June 13, 20223 yr Just now, Phillyterp85 said: I’m all for getting rid of social security. What does that have to do with Medicare? Medicare and Medicaid are larger Ponzi schemes than SS. They dwarf SS in size.
June 13, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, TEW said: Medicare and Medicaid are larger Ponzi schemes than SS. They dwarf SS in size. They’re not Ponzi schemes. They are subsidized insurance programs.
June 13, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said: They’re not Ponzi schemes. They are subsidized insurance programs. 80% of its funding comes from the same tax structure as SS, and it has the exact same demographic problems of having too many takers and not enough makers.
June 13, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, TEW said: 80% of its funding comes from the same tax structure as SS, and it has the exact same demographic problems of having too many takers and not enough makers. It’s not a Ponzi scheme. By your logic, anything funded by tax revenues is a Ponzi scheme.
June 13, 20223 yr Just now, Phillyterp85 said: It’s not a Ponzi scheme. By your logic, anything funded by tax revenues is a Ponzi scheme. No, not by my logic. These programs — SS, Medicare, Medicaid — all use the same basic financial structure: payroll taxes in, present benefits out, future benefits promised. And just like with SS, the problem with Medicare and Medicaid is the demographics — a higher proportion of old to to young, unemployed to employed, poor to wealthy, beneficiaries to benefactors. Of course, Medicare and Medicaid have bigger problems than SS because the cost of healthcare is increasing at such an accelerated rate, but that’s another issue entirely. Bottom line is, Medicare and Medicaid have literally the same financial problems as social security. If you’ve accepted that SS is a financial Ponzi Scheme but not Medicare/aid, you’ve got some serious cognitive dissonance going on. There is a reason they are tallied together when calculating the country’s total unfunded liabilities.
June 13, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, Phillyterp85 said: Yes that’s actually exactly what you’d be doing. The overwhelming majority of hospitals and surgery centers in this country accept Medicare. The overwhelming majority of engineers in this country work for firms who do work for the government. And you dont see that as a problem?
June 13, 20223 yr 43 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said: They’re not Ponzi schemes. They are subsidized insurance programs. You are kidding yourself. How many assets do they hold again?
June 13, 20223 yr 22 minutes ago, TEW said: No, not by my logic. These programs — SS, Medicare, Medicaid — all use the same basic financial structure: payroll taxes in, present benefits out, future benefits promised. And just like with SS, the problem with Medicare and Medicaid is the demographics — a higher proportion of old to to young, unemployed to employed, poor to wealthy, beneficiaries to benefactors. Of course, Medicare and Medicaid have bigger problems than SS because the cost of healthcare is increasing at such an accelerated rate, but that’s another issue entirely. Bottom line is, Medicare and Medicaid have literally the same financial problems as social security. If you’ve accepted that SS is a financial Ponzi Scheme but not Medicare/aid, you’ve got some serious cognitive dissonance going on. There is a reason they are tallied together when calculating the country’s total unfunded liabilities. no, it’s not cognitive dissonance. It’s an understanding of the difference of what a Ponzi scheme is vs what an insurance program is. SS is sold to people as a retirement vehicle. But money paid in is not actually invested. And the retirees who collect are simply paid out by the new investors in. Medicare is health insurance. CMS negotiates reimbursement rates with hospitals and physicians for services for the people that are enrolled in their insurance program. People on Medicare pay a monthly premium and then pay a copay and/or part of the costs of a covered procedure when they have one. It has literally no bearing to a Ponzi scheme. It is a health insurance program that is subsidized.
June 13, 20223 yr 21 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said: no, it’s not cognitive dissonance. It’s an understanding of the difference of what a Ponzi scheme is vs what an insurance program is. SS is sold to people as a retirement vehicle. But money paid in is not actually invested. And the retirees who collect are simply paid out by the new investors in. Medicare is health insurance. CMS negotiates reimbursement rates with hospitals and physicians for services for the people that are enrolled in their insurance program. People on Medicare pay a monthly premium and then pay a copay and/or part of the costs of a covered procedure when they have one. It has literally no bearing to a Ponzi scheme. It is a health insurance program that is subsidized. Medicare is MORE of a Ponzi Scheme than SS by your own definition, dude.
June 13, 20223 yr 38 minutes ago, TEW said: Medicare is MORE of a Ponzi Scheme than SS by your own definition, dude. Ummmm no it’s literally an insurance program. By your logic all health insurance is a Ponzi scheme since low income individuals have subsidized insurance.
June 13, 20223 yr 10 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said: Ummmm no it’s literally an insurance program. By your logic all health insurance is a Ponzi scheme since low income individuals have subsidized insurance. your definition: money paid in is not actually invested. And the retirees whocollect are simply paid out by the new investors in. How does this not apply to Medicare? Money paid in is not invested - check. Retirees who collect are simply paid out by the new investors in - check. Calling it an insurance program doesn’t change the fact that it’s a Ponzi Scheme dude. It meets your own definition for Christ’s sake! Right now, you are paying taxes to fund Medicare. And that money is not being invested to fund your own future benefits. Instead it is being used to pay for current beneficiaries. And when you get old, someone younger is going to be paying for your benefits. That’s precisely the problem!
June 13, 20223 yr 8 hours ago, TEW said: your definition: money paid in is not actually invested. And the retirees whocollect are simply paid out by the new investors in. How does this not apply to Medicare? Money paid in is not invested - check. Retirees who collect are simply paid out by the new investors in - check. Calling it an insurance program doesn’t change the fact that it’s a Ponzi Scheme dude. It meets your own definition for Christ’s sake! Right now, you are paying taxes to fund Medicare. And that money is not being invested to fund your own future benefits. Instead it is being used to pay for current beneficiaries. And when you get old, someone younger is going to be paying for your benefits. That’s precisely the problem! Because there is nothing to "collect" in medicare. What are you talking about? It's an insurance program. People who are on medicare pay monthly premiums and then pay copays and co-insurance just like people who are under 65 and who have private health insurance. In fact, many people over 65 still have private health insurance to supplement their medicare insurance. In order to help keep costs down, medicare is subsidized. No, it doesn't meet the definition of a ponzi scheme. It's a subsidized health insurance program. Again, by your logic, then all health insurance is a ponzi scheme. In addition to that, literally every program funded by taxes would also be a ponzi scheme under your logic.
June 13, 20223 yr 11 hours ago, TEW said: I mean, neo-feudalism sounds catchy so yeah, why not? Not sure about the women part though. I’m not a biologist. We're all in consensus on this... Nobody would ever mistake you for someone who is familiar with women.
June 13, 20223 yr 29 minutes ago, Kz! said: Leftists once again have a near monopoly on political violence in this country. I take it you didn’t hear about Patriot Front over the weekend?
June 13, 20223 yr Just now, Dave Moss said: I take it you didn’t hear about Patriot Front over the weekend? That actually perfectly illustrates the point. Right wing group gets arrested on the spot for plans to riot at an event. Why weren't these tactics used to quell BLM/Antifa riots in 2020. They weren't exactly subtle. Rented Uhaul vans carrying riot gear were literally being shipped to BLM riots all over the country. Hell a food truck called riot kitchen would drive to states all over the country to provide material support for rioters.
June 13, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, Kz! said: That actually perfectly illustrates the point. Right wing group gets arrested on the spot for plans to riot at an event. Why weren't these tactics used to quell BLM/Antifa riots in 2020. They weren't exactly subtle. Rented Uhaul vans carrying riot gear were literally being shipped to BLM riots all over the country. Hell a food truck called riot kitchen would drive to states all over the country to provide material support for rioters. Your endless backpedaling is impressive.
June 13, 20223 yr 9 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: I take it you didn’t hear about Patriot Front over the weekend? Awesome news. Glad they arrested them BEFORE they did damage, now if only they would do that more often instead of standing by and letting bad things happen. Like Jan 6th, or the BLM riots....
June 13, 20223 yr 3 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Your endless backpedaling is impressive. How is that backpedaling? Leftists are allowed to riot while right wing groups are locked up, so, yes, that strengthens the case that the left has a near monopoly on political violence in the country.
June 13, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, Kz! said: How is that backpedaling? Leftists are allowed to riot while right wing groups are locked up, so, yes, that strengthens the case that the left has a near monopoly on political violence in the country.
June 13, 20223 yr 9 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said: Because there is nothing to "collect" in medicare. What are you talking about? It's an insurance program. People who are on medicare pay monthly premiums and then pay copays and co-insurance just like people who are under 65 and who have private health insurance. In fact, many people over 65 still have private health insurance to supplement their medicare insurance. In order to help keep costs down, medicare is subsidized. No, it doesn't meet the definition of a ponzi scheme. It's a subsidized health insurance program. Again, by your logic, then all health insurance is a ponzi scheme. In addition to that, literally every program funded by taxes would also be a ponzi scheme under your logic. In many cases, in order to keep costs down, Medicare dictates what they're going to pay, roughly 35 cents on the dollar, and the doctor can take it or leave it. There's also many government assistance programs for people who can't afford medicare costs. Insurance companies don't have that luxury. Yes, they negotiate rates, some lower than retail price, some higher, it's usually a wash. Medicare is as much an entitlement as it is insurance.
June 13, 20223 yr 9 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said: Because there is nothing to "collect" in medicare. What are you talking about? It's an insurance program. People who are on medicare pay monthly premiums and then pay copays and co-insurance just like people who are under 65 and who have private health insurance. In fact, many people over 65 still have private health insurance to supplement their medicare insurance. In order to help keep costs down, medicare is subsidized. No, it doesn't meet the definition of a ponzi scheme. It's a subsidized health insurance program. Again, by your logic, then all health insurance is a ponzi scheme. In addition to that, literally every program funded by taxes would also be a ponzi scheme under your logic. The part you are missing, the Ponzi part of it, is the funding to subsidize comes from payroll taxes, just like social security. Payroll taxes from today's workers are used to subsidize plans for existing retirees -- therefore, new "investors" money is being used to fund payments to older investors. That is, definitionally, a Ponzi scheme. You are "collecting" the subsidy being funded by current payroll taxes.
June 13, 20223 yr 9 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said: Because there is nothing to "collect" in medicare. What are you talking about? It's an insurance program. People who are on medicare pay monthly premiums and then pay copays and co-insurance just like people who are under 65 and who have private health insurance. In fact, many people over 65 still have private health insurance to supplement their medicare insurance. In order to help keep costs down, medicare is subsidized. No, it doesn't meet the definition of a ponzi scheme. It's a subsidized health insurance program. Again, by your logic, then all health insurance is a ponzi scheme. In addition to that, literally every program funded by taxes would also be a ponzi scheme under your logic. Riiiiight. And payroll taxes are what subsidizes it. And we need a certain proportion of people paying those taxes to subsidize those who use the programs. And there aren’t enough people to keep the scheme going. 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: The part you are missing, the Ponzi part of it, is the funding to subsidize comes from payroll taxes, just like social security. Payroll taxes from today's workers are used to subsidize plans for existing retirees -- therefore, new "investors" money is being used to fund payments to older investors. That is, definitionally, a Ponzi scheme. You are "collecting" the subsidy being funded by current payroll taxes. I mean, I’ve explained it a couple times now… 🤷♂️
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