4 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

As I see it, these leaders saw a confident Trump (you can hear Macron talk about his confidence in the video above) who thinks he is so close that they can skip right over a cease fire and go straight to peace. He has told Macron he thinks Putin wants to do a deal with him. He has told Zelensky, I think youll be surprised, I think Putin wants to do something.

I think there is exceptionally little wiggle room for Putin to back away right now without some sort of face saving consequence.

Trump may not be the smartest. And it may not be for the best intentions. But as youll all admit, if theres one thing he is interested in, its his image. He will not take kindly to this kind of embarrassment.

Macron is very skeptical about Russia wanting peace. He even said it in an interview that Russia will not want to end the war if they believe they can win through fighting. Putin is masterfully telling Trump what he wants to hear. He is playing him. Trump doesn’t understand the thought process of this KGB operative. It’s not just him though. A lot of people don’t seem to understand that Russians think differently than we do. What we think is normal is not normal to them and vice versa.

I agree that his own image is very important to Trump. I just don’t know if he will understand when Putin embarrasses him again. He might end all involvement in the conflict before throwing Putin under the bus, which he should have done a long time ago (the bus).

36 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

You know what, I actually hope you’re correct. I’ll give you props (not that you would need it from me) if your right with your assessment.

I just don’t see it happening. The meeting yesterday was good from an allies perspective, but it really means nothing if we don’t put united pressure on the Russians. They really only understand that & it’s been that way throughout history… I’m not just making it up.

The EU, US, and Ukraine have had multiple meetings to progress towards a peace plan and to put pressure on Russia to accede to one.

Trump and his idiotic supporters thought if he was in the White House, his tough talk would "get it done"

As usual, that is not what is happening.

Trump was wrong about everything.

39 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

The EU, US, and Ukraine have had multiple meetings to progress towards a peace plan and to put pressure on Russia to accede to one.

Trump and his idiotic supporters thought if he was in the White House, his tough talk would "get it done"

As usual, that is not what is happening.

Trump was wrong about everything.

The only thing that will get it done is of Ukraine cedes territory that it currently holds. That's Trump. Master Capitulator.

just f'ng end it.

4 minutes ago, barho said:

The only thing that will get it done is of Ukraine cedes territory that it currently holds. That's Trump. Master Capitulator.

Actually only way it ends is if Russia sees no point in waging war any longer.

Very few are taking Russia’s demands serious. Putin has said multiple times that he want ALL of Ukraine. He means it and not only is Trump reading him wrong, most of Europe is as well.

12 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

Might I say that based on todays discussions, and the mood in that room, it absolutely does not look like Trump was steamrolled by Putin.

2 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

As I see it, these leaders saw a confident Trump (you can hear Macron talk about his confidence in the video above) who thinks he is so close that they can skip right over a cease fire and go straight to peace.

For some who isn’t a trumper, you sure spend a lot of time licking his boots. The meeting with Z went well for one reason, he and the other European leaders who attended have learned how to play trump like the child he is. Everyone sees this except cult members.

46 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

Actually only way it ends is if Russia sees no point in waging war any longer.

And that only happens with a strong US lead coalition against Russian aggression, who continues to supply them with everything they need to defend themselves.

13 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

Might I say that based on todays discussions, and the mood in that room, it absolutely does not look like Trump was steamrolled by Putin. Which was never implied anyway.

Clearly if Trump pitched those people a very pro Russia deal, they wouldnt all be speaking so positively of the progress and ready to set up the trilateral meeting.

You guys will have to accept some Trump success, and defeat on the "steamrolled" misunderstanding. Context is so complex for some of you.

2 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

Russia is refusing to commit to a meeting between Putin and Zelensky, only saying they will raise the level of delegation they send to meetings.

1 hour ago, Tnt4philly said:

For some who isn’t a trumper, you sure spend a lot of time licking his boots. The meeting with Z went well for one reason, he and the other European leaders who attended have learned how to play trump like the child he is. Everyone sees this except cult members.

Duh. Everyone knows those leaders needed to be there. That's why they went.

But if Trump had nothing but concessions to Russia in his pitch to them at the beginning of that meeting, it wouldn't have gone very far and they wouldn't all be speaking so positively.

Clearly, that's not what happened in his meeting with Putin.

They also come away from that meeting stating Z is ready to talk about possible land swaps. Which, you'd have thought would have been a non-starter and people would have freaked of that news came out of Alaska.

2 hours ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

just f'ng end it.

see above.

honestly at this point why on the F is anyone giving Trump any benefit of any doubt.

42 minutes ago, Bill said:

honestly at this point why on the F is anyone giving Trump any benefit of any doubt.

i see this is your first ever interaction/ experience with a trumper.

2 hours ago, Tnt4philly said:

And that only happens with a strong US lead coalition against Russian aggression, who continues to supply them with everything they need to defend themselves.

Agreed. Only way this ends is if maximum pressure is put on Russia ASAP. They’re in it for the long run, if it is allowed. Cannot only blame Trump on this issue because Europe has also not been united in putting max pressure on Russia (they’re still funding his war by their gas and oil purchases).

No matter how you slice it, Putin will never accept anything out of the goodness of his heart. He only understands strength and if we don’t start to bully the bully, nothing will be solved.

2 hours ago, Tnt4philly said:

And that only happens with a strong US lead coalition against Russian aggression, who continues to supply them with everything they need to defend themselves.

I'm in the camp that if we gave Ukraine the necessary supplies they would have pushed Russia back and Putin would have called for peace a while ago. Putin in no way was expecting a 4 year war. I remember him talking about how this was going to take multi weeks at best.

2 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

I'm in the camp that if we gave Ukraine the necessary supplies they would have pushed Russia back and Putin would have called for peace a while ago. Putin in no way was expecting a 4 year war. I remember him talking about how this was going to take multi weeks at best.

Totally agree. Everyone was sleeping at thr wheel at the start of the conflict, including all Western European countries (especially Germany). They sent like 5000 helmets to help out. 🤣🤣

Ukraine has done more to defend itself than anyone would have ever thought. We had a golden opportunity to end Putin’s imperialism in its tracks but the entire West failed.

1 hour ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

Totally agree. Everyone was sleeping at thr wheel at the start of the conflict, including all Western European countries (especially Germany). They sent like 5000 helmets to help out. 🤣🤣

Ukraine has done more to defend itself than anyone would have ever thought. We had a golden opportunity to end Putin’s imperialism in its tracks but the entire West failed.

One of the things Biden was well ahead of the curve on was the Ukraine conflict. His ongoing support was foot dragging, but he was beating the drum November/December about Russia's posture towards Ukraine.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/07/biden-putin-call-ukraine-invasion-523884

just think, if ukraine didn't start this war to begin with, we wouldn't be here now.

9 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

and now the white house says Putin has agreed to meet with Zalensky...

7 hours ago, Bill said:

honestly at this point why on the F is anyone giving Trump any benefit of any doubt.

Bc that would be admitting they have been duped yet again

7 hours ago, DaEagles4Life said:

I'm in the camp that if we gave Ukraine the necessary supplies they would have pushed Russia back and Putin would have called for peace a while ago. Putin in no way was expecting a 4 year war. I remember him talking about how this was going to take multi weeks at best.

The reason why it is the way it is today is a combo of issues, but that is the biggest piece of the pie.

Biden appointed/nominated the most incompetent people to his administration, so we got a: the slow rolling of US aid to Ukraine, and b: trying to ask Europe to kindly pretty please with sugar on top provide aid*. There are ongoing issues on the Ukrainian side of things, as well, but the US ished the bed in '22.

*The only Euro/Nato nations worth a damn are East and North of and including Poland. Every other NATO country as far as I'm concerned is about as useful as teets on a boar hog, and the fact that absolutely zero pressure was or is put on them is ridiculous. Honestly I think we F'd up during the Cold War years. We should have had a plan to absolutely get involved if the Soviets went through the Fulda Gap but told the Euros that we would absolutely not have done anything and they were on their own. But w/e.

The dumbest timeline.

8 hours ago, Bill said:

*The only Euro/Nato nations worth a damn are East and North of and including Poland.