4 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Yes, by definition it is for her convenience

 

I don't know if avoiding pain and suffering is just "convenience," and in many of these cases, it's the unwanted child who bears the brunt of pain and suffering.

 

4 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

its incredibly easy not to get pregnant

 

Very, very true. It does happen even with responsible birth control use, but it is extremely rare in this day and age with the variety of reliable birth control available. In most cases, when people speak of "accidental pregnancy," it's just due to irresponsibility. It makes my head spin. However, it is not just the parent who suffers, the kid suffers as well, and then the taxpayers are saddled with paying for the public services needed to feed and clothe kids in poor households and foster care.

Just now, Boogyman said:

You never did give us that source though. You often quote numbers and statistics without any reference.

Yes I did, scroll back

What source do you want?  Need me to google for you?

1 minute ago, Mike31mt said:

English MFer, do you speak it?

1 percent, right? Link?

58 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

I've long said before that I thought Roe created a reasonable middle ground by restricting abortion after 12 weeks. I don't someone should be able to abort a fully formed fetus on a whim. Opinions will vary on when exactly fetal life becomes something akin to living, breathing human. We will never all agree on this, but abortion is at the very least a necessary evil that needs to be available for women who cannot handle the burden of a pregnancy whether for a variety of reasons.

Either way, we really shouldn't be using religion to inform the law.

It's really hard to not have religion or ethics have some type of factor in law-making.  We don't have a state religion, but individuals have religious beliefs, ethics and political views that inform their decision making.  People use morality and ethics for all sorts of arguments like civil rights, homelessness, etc.  Look at healthcare, people appeal to emotion and ethics when they talk about making it free so people have access to it.  Some say it's not a right and you are responsible to pay for your own medical bills and others say it's cruel to expect people to afford high costs of healthcare and suffer from medical issues because they can't afford it.  The left doesn't get cold and calloused sticking solely to the letter of the law when it comes to other topics. How human beings are affected by issues come into play. 

But with abortion, if you want to keep it it's a baby you start celebrating and getting excited about your child.  If you don't want it, it's just a clump of cells.  When a woman has a miscarriage they're not told to not grieve it's just a clump of cells it wasn't really a life until X number of weeks or until they have consciousness or took it's first breath outside the womb.  I don't see how anyone can argue it's not a real life and ok to kill until it is born and takes it's first breath. The baby has a heartbeat, is moving around and kicking, it's known that babies can hear their parents voices from inside the womb and it helps with bonding.  It's gruesome to just say that's not a real life and killing it doesn't matter.  Legally, they will never come up with something that satisfies everyone so picking a limit on number of weeks seems like a decent compromise.

Just now, Mike31mt said:

Yes I did, scroll back

What source do you want?  Need me to google for you?

No, I said earlier I don't have a strong opinion either way on this. Others asked for a link though.

1 minute ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

I don't know if avoiding pain and suffering is just "convenience," and in many of these cases, it's the unwanted child who bears the brunt of pain and suffering.

 

 

Very, very true. It does happen even with responsible birth control use, but it is extremely rare in this day and age with the variety of reliable birth control available. In most cases, when people speak of "accidental pregnancy," it's just due to irresponsibility. However, it is not just the parent who suffers, the kid suffers as well, and then the taxpayers are saddled with paying for the public services needed to feed and clothe kids in poor households and foster care.

The unwanted child bears the brunt?

Im 100% sure theyd choose to, you know, still  live though...

3 minutes ago, Boogyman said:

1 percent, right? Link?

I said I had it backwards

Less than1% is for rape/incest and I think around like 5% is for "health" (which is a debatable metric depending on the definition of "health")

Either way, youre looking at around 95% of abortions, about 70M babies, aborted because of simple inconvenience or embarrassment

 

Link I posted, again after 30 seconds of googling.  There are many studies/surveys on this:. https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/psrh/2005/reasons-us-women-have-abortions-quantitative-and-qualitative-perspectives

Given this new information, I'm going to short Planned Parenthood.  The timing couldn't be worse for them

 

Quote

Planned Parenthood Opens $8 Billion Abortionplex

TOPEKA, KS—Planned Parenthood announced Tuesday the grand opening of its long-planned $8 billion Abortionplex, a sprawling abortion facility that will allow the organization to terminate unborn lives with an efficiency never before thought possible.

During a press conference, Planned Parenthood president Cecile Richards told reporters that the new state-of-the-art fetus-killing facility located in the nation’s heartland offers quick, easy, in-and-out abortions to all women, and represents a bold reinvention of the group’s long-standing mission and values.

"Although we’ve traditionally dedicated 97 percent of our resources to other important services such as contraception distribution, cancer screening, and STD testing, this new complex allows us to devote our full attention to what has always been our true passion: abortion,” said Richards, standing under a banner emblazoned with Planned Parenthood’s new slogan, "No Life Is Sacred.” "And since Congress voted to retain our federal funding, it’s going to be that much easier for us to maximize the number of tiny, beating hearts we stop every day.”

"The Abortionplex’s high-tech machinery is capable of terminating one pregnancy every three seconds,” Richards added. "That’s almost a million abortions every month. We’re so thrilled!”

 

The 900,000-square-foot facility has more than 2,000 rooms dedicated to the abortion procedure. The abundance of surgical space, Richards said, will ensure that women visiting the facility can be quickly fitted into stirrups without pausing to second-guess their decision or consider alternatives such as adoption. Hundreds of on-site counselors are also available to meet with clients free of charge and go over the many ways that carrying a child to term will burden them and very likely ruin their lives.

The remaining space is dedicated to amenities such as coffee shops, bars, dozens of restaurants and retail outlets, a three-story nightclub, and a 10-screen multiplex theater—features intended not only to help clients relax, but to foster a sense of community and make abortion more of a social event.

"We really want abortion to become a regular part of women’s lives, especially younger women who have enough fertile years ahead of them to potentially have dozens of abortions,” said Richards, adding that the Abortionplex would provide shuttle service to and from most residences, schools, and shopping malls in the region. "Our hope is for this facility to become a regular destination where a woman in her second trimester can whoop it up at karaoke and then kick back while we vacuum out the contents of her uterus.”

"All women should feel like they have a home at the Abortionplex,” Richards continued. "Whether she’s a high school junior who doesn’t want to go to prom pregnant, a go-getter professional who can’t be bothered with the time commitment of raising a child, or a prostitute who knows getting an abortion is the easiest form of birth control—all are welcome.”

Nineteen-year-old Marcy Kolrath, one of the Abortionplex’s first clients, told reporters that despite her initial hesitancy, she was quickly put at ease by staff members who reassured her that she could have abortions over and over for the next decade before finally committing to motherhood. Kolrath also said she was "wowed” by the facility’s many attractions.

"I was kind of on the fence in the beginning,” she said. "But after a couple of margaritas and a ride down the lazy river they’ve got circling the place, I got caught up in the vibe. By the time it was over, I almost wished I could’ve aborted twins and gotten to stay a little longer.”

"I told my boyfriend we had to have sex again that very night,” Kolrath added. "I really want to come back over Labor Day.”

 

2 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

I said I had it backwards

Less than1% is for rape/incest and I think around like 5% is for "health" (which is a debatable metric depending on the definition of "health")

Either way, youre looking at around 95% of abortions, about 70M babies, aborted because of simple inconvenience or embarrassment

Yes. You were only 5 times over. Not bad, considering.

3 minutes ago, Boogyman said:

Yes. You were only 5 times over. Not bad, considering.

Yeah from 1% to 5%, and even 5% is likely on the high side.

Either way its a BS argument.  The vast majority of abortions are for convenience and nothing more.

Just now, Mike31mt said:

Yeah from 1% to 5%, and even 5% is likely on the high side.

Either way its a BS argument.  The vast majority of abortions are for convenience and nothing more.

Link?

14 minutes ago, toolg said:

Matt Gaetz, still doing Matt Gaetz things:

100% chance this dude paid for a 16 year old to have an abortion. 

 

via Venmo

8 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

I said I had it backwards

Less than1% is for rape/incest and I think around like 5% is for "health" (which is a debatable metric depending on the definition of "health")

Either way, youre looking at around 95% of abortions, about 70M babies, aborted because of simple inconvenience or embarrassment

Inconvenience and embarrassment, oh you're a hoot.  Not finishing high school or college, knowing that they have to raise it alone because father will never be in the picture, or worse, in an abusive relationship.  Living at poverty level or close to it with multiple living children already in tow.  Prostitutes, drug addicts, mentally challenged women who have no business in motherhood.  Yeah, most of those 70M are babies we could do without, you'll never knew they could have existed, just like the pools of semen you pour on your keyboard as you type this crap.

19 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Roe v wade was fought for by the grandmothers of millenials.  It's older than me and i'm an eagles fan since Jaworski.

You’re ancient

Regarding the tired argument that pro lifers don't care about kids after they're born, that's been debunked plenty by the waiting lists for adoptions, the amount of pro life and Christian charities that care for children, the parents that foster and adopt children and so on.

Regardless, if you believe abortion is murder that doesn't mean you are responsible for the child someone else had.  The people who decide to have sex and risk getting pregnant are responsible for their decisions.  Use contraception and birth control.  The pro choice argument never talks about responsibility of the people having sex and getting pregnant in the first place.  Abortions because of rape and incest are rare, most of them are just because it was unplanned and they don't want to interrupt their career or they can't afford a child.  Abortion doesn't have to be the only option, adoption is an option as well.

A big part of this is a heart issue for pro lifers.  Believing that there is a life in there worth the opportunity to live.  Stories from people who say their mother thought about aborting them but didn't and they're thankful they were given the chance to live.  The pro life argument also has to consider the difficult decision mothers face, that not every abortion is flippantly treating the baby like garbage but weighing a very heavy decision.  

The middle ground would be more education about not getting pregnant, more access to/free birth control, more assistance for adoption and foster process.  And starting with just trying to reduce the number of abortions and unwanted pregnancies in the first place.  Also, the facts are that the number of abortions has reduced in recent years so study why that is and what can help bring those numbers down.

2 hours ago, The_Omega said:

You’re talking to who?

The other beavis

Some of you should really turn off Tucker Carlson and go volunteer at a local nonprofit organization or work with underprivileged kids. The almost proud lack of empathy for what many of these women go through is troubling to read.

18 minutes ago, NOTW said:

It's really hard to not have religion or ethics have some type of factor in law-making. 

nah...it's not. and your religion doesn't apply to everyone else...you believe what you believe. it has no impact on what others believe. 

religion and ethics aren't the same thing either.  

If the unwed Father doesn't want the baby and paying money for it would put them in financial hardship they should be able to legally terminate their responsibility for the child as well as their rights to custody and visitation.  

9 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Inconvenience and embarrassment, oh you're a hoot.  Not finishing high school or college, knowing that they have to raise it alone because father will never be in the picture, or worse, in an abusive relationship.  Living at poverty level or close to it with multiple living children already in tow.  Prostitutes, drug addicts, mentally challenged women who have no business in motherhood.  Yeah, most of those 70M are babies we could do without, you'll never knew they could have existed, just like the pools of semen you pour on your keyboard as you type this crap.

Then sterilize them while you are in there

4 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

The other beavis

1 minute ago, NOTW said:

Regarding the tired argument that pro lifers don't care about kids after they're born, that's been debunked plenty by the waiting lists for adoptions, the amount of pro life and Christian charities that care for children, the parents that foster and adopt children and so on.

Regardless, if you believe abortion is murder that doesn't mean you are responsible for the child someone else had.  The people who decide to have sex and risk getting pregnant are responsible for their decisions.  Use contraception and birth control.  The pro choice argument never talks about responsibility of the people having sex and getting pregnant in the first place.  Abortions because of rape and incest are rare, most of them are just because it was unplanned and they don't want to interrupt their career or they can't afford a child.  Abortion doesn't have to be the only option, adoption is an option as well.

A big part of this is a heart issue for pro lifers.  Believing that there is a life in there worth the opportunity to live.  Stories from people who say their mother thought about aborting them but didn't and they're thankful they were given the chance to live.  The pro life argument also has to consider the difficult decision mothers face, that not every abortion is flippantly treating the baby like garbage but weighing a very heavy decision.  

The middle ground would be more education about not getting pregnant, more access to/free birth control, more assistance for adoption and foster process.  And starting with just trying to reduce the number of abortions and unwanted pregnancies in the first place.  Also, the facts are that the number of abortions has reduced in recent years so study why that is and what can help bring those numbers down.

And this is the problem, because this is a legal question, not a moral one. If we were to make things illegal simply because they are immoral -- rooting for the Cowboys is immoral, but it's perfectly legal. 

The simple question that no one wants to tackle is -- when does a fetus acquire Constitutional rights and protections? At conception? At viability? If it is at conception, then should a mother who smokes while pregnant be charged with child abuse? The SCOTUS punted on making that call with Roe, relying on the Right to Privacy. 

But we will never, EVER address that question. So we'll be stuck in this stupid loop where both sides have a wedge issue that really isn't important in the grand scheme of things.

3 minutes ago, NOTW said:

If the unwed Father doesn't want the baby and paying money for it would put them in financial hardship they should be able to legally terminate their responsibility for the child as well as their rights to custody and visitation.  

Uh dude...so a man can "terminate" his obligations to pay, but the woman can't terminate the pregnancy? Yeah, that'll go over well.

new club banger just dropped:

 

2 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

nah...it's not. and your religion doesn't apply to everyone else...you believe what you believe. it has no impact on what others believe. 

religion and ethics aren't the same thing either.  

I didn't say they're the same thing, I said religion "or" ethics.

Ethics, morality and religious teaching have informed laws since the beginning.  There is religious language in the Declaration of Independence.  ""We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator..."  Some of the founding fathers referenced religious teaching in their writings.  And yes people are allowed to believe what they want, that's part of the foundation of our country is people are free in their religion.  

Whether you agree with it or not, religious language is in our government.  Our money says In God We Trust, God is in the pledge of allegiance, the Declaration of Independence, Biden's inauguration had prayers and singing Christian hymns, the White House hosts a national day of prayer with different religious leaders attending, etc.

And as I said, people appeal to some type of ethics and morality when making political arguments on other topics like healthcare and civil rights.  It's unavoidable.