February 28, 2025Feb 28 Just now, DEagle7 said: If you're looking for context for Zelensky's behavior in that room you need to go back a bit further than 40 minutes. I personally would have wanted to take a flamethrower to that while Fing room all things considered. I'm impressed he stayed composed as long as he did. I’m sure the rest of the ladies in your book club agree with you,
February 28, 2025Feb 28 12 minutes ago, The_Omega said: "Vance interjects to make the reasonable point that Biden called Putin names and that didn't get us anywhere. The Zelensky/Trump dynamic was calm and stable. It was when Vance spoke that Zelensky started to interrogate him." Yeaaaaa that's some nice spin. Zelensky didn't "interrogate" Vance, that's ridiculous. After Vance made his point about trying diplomacy, Zelensky gave a timeline of Russia invading Ukraine, and Russia braking the ceasefire deal they had with Russia. He then asks Vance "what kind of diplomacy are you speaking about? What do you mean". Yeah, that's not an "interrogation", that's a very valid question. How can you have "diplomacy" with a side that has conducted and unprovoked invasion of a neighboring country? Vance then responded by saying it was disrespectful for Zelensky to come to the oval office and try to litigate this in front of the American media. It was Vance, not Zelensky, who turned it into a contentious meeting and started slinging insults, and then him and Trump must have thrown out the "you haven't thanked us enough" line about a dozen times.
February 28, 2025Feb 28 4 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: You're a traitorous POS. Traitor to who, Ukraine? Do you read what you write?
February 28, 2025Feb 28 2 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said: "Vance interjects to make the reasonable point that Biden called Putin names and that didn't get us anywhere. The Zelensky/Trump dynamic was calm and stable. It was when Vance spoke that Zelensky started to interrogate him." Yeaaaaa that's some nice spin. Zelensky didn't "interrogate" Vance, that's ridiculous. After Vance made his point about trying diplomacy, Zelensky gave a timeline of Russia invading Ukraine, and Russia braking the ceasefire deal they had with Russia. He then asks Vance "what kind of diplomacy are you speaking about? What do you mean". Yeah, that's not an "interrogation", that's a very valid question. How can you have "diplomacy" with a side that has conducted and unprovoked invasion of a neighboring country? Vance then responded by saying it was disrespectful for Zelensky to come to the oval office and try to litigate this in front of the American media. Vance's point was fair, 4 years of ripping Putin got us to where we were on 1/20. A never ending slaughter of Ukrainians. I got Zelenskyy wants every point made the way he thinks they should be made, again, I sympathize with the guy, but that's not the way the world works. His country is dependent on US and others to survive and posturing is not doing Ukraine any good.
February 28, 2025Feb 28 1 hour ago, DrPhilly said: A compromise with 20 years of no NATO or something plus all those other conditions would be acceptable for both sides. Someone committed to Western values in the White House would be demanding Putin back down under threat of continuous and deep American support for the people of Ukraine. Russia would lose this war on the long term with support for Ukraine and a fast track to the UN. Trump is betraying allies and Western values. And so is everyone who supports this.
February 28, 2025Feb 28 2 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said: I actually agree that Europe is not really that stable at the moment. There are problems with extreme immigration (Germany), a rise in extreme right wing parties, dissent amongst the EU countries, Putin friendly leaders like Orban etc.. And Europe was way too dependent on the US military, which they cannot count on any longer. It might actually be a blessing in disguise to break the dependency of the US and get their act together with protecting their interests and territories. 100% agree but this poster has no idea of what a no-go zone is when he throws that out there. The ones in Sweden are not good but still a far cry from the big city US ghettos.
February 28, 2025Feb 28 9 minutes ago, BBE said: The general….. Well fack, why didn’t you say it was the general? That’s changes everything.
February 28, 2025Feb 28 22 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: Yeah, he is 100% transactional. The problem this time is that that term is a deal breaker. Trump has plenty of room to make all sorts of demands but he can't make that one which no doubt comes from Putin in any case. It is a problem given that zelensky can't sign the mineral rights away, it would be insane on his part. Trump will want at least that now. Further, Zelensky has to demand the lost territories back for his own image. Putin cannot completely withdraw without irreparable damaging his mythos which could allow the critical mass to form in Russia to facilitate his removal.
February 28, 2025Feb 28 1 minute ago, Tnt4philly said: Well fack, why didn’t you say it was the general? That’s changes everything. Mike Minihan. Might want to educate yourself.
February 28, 2025Feb 28 7 minutes ago, The_Omega said: I’m sure the rest of the ladies in your book club agree with you, The whole "you're a girl" angle doesn't really land when you're acting like a quivering complacent puss in the face of a foreign enemy. Just FYI.
February 28, 2025Feb 28 4 minutes ago, BBE said: It is a problem given that zelensky can't sign the mineral rights away, it would be insane on his part. Trump will want at least that now. Further, Zelensky has to demand the lost territories back for his own image. Putin cannot completely withdraw without irreparable damaging his mythos which could allow the critical mass to form in Russia to facilitate his outer. He will sign away parts of the mineral rights but he MUST have a security agreement from the US. That's the only term that is non negotiable and that's the deal breaker.
February 28, 2025Feb 28 7 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said: "Vance interjects to make the reasonable point that Biden called Putin names and that didn't get us anywhere. The Zelensky/Trump dynamic was calm and stable. It was when Vance spoke that Zelensky started to interrogate him." Yeaaaaa that's some nice spin. Zelensky didn't "interrogate" Vance, that's ridiculous. After Vance made his point about trying diplomacy, Zelensky gave a timeline of Russia invading Ukraine, and Russia braking the ceasefire deal they had with Russia. He then asks Vance "what kind of diplomacy are you speaking about? What do you mean". Yeah, that's not an "interrogation", that's a very valid question. How can you have "diplomacy" with a side that has conducted and unprovoked invasion of a neighboring country? Vance then responded by saying it was disrespectful for Zelensky to come to the oval office and try to litigate this in front of the American media. It was Vance, not Zelensky, who turned it into a contentious meeting and started slinging insults, and then him and Trump must have thrown out the "you haven't thanked us enough" line about a dozen times. Yep, that’s my take it on it too…Zelensky made the point that they have tried diplomacy with Putin and he just breaks it. It’s the whole point for Ukraine - signing something without security guarantees just means Poo-tin will go again. Vance didn’t like that and started attacking Zelensky and wouldn’t let him respond to the questions he was throwing. It’s par for the course for this weak administration. All they care about is looking and sounding tough in front of the media so their useful idiots can lap it up. Where Zelensky went wrong was not knowing this but he needs to come out of this with a security agreement or that deal is worth about the same as the TP I wiped my ass with this morning.
February 28, 2025Feb 28 Just now, DrPhilly said: He will sign away parts of the mineral rights away but he MUST have a security agreement from the US. That's the only term that is non negotiable and that's the deal breaker. At this point I worry the ship has sailed. The security agreement has the same chance as Ukraine NATO membership.
February 28, 2025Feb 28 22 minutes ago, The_Omega said: "Trump managed to act like a normal human mammal for most of the meeting before dropping trow and flinging pooh" has to be my favorite takeaway from today's ish show.
February 28, 2025Feb 28 7 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: 100% agree but this poster has no idea of what a no-go zone is when he throws that out there. The ones in Sweden are not good but still a far cry from the big city US ghettos. Yeah, there are some really bad areas here as well, but when I go visit family in the US, I am way more mindful of my surroundings than I am here… at the moment 😅
February 28, 2025Feb 28 1 minute ago, BBE said: At this point I worry the ship has sailed. The security agreement has the same chance as Ukraine NATO membership. Yes, it may have sailed. In any case, the security agreement aspect is/was the key. Without it, Ukraine will never sign anything.
February 28, 2025Feb 28 5 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: He will sign away parts of the mineral rights away but he MUST have a security agreement from the US. That's the only term that is non negotiable and that's the deal breaker. Without knowing all the terms of the minerals deal, maybe it would have been a better idea to sign it without the security agreement and then hold this administration accountable if & when peace falters?! You know there is always that 1% in a million that a plan can succeed…
February 28, 2025Feb 28 Ok, I've watched thru it and it was very clearly Vance that started the escalation. From there things just crumbled. All three of them were bad thereafter. Pretty clear they had not closed their negotiations before inviting the press into the room.
February 28, 2025Feb 28 2 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said: Without knowing all the terms of the minerals deal, maybe it would have been a better idea to sign it without the security agreement and then hold this administration accountable if & when peace falters?! You know there is always that 1% in a million that a plan can succeed… How does that help Ukraine when Putin attacks again in one year?
February 28, 2025Feb 28 3 minutes ago, iladelphxx said: Replacing him with a Putin puppet should work out well for us.
February 28, 2025Feb 28 1 minute ago, DrPhilly said: Yes, it may have sailed. In any case, the security agreement aspect is/was the key. Without it, Ukraine will never sign anything. And the US would never unilaterally give it under any administration.
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