay taxes just like you or anyone else, regardless of the state in which I reside. How can you be so dumb? You pay federal taxes but they come back to your state. They do not go to Ukraine or any other federal initiative. You are complaining about the $75 billion (mostly old equipment not $) that the federal government is giving to Ukraine. None of that is from federal taxes you pay. Your net contribution is essentially zero. Your argument is based on the literal idea that you pay taxes, which of course you do. Your complaint is how federal funds are being spent. The taxes you pay end up in your state and do not contribute to federal spending. You pay no taxes that are connected to Ukraine or any other federal budget. You are complaining about how other people's taxes are being spent.
October 5, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, Mike31mt said: Im 100% ok with my tax dollars going to people who actually need it. Youre making a dumb, incoherent argument because I dared question our devotion to Ukraine. Go cry in Tate As I have written before, there is no devotion to Ukraine. This is a self-serving proxy war that cripples the Russian war machine and and as a side benefit, boosts the economy related to the miliary industrial complex. There is nothing emotional about it on this side. You on the other hand don't "like" what is being done but you can't articulate why.
October 5, 20232 yr Just now, Next_Up said: As I have written before, there is no devotion to Ukraine. This is a self-serving proxy war that cripples the Russian war machine and and as a side benefit, boosts the economy related to the miliary industrial complex. There is nothing emotional about it on this side. You on the other hand don't "like" what is being done but you can't articulate why. Its self-serving for politicians and companies like Halliburton. Not sure at all how it benefits everyday citizens like you and me. I could find hundreds of better uses for $75B than hoping this cash trickles down from an industry that definitely doesnt need it, and will almost surely pocket it all. We were never threatened by the "Russian war machine" at all, its painfully evident now. That is just propaganda.
October 5, 20232 yr 8 minutes ago, Next_Up said: You pay federal taxes but they come back to your state. They do not go to Ukraine or any other federal initiative. You are complaining about the $75 billion (mostly old equipment not $) that the federal government is giving to Ukraine. None of that is from federal taxes you pay. Your net contribution is essentially zero. Your argument is based on the literal idea that you pay taxes, which of course you do. Your complaint is how federal funds are being spent. The taxes you pay end up in your state and do not contribute to federal spending. You pay no taxes that are connected to Ukraine or any other federal budget. You are complaining about how other people's taxes are being spent. Ok so where does the money come from then? Magic? If none of the $75B comes from taxes, where does it come from? And if your answer is "equipment," then what was used to buy that equipment? Federal. Tax. Dollars. Say it. And yes some of those taxes end up in my state. Where were they before??? How did they get there? Youre talking in circles because Im right.
October 5, 20232 yr 38 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: Articulate what??? What are you asking me about? The US govt has spent $75B of our tax dollars in Ukraine. Do you disagree? Ok, last time..... In the (nebulous) amount that you keep stating, what was that actually spent on that is coming out of the 2022 & 2023 budgets. Answers like "EvEn tHE gOVenMenT DoESNt now" doesn't cut it.
October 5, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, paco said: Ok, last time..... In the (nebulous) amount that you keep stating, what was that actually spent on that is coming out of the 2022-2023 budget. Answers like "EvEn tHE gOVenMenT DoESNt now" doesn't cut it. Who cares which budget year it comes out of? That is beside the point. You guys are acting like money isnt fungible. Like the fed govt. MUST spend $75B (which isnt nebulous, its from news reports) on weapons and ammunition this year, and since we have no other wars to spend it on, we might as well send it to Ukraine. The fact remains that the govt has taken $75B worth of assets/resources/however you want to refer to it out of the tiller and sent it to another country never to be seen again or repaid in any way. Those could EASILY be diverted elsewhere. Somehow they found it lying around, so by definition they could send it somewhere else as easily as Ukraine, correct?
October 5, 20232 yr 14 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: Who cares which budget year it comes out of? That is beside the point. I can't read your post beyond this. You are whining about all this "spending" yet dismissing the notion that the aid is coming from items that are bought, paid for and actively being replaced by more advanced weaponry. You are literally trying to have it both ways so you can whine about Biden. Guess what, the seized weapons from Iran that we are sending them will also count toward the $75B total or whatever the current tab is as well.
October 5, 20232 yr 3 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: Who cares which budget year it comes out of? That is beside the point. You guys are acting like money isnt fungible. Like the fed govt. MUST spend $75B (which isnt nebulous, its from news reports) on weapons and ammunition this year, and since we have no other wars to spend it on, we might as well send it to Ukraine. The fact remains that the govt has taken $75B worth of assets/resources/however you want to refer to it out of the tiller and sent it to another country never to be seen again or repaid in any way. Those could EASILY be diverted elsewhere. Somehow they found it lying around, so by definition they could send it somewhere else as easily as Ukraine, correct? Yes, the federal government spent these resources, none of which are associated with any federal taxes you paid. YOU, don't understand fungibility. Collectively, the residents of your state gave a glass of water to the federal government and the federal government dipped into its big fungible pool of money and gave your state the glass of water back. Net zero contribution. You are complaining about how other people's taxes are being spent. You've proven it is beyond your understanding and that you are fixated on criticizing something to which you do not contribute. Corporate non profits are barred from participating in the political process because they don't pay taxes. There should be the same rule for net federal taxes paid by states. You reside in a socialist welfare State that floats on the backs of all other hard working Americans and you have the 1st Amendment right to yap away like you have a basis for a complaint. You should just thank the rest of us for the sugat*t that makes your pathetic existence possible.
October 5, 20232 yr Mike: 41 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: Articulated one fact? I just said $75B to Ukraine. Also Mike: On 10/3/2023 at 1:00 PM, Mike31mt said: Sure its $75B, or whatever the current tab is. Also, Also Mike: On 10/3/2023 at 9:23 AM, Mike31mt said: That's the $100B question. You tell me, what have we really bought??
October 5, 20232 yr 38 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: We were never threatened by the "Russian war machine" at all, its painfully evident now. That is just propaganda. dollars well spent proving this fact. no ?
October 5, 20232 yr 7 minutes ago, paco said: I can't read your post beyond this. You are whining about all this "spending" yet dismissing the notion that the aid is coming from items that are bought, paid for and actively being replaced by more advanced weaponry. You are literally trying to have it both ways so you can whine about Biden. Guess what, the seized weapons from Iran that we are sending them will also count toward the $75B total or whatever the current tab is as well. No, lets say there was no Ukraine war. Would they still upgrade the weaponry? If so, what happens to the old stuff? It has a value. It was paid for by taxes. If not, we're literally just doing it because we have an excuse to do so. The seized weapons. Those have a value. Why is it totally out of the question that some of these funds that they pulled from every corner of the govt budget be used on actual Americans?
October 5, 20232 yr 17 minutes ago, Next_Up said: Yes, the federal government spent these resources, none of which are associated with any federal taxes you paid. YOU, don't understand fungibility. Collectively, the residents of your state gave a glass of water to the federal government and the federal government dipped into its big fungible pool of money and gave your state the glass of water back. Net zero contribution. You are complaining about how other people's taxes are being spent. You've proven it is beyond your understanding and that you are fixated on criticizing something to which you do not contribute. Corporate non profits are barred from participating in the political process because they don't pay taxes. There should be the same rule for net federal taxes paid by states. You reside in a socialist welfare State that floats on the backs of all other hard working Americans and you have the 1st Amendment right to yap away like you have a basis for a complaint. You should just thank the rest of us for the sugat*t that makes your pathetic existence possible. Lol man are you drunk? I dont pool together my federal taxes with every other taxpayer in WV and write a big check to the Fed. My taxes are collected individually, go to the Fed, and then go a million different places. I get it, you hate WV and every other state that receives federal dollars. But that doesn't take away my right to question and critique how my tax dollars, which are deducted from my paycheck, are spent.
October 5, 20232 yr 5 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: No, lets say there was no Ukraine war. Would they still upgrade the weaponry? Uh... yeah. Thus the word actively. 5 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: If so, what happens to the old stuff? It has a value. It was paid for by taxes. Snarky answer: Do you keep your 1972 pinto around because it was bought and paid for? Intelligent answer: On 10/2/2023 at 3:46 PM, Next_Up said: You really need to learn how the US economy works. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-27/slowing-us-economy-propped-up-by-ukraine-driven-defense-splurge#xj4y7vzkg. It is a self-serving doctrine, we don't care about other countries outside of the traditional allies and that is why the US hasn't done this whenever a global conflict props up. It is a self-serving proxy war against one or the country's two main foes and it fuels money into the military industrial complex which is our largest national industry. It create jobs and ruins Russia's military at the same time. TD;DR: Utilize it to serve our interests abroad to nations where those weapons have greater value to them than to us. 5 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: The seized weapons. Those have a value. And a lot less value than our more advanced weaponry.
October 5, 20232 yr 18 minutes ago, paco said: Mike: Also Mike: Also, Also Mike: Youre acting like "nebulous" means somewhere between $1 and $1T. Its around $75B. Its an arse load of money. What difference does this really make? Where are you going with this argument??
October 5, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: Lol man are you drunk? I dont pool together my federal taxes with every other taxpayer in WV and write a big check to the Fed. My taxes are collected individually, go to the Fed, and then go a million different places. I get it, you hate WV and every other state that receives federal dollars. But that doesn't take away my right to question and critique how my tax dollars, which are deducted from my paycheck, are spent. You don’t get it. I don’t hate WV. I have contempt for people like you. There is a difference.
October 5, 20232 yr Just now, paco said: Uh... yeah. Thus the word actively. Snarky answer: Do you keep your 1972 pinto around because it was bought and paid for? Intelligent answer: And a lot less value than our more advanced weaponry. It. Doesn't. Matter. It has value. Value that could be used here instead of Ukraine. No matter what FY it came from, what appropriation, what it was ear-marked for.... They found it to send it to Ukraine. But its totally unreasonable that it be used for American citizens, somehow?
October 5, 20232 yr 4 minutes ago, Next_Up said: You don’t get it. I don’t hate WV. I have contempt for people like you. There is a difference. People like me, who merely would like to hold my fed govt accountable for where my tax dollars go? What youre saying is totally ridiculous, because my state has a lot of poor people I have no right to say where a sizable portion of my income goes? And before you offer another stupid answer, think of it this way. Whatever money comes back to WV, they could just as easily pull it away from ish like Ukraine and send even more money back to my state. So your argument is literally moot, and just a veiled attack on poor states.
October 5, 20232 yr 3 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: It. Doesn't. Matter. It has value. Value that could be used here instead of Ukraine. No matter what FY it came from, what appropriation, what it was ear-marked for.... They found it to send it to Ukraine. But its totally unreasonable that it be used for American citizens, somehow? What is a better use for those diminishing assets? Give them to nations where their interests benefit us Use them instead of more advanced weapons for our conflicts, losing us more lives than necessary and potentially battles. Don't use them, let them sit in a desert somewhere so future generations can look at them and say "neat!"
October 5, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, paco said: What is a better use for those diminishing assets? Give them to nations where their interests benefit us Use them instead of more advanced weapons for our conflicts, losing us more lives than necessary and potentially battles. we could use the funds to build the wall !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 5, 20232 yr 59 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: Its self-serving for politicians and companies like Halliburton. Not sure at all how it benefits everyday citizens like you and me. I could find hundreds of better uses for $75B than hoping this cash trickles down from an industry that definitely doesnt need it, and will almost surely pocket it all. We were never threatened by the "Russian war machine" at all, its painfully evident now. That is just propaganda. Halliburton is a defense logistics company. We actually have to be at war supporting troops on the ground for them to make money. What’s going on with assets going to Ukraine supports actual arms manufacturers. Just helping you out in advance of the next idea you parrot as if you know something.
October 5, 20232 yr https://headlineusa.com/zelenskyy-freaking-out-after-sugar-daddy-mccarthy-expelled-as-speaker-report/ Zelenskyy ‘Freaking Out’ After Sugar Daddy McCarthy Expelled as Speaker: Report
October 5, 20232 yr 4 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said: we could use the funds to build the wall !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They shuld take the T-72s we sent to Ukraine, stack and weld them together to keep the Mexicans out1!!1!
October 5, 20232 yr 5 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: People like me, who merely would like to hold my fed govt accountable for where my tax dollars go? What youre saying is totally ridiculous, because my state has a lot of poor people I have no right to say where a sizable portion of my income goes? And before you offer another stupid answer, think of it this way. Whatever money comes back to WV, they could just as easily pull it away from ish like Ukraine and send even more money back to my state. So your argument is literally moot, and just a veiled attack on poor states. Your state and federal tax dollars go to West Virginia. I’m with you in holding the federal government accountable for that. Those tax dollars could be better spent.
October 5, 20232 yr I really can't believe people are complaining we are sending stuff like 1970s soviet tanks that we have in our possession to Ukraine Uhh, yeah, what about the Mil Mi-17 helicopters, smart guy?!?!
October 5, 20232 yr 11 minutes ago, paco said: What is a better use for those diminishing assets? Give them to nations where their interests benefit us Use them instead of more advanced weapons for our conflicts, losing us more lives than necessary and potentially battles. Don't use them, let them sit in a desert somewhere so future generations can look at them and say "neat!" Sell them instead of giving them away, use that money to feed and house homeless veterans
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