4 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I don't think anyone has questioned him as being a great #6 OL, or even a really good sub.  But, for the notion to be put out there that he's Pro Bowl level (not that that means nearly as much anymore) is just ridiculous.  He's an average to slightly above average starter when he's in there.  He's not a top 6 OG in the NFC.  

Gotta take one thing into account though..........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...........Driscoll is ..............................

 

 

 

 

....after all.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.........................................basically a rookie!

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

For once I agree with him

 

 

Agreed, but I think it goes even beyond that with two factors in mind:

1)  The Eagles paid out a mega extension at 4 years and $128M just a few years ago, and ended up moving on before the contract even kicked in.  They ate $32M in dead money because the QB didn't wish to be here anymore (and the organization came to the same conclusion at least in part).

2)  Howie needs to assess what Hurts' contract expectations will be.  The going rate for current contract extensions for franchise QBs are all in the $40M+ market now, and it isn't going to get cheaper.  Honestly, what amount is Hurts going to expect?  I have a hard time believing he'll be asking for anything less than $36M per season on an extension -- perhaps the expectation will be $40M+ if the Eagles are in the playoffs in back-to-back years.

 

For me, it's gotta go way beyond putting up big rushing stats and middling passing stats to warrant that type of extension.  The Eagles would have to see a Josh Allen-type jump in the 2022 season.  Hurts will be looking for an extension after this season (no player waits until their rookie deal is done to negotiate an extension -- unless it's because they know the price will go up, like Lamar) and I wouldn't give one unless he's a top-10 QB across the board.

, 

Never can switch this one off.......one of my TOP 5 films 

47 minutes ago, RLC said:

The UDFA class being deep is not hindsight bias. We discussed this during the 2021 draft.

With the COVID year everyone knew this was going to be a much bigger class.  

26 minutes ago, downundermike said:

For once I agree with him

 

 

I don't. There isn't one simplifying qualifier he has to hit to be the starter. Plenty of bad QB's win playoff games. 

36 minutes ago, downundermike said:

For once I agree with him

 

 

Eh, the Eagles could've won a playoff game last year with the right matchup. Depends way more on how Hurts looks this year and whether they have to change the offense again. No reason for any decent QB to not put up big numbers with Brown/Smith/Goedert and this OL.

8 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

Eh, the Eagles could've won a playoff game last year with the right matchup. Depends way more on how Hurts looks this year and whether they have to change the offense again. No reason for any decent QB to not put up big numbers with Brown/Smith/Goedert and this OL.

I agree.  I think either Hurts looks like a top 10 passing QB in enough games to consider keeping him or the team looks to upgrade the position.  It may be the first among team positions but it's a team position.  Winning a playoff game wouldn't make a difference if he's not looking much better as a passer.  

46 minutes ago, downundermike said:

For once I agree with him

 

 

Jalen Hurts must significantly improve as a passer to be the QB next year. Thats it. They will give him a new contract if he takes a significant step forward as a passer and believe he will continue to get better and better. Eliot's statement doesnt make any sense because who knows what this team could look like come playoff time with injuries, and how that said playoff game could play out. Eliot's brain clearly doesnt think about context.

10 minutes ago, UndyTaker said:

Jalen Hurts must significantly improve as a passer to be the QB next year. Thats it. They will give him a new contract if he takes a significant step forward as a passer and believe he will continue to get better and better. Eliot's statement doesnt make any sense because who knows what this team could look like come playoff time with injuries, and how that said playoff game could play out. Eliot's brain clearly doesnt think about context.

He’s simplifying it, but Hurts has to prove that he can win throwing the football against good defenses when it matters. He was shut down when the opposing defense played all 4 quarters. 

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

For once I agree with him

 

 

Even though I am one of the captains of the anti-Hurts train, I don't think football can be that black and white.  You can say that about a superstar in the NBA.  If Hurts has a great year and plays well in a shootout wild card loss, I would bring him back.  Likewise, if he plays like he did last year and has a similar playoff performance in a 10-7 wild card win, I don't want to hear BS about how Hurts is a 25 year old playoff winning QB...he's gotta go.

1 hour ago, justrelax said:

I loathe David Lynch films. Twenty minutes of Eraserhead was enough to put me off him forever.

I don't loathe them but I am not sure what drives the acclaim he gets.  I like 2 of his movies Wild at Heart and Mulholland Drive .  Lost Highway was dull and confusing.  Blue Velvet's is at least entertaining for Dennis Hopper and Isabella Rossellini.  

38 minutes ago, UndyTaker said:

Jalen Hurts must significantly improve as a passer to be the QB next year. Thats it. They will give him a new contract if he takes a significant step forward as a passer and believe he will continue to get better and better. Eliot's statement doesnt make any sense because who knows what this team could look like come playoff time with injuries, and how that said playoff game could play out. Eliot's brain clearly doesnt think about context.

Who gets to decide what is "significantly improve as a passer?" ESP was trying to put in a firm requirement I think. Yes there are many variables involved in making it to and winning a playoff game.

3 hours ago, austinfan said:

At least according to PFF, that's a bit of an exaggeration, they gave him a 70.9 grade for the season, which is decent but not overwhelming.

However, interesting tidbit, Jack Driscoll career at Auburn: 1,690 Pass-block snaps - 4 QB hits allowed. Played RT for two years after transferring from U Mass. Didn't miss a game.

Problem with Driscoll, 6'5 but 33" arms - a little short for OT. A bit of a tweener, good athlete who lacks length for OT and power for OG, but someone for Stoutland to work with - at RG, if Dickerson/Mailata on the left side, he has the raw athleticism that is normally found at LG (where teams pull right and want a guard who can move in space).

He looked solid at RT, isn't going to run block like Lane, but isn't going to be sieve in pass protection either. At RG, Driscoll can move his feet but lacks power. But we'll see if he's improved, weight room and better technique can help.

His height and arm length are comparable to Jason Peters and Penei Sewell but he's about 20 to 30 lbs lighter. So I think he's smaller than average but not so small that he's an outlier at the position from Stoutland's perspective.    I agree with you that he needs to build up strength and power to play inside.  That's probably where he could be a full-time above average starter.  I think one reason they let go of Herbig is that they prefer more athletic guards inside and are willing to sacrifice power to have a player that can move in a blocking scheme.  

22 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

He’s simplifying it, but Hurts has to prove that he can win throwing the football against good defenses when it matters. He was shut down when the opposing defense played all 4 quarters. 

No he is saying that Jalen has to win a playoff game with this offense on paper in order to be the QB next year. To your point, Jalen will have an entire season to prove that he has significantly improved as a passer against good and bad defenses. He was shut down in the regular season multiple times just as he was in the playoffs. Now mind you I am not a believer that Hurts will improve. I think this is about as good as he gets, and I think we get our QB in next year's draft.....but I have to be real here and acknowledge the fact that if Hurts shows significant improvement throughout the regular season and is consistent at it....regardless if they win or lose in the playoffs....this front office will give Hurts a new contract and he will be the QB going forward. It will not come down to 1 game.

14 minutes ago, eglz1 said:

Who gets to decide what is "significantly improve as a passer?" ESP was trying to put in a firm requirement I think. Yes there are many variables involved in making it to and winning a playoff game.

The front office does lol. But he must become much better as a passer and one would hope that the front office doesnt see minor improvement and roll the dice.

12 minutes ago, eglz1 said:

Who gets to decide what is "significantly improve as a passer?" ESP was trying to put in a firm requirement I think. Yes there are many variables involved in making it to and winning a playoff game.

 The blog gets to decide by a vote of members in good standing at the conclusion of the season.  Hurts would need affirmative from a majority of the members.  

I mean I don't see a playoff win as a real factor unless he throws for 6TD and 400 yards in the game. He needs to show a ceiling that he hasn't shown yet as a passer.  

Hurts Vs. Tua. Battle for the 20th best QB in the NFL. 

Jalen will have a full offseason, 2nd year in the same scheme with the same HC, improved weapons and hopefully a healthier OL.

I don't expect him to be Mahomes or Allen, but I think they'd be happy with a bigger, stronger Jeff Garcia, or a more consistent Garoppolo.

Top ten passer, partially due to his ability to make plays when the pocket breaks down, and a top runner is good enough to win championships on a good team.

Comes down to improving his mechanics, making better reads from the pocket, a better feel for defenses and anticipating where his receivers will be.

I'm agnostic, either he improves significantly or he doesn't, but I'll wait and see how the season unfolds.

 

 

7 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Top ten passer, partially due to his ability to make plays when the pocket breaks down, and a top runner is good enough to win championships on a good team.

Please give us examples of winning championships with that style of QB.

10 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

 The blog gets to decide by a vote of members in good standing at the conclusion of the season.  Hurts would need affirmative from a majority of the members.  

I mean I don't see a playoff win as a real factor unless he throws for 6TD and 400 yards in the game. He needs to show a ceiling that he hasn't shown yet as a passer.  

So basically you are saying 10 people get to decide and we don't know who those 10 are?  Sounds fair.  

2 hours ago, downundermike said:

For once I agree with him

 

 

I disagree with him.  Playoff games aren't won by a single player, but they can be lost by one.  He has to play like he belongs in the playoffs while in the playoffs.  He needs to play well against playoff teams in the regular season and win at least one of those games.  But, if he leads the team to wins only against the weakest of the NFL, and plays like he's never seen a football field before again in the playoffs, he's toast.  But, it isn't as black and white as 'win a playoff game'.   Crazy comparison incoming... but if he plays a game like Josh Allen did against the Chiefs, and comes up on the short end, as Allen did, then that's good enough for him to get 2024 as well (but no extension yet)... with the disclaimer that he'd have to have played a number of games at that level during the regular season as well.

I hate the idea of giving won/loss records to QBs in spite of how important they are, but since the subject is being brought up…

Garoppolo (sp), was the "winning QB” in Green Bay last year, and he led them to zero TDs. I realize winning the way San Fran did is not common place, but it’s not unheard of either. If that’s the best we can get out of Hurts, that isn’t good enough.  

12 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Please give us examples of winning championships with that style of QB.

Joe Montana, average arm. Steve Young, average arm. Both excelled at running the WCO with great skill people,  Young's best season, Watters, Floyd, at RB, Rice, Taylor at WR, Jones at TE.

Ravens (Dilfer), Eagles (Foles), TB (Johnson), Denver (Peyton, arm was shot). Giants won twice with Eli, above average arm, below average accuracy.

Brady's first two SBs were with a dink and dunk offense. Belichick didn't trust his arm until 2004.

22 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

So basically you are saying 10 people get to decide and we don't know who those 10 are?  Sounds fair.  

I don't make the rules. 

24 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Please give us examples of winning championships with that style of QB.

Pat Mahomes and Russell Wilson? 

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

Joe Montana, average arm. Steve Young, average arm. Both excelled at running the WCO with great skill people,  Young's best season, Watters, Floyd, at RB, Rice, Taylor at WR, Jones at TE.

Ravens (Dilfer), Eagles (Foles), TB (Johnson), Denver (Peyton, arm was shot). Giants won twice with Eli, above average arm, below average accuracy.

Brady's first two SBs were with a dink and dunk offense. Belichick didn't trust his arm until 2004.

But you said the following, Montana, Dilfer, Johnson, Peyton and Eli are not great runners.

Top ten passer, partially due to his ability to make plays when the pocket breaks down, and a top runner is good enough to win championships on a good team.