Just now, austinfan said:

Go look at QB trades. Teams trade 1st rd value for middle of the road starters on a regular basis. Remember Bradford?

What about Mayfield most recently? 

Just now, Ipiggles said:

who could have forseen this?

 

It’s gross. I had a sliver of hope coming into the season that we’d have reports of Hurts working from the pocket consistently….instead, there’s reports of him scrambling in 7v7s, can’t throw a TD even in practice, and his throws have been off target and behind on slants (slants were a key pass I wanted to see improvement on)

We are going to have a very similar year to last season it seems. Sigh

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Go look at QB trades. Teams trade 1st rd value for middle of the road starters on a regular basis. Remember Bradford?

Bradford was also the number one pick in the draft and a highly touted prospect coming out 

25 minutes ago, Utebird said:

NFL doing stupid NFL things 

Ridley got a year for betting on himself and his team.

Hopkins got 6 games for PED violation.

Rothlisberger got 6 games for one sexual assault settled in court 

Deshaun 25 seperate accusations of sexual misconduct/assault- 6 games.🤷‍♂️

Stupid ruling but whatever, won't take away that deshaun is a creep and shouldn't be near women or kids.

I haven't read up on this as much as most, but I assume the Rothlesburger precedent of 6 games weighed heavy here.

Big Ben probably did something wrong.  Nobody could prove it.  I'd argue that he should either get 0 games because it can't be proven or get thrown out of the league for what he did.  Watson probably did something wrong, but it's not proven.  So the league gave him a 6 game slap on the wrist.  That appears to be the going rate for something that is unproven but looks bad.

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Go look at QB trades. Teams trade 1st rd value for middle of the road starters on a regular basis. Remember Bradford?

Baker Mayfield was traded for a conditional 2024 pick, once again, you are wrong.

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

Go look at QB trades. Teams trade 1st rd value for middle of the road starters on a regular basis. Remember Bradford?

Bradford was a unique situation. The Vikings were a loaded team and lost their QB to which could have been a career ending injury. They took a gamble which probably would have paid off if Bradford could stay healthy. 
 

I can’t see any team trading a 1st for Hurts. Bradford was a better passer. 

2 hours ago, Bacarty2 said:

Lot to unwrap here.

Hurts, home picked 2nd rounder, is average and gets handed a job. Minshew is a 6th rounder, whos average and doesnt get to have a competiton.

Again with this Jaguars talk. The F****ING BLOW. No one wins there. Stop saying "he couldnt do anything in Jacksonville"

And finally, I think we could have an argument on who has more tools in his bag, Minshew or hurts. In my opinion, Minshew can read a defense better, has better timing and better at anticipation throws. I'll take those "tools" over, being very athletic, and runs well. 

I truly believe if Minshew started Training Camp as QB1, and played the entire season he'd have the same amount of wins as Hurts, if not more...

If anyone in the league thought Minshew could start, they would have traded for him, they could have offered a 5th last year.

This year, they could probably pry him away with a 3rd rd pick.

There hasn't been a single rumor about any team being interested in Minshew.

Mayfield was a salary dump by a team that wanted to get out of a bad situation - addition by subtraction.

Where you were picked doesn't matter 2-3 years later, once a QB is damaged goods, their value plummets, see Rosen, et al.

If Lawrence struggles again this year and is in the bottom 5, Jax would struggle to get a 1st rd pick for him. Same with Fields, Lance, et al., and especially after their 3rd season - if by year three you're not in the top 20 or so, you're headed toward a permanent position as a backup and hope you get a second chance due to injury. At that point, you're middle round pick trade value.

What do you think Dan Jones would garner in a trade?

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

It’s gross. I had a sliver of hope coming into the season that we’d have reports of Hurts working from the pocket consistently….instead, there’s reports of him scrambling in 7v7s, can’t throw a TD even in practice, and his throws have been off target and behind on slants (slants were a key pass I wanted to see improvement on)

We are going to have a very similar year to last season it seems. Sigh

Yup.

Sad to hear reports of hurts tucking and running in 7 on 7.

There is zero reason or benefit to anyone when the QB runs in 7 on 7

Clearly shows his lack of anticipation In the passing game which isn't surprising as he's never shown much anticipation In the passing game in college or the pros.

4 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

It’s gross. I had a sliver of hope coming into the season that we’d have reports of Hurts working from the pocket consistently….instead, there’s reports of him scrambling in 7v7s, can’t throw a TD even in practice, and his throws have been off target and behind on slants (slants were a key pass I wanted to see improvement on)

We are going to have a very similar year to last season it seems. Sigh

It's kinda odd they are having him throw less this year than last year in TC. You would hope it would be the opposite. 

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I haven't read up on this as much as most, but I assume the Rothlesburger precedent of 6 games weighed heavy here.

Big Ben probably did something wrong.  Nobody could prove it.  I'd argue that he should either get 0 games because it can't be proven or get thrown out of the league for what he did.  Watson probably did something wrong, but it's not proven.  So the league gave him a 6 game slap on the wrist.  That appears to be the going rate for something that is unproven but looks bad.

Yup.

Sexual misconduct/ assault cases without video evidence or secondary witnesses are extremely difficult to prosecute as it comes down to he said she said.

Even in the case of the Stanford swimmer where there were two eye witnesses to sexual assault the judge Gave the guy a slap on the wrist.

It's disappointing but not surprising so like I said whatever☹️

Hopefully the victims will find some closure and healing in whatever they settled for in civil court.

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

If anyone in the league thought Minshew could start, they would have traded for him, they could have offered a 5th last year.

This year, they could probably pry him away with a 3rd rd pick.

There hasn't been a single rumor about any team being interested in Minshew.

Mayfield was a salary dump by a team that wanted to get out of a bad situation - addition by subtraction.

Where you were picked doesn't matter 2-3 years later, once a QB is damaged goods, their value plummets, see Rosen, et al.

If Lawrence struggles again this year and is in the bottom 5, Jax would struggle to get a 1st rd pick for him. Same with Fields, Lance, et al., and especially after their 3rd season - if by year three you're not in the top 20 or so, you're headed toward a permanent position as a backup and hope you get a second chance due to injury. At that point, you're middle round pick trade value.

What do you think Dan Jones would garner in a trade?

 

3 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

It’s gross. I had a sliver of hope coming into the season that we’d have reports of Hurts working from the pocket consistently….instead, there’s reports of him scrambling in 7v7s, can’t throw a TD even in practice, and his throws have been off target and behind on slants (slants were a key pass I wanted to see improvement on)

We are going to have a very similar year to last season it seems. Sigh

For whatever it's worth, reports of Hurts in camp last year were nearly identical to this.  And ironically, his absolute best, cleanest, most surgical passing game of the entire 2021 season (by far, actually) came in week 1.

I could see a similar trajectory for 2022.  If Hurts' limitations are on display in camp, they'll lean on the OL and running game early, treating Hurts like a rookie, and will allow him to be very efficient in the first couple weeks.  As they open up the playbook, as we saw in 2021, things will go off the rails.  And then they'll start racking up wins against an easy schedule later in the year when they realize the secret to success is not allowing their QB to pass the ball.  That will get them into the playoffs with an ugly round 1 exit.

5 minutes ago, austinfan said:

If anyone in the league thought Minshew could start, they would have traded for him, they could have offered a 5th last year.

This year, they could probably pry him away with a 3rd rd pick.

There hasn't been a single rumor about any team being interested in Minshew.

Mayfield was a salary dump by a team that wanted to get out of a bad situation - addition by subtraction.

Where you were picked doesn't matter 2-3 years later, once a QB is damaged goods, their value plummets, see Rosen, et al.

If Lawrence struggles again this year and is in the bottom 5, Jax would struggle to get a 1st rd pick for him. Same with Fields, Lance, et al., and especially after their 3rd season - if by year three you're not in the top 20 or so, you're headed toward a permanent position as a backup and hope you get a second chance due to injury. At that point, you're middle round pick trade value.

What do you think Dan Jones would garner in a trade?

So Hurts

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

11 passes in a practice for QB1.  That concerns me and should concern other Hurts fans.  

It's actually a good thing

12 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

It’s gross. I had a sliver of hope coming into the season that we’d have reports of Hurts working from the pocket consistently….instead, there’s reports of him scrambling in 7v7s, can’t throw a TD even in practice, and his throws have been off target and behind on slants (slants were a key pass I wanted to see improvement on)

We are going to have a very similar year to last season it seems. Sigh

two things-

 

1) It's early yet- plenty of time for him to improve

2) The definition of insanity is to do the same things expecting a different outcome. -

I have seen this movie all too often in the NFL - Hurts is who he is, his instincts are to run when when pressured or confused. He is no different than every other run first QB who makes it to the NFL- so used to relying on athletic ability, they never really force themselves to progress as a pocket passer.  

 

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

 

What do you think Dan Jones would garner in a trade?

Nick foles and a 1st if Chip Kelly were trading for him...🤔

1 minute ago, Utebird said:

Yup.

Sexual misconduct/ assault cases without video evidence or secondary witnesses are extremely difficult to prosecute as it comes down to he said she said.

Even in the case of the Stanford swimmer where there were two eye witnesses to sexual assault the judge Gave the guy a slap on the wrist.

It's disappointing but not surprising so like I said whatever☹️

Hopefully the victims will find some closure and healing in whatever they settled for in civil court.

I'm never pro NFL, but they are in a tough place.  It's not easy to take the law into your own hands for a unionized employee when they have not been convicted of something in the court of law.  Likewise, if that employee does something that jeopardizes the integrity of your product (gambling, PEDs, etc), then it IS easy and within your powers to bring the hammer down hard.  Sure, that doesn't measure up on the spectrum of crimes against humanity, but that is the realm where the NFL has a mandate as judge, jury, and executioner.  

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I mean run faster

I have to admit your knowledge of football is impressive. 

 

35 minutes ago, Utebird said:

NFL doing stupid NFL things 

Ridley got a year for betting on himself and his team.

Hopkins got 6 games for PED violation.

Rothlisberger got 6 games for one sexual assault settled in court 

Deshaun 25 seperate accusations of sexual misconduct/assault- 6 games.🤷‍♂️

Stupid ruling but whatever, won't take away that deshaun is a creep and shouldn't be near women or kids.

The PED policy is in the CBA so it's not discretionary and was agreed to by the NFLPA.  Betting on your own team impacts the integrity of the game.   

I don't agree with the 6 games and don't understand why it wouldn't be more.  I don't think this was the NFL's doing. They had an indepedent arbitrator make the ruling.  I am guessing she felt bound by the past precedent. 

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

For whatever it's worth, reports of Hurts in camp last year were nearly identical to this.  And ironically, his absolute best, cleanest, most surgical passing game of the entire 2021 season (by far, actually) came in week 1.

I could see a similar trajectory for 2022.  If Hurts' limitations are on display in camp, they'll lean on the OL and running game early, treating Hurts like a rookie, and will allow him to be very efficient in the first couple weeks.  As they open up the playbook, as we saw in 2021, things will go off the rails.  And then they'll start racking up wins against an easy schedule later in the year when they realize the secret to success is not allowing their QB to pass the ball.  That will get them into the playoffs with an ugly round 1 exit.

Deja Vu ☹️

If you can get a first for Hurts- You do that trade today.  DOnt wait till end of season, he wiill be worth less after this season. 

Dont wait- do it NOW! We aren't winning the SB with Hurts as QB this year anyway. 

10 minutes ago, austinfan said:

If anyone in the league thought Minshew could start, they would have traded for him, they could have offered a 5th last year.

This year, they could probably pry him away with a 3rd rd pick.

There hasn't been a single rumor about any team being interested in Minshew.

Mayfield was a salary dump by a team that wanted to get out of a bad situation - addition by subtraction.

Where you were picked doesn't matter 2-3 years later, once a QB is damaged goods, their value plummets, see Rosen, et al.

If Lawrence struggles again this year and is in the bottom 5, Jax would struggle to get a 1st rd pick for him. Same with Fields, Lance, et al., and especially after their 3rd season - if by year three you're not in the top 20 or so, you're headed toward a permanent position as a backup and hope you get a second chance due to injury. At that point, you're middle round pick trade value.

What do you think Dan Jones would garner in a trade?

Interesting.  

1.  I thought backups had 2nd round value.

2. Trevor "most talented prospect since Luck" Lawrence gets 2 years but Jalen Hurts deserves 3?  

Oct 16, Game 6 at home versus Dallas. That's where we will know where we stand with Hurts.

1 minute ago, Ipiggles said:

If you can get a first for Hurts- You do that trade today.  DOnt wait till end of season, he wiill be worth less after this season. 

Dont wait- do it NOW! We aren't winning the SB with Hurts as QB this year anyway. 

Yup, if Howie could wrestle a 1st rounder away from a team for Hurts he would have done it yesterday.

No team is hopping on the phone talking to Howie saying we need Hurts on our roster and if Howie hopped on the phone And floated a 1st for hurts he'd get laughed into the basement.

 

I see 3 scenarios with Hurts:

1. Tyrod Taylor in Buffalo.  Surrounded by solid weapons and OL, he puts up some surprisingly good "combined" pass/rush numbers.  It gets him to a pro-bowl.  The hype surges and everyone in Hurts' corner beams with pride.  Eagles go to the playoffs, either losing immediately or winning a game against a mediocre team.  Hurts gets extended for meaningful, but not eye-popping money.  3-4 years slip away quietly until the bottom falls out as his running ability fades.  

2.  Hurts' performance mirrors scenario #1, but Lurie knows what he wants and that ain't it.  Hurts is controversially allowed to walk at the end of his contract.

3.  Hurts is at his 2021 levels (or marginally better) and they immediately seek out a replacement for 2022.

I don't see a door 4 with a happier ending (all Desean Watson jokes aside).  I see #3 as the best option for the franchise.  Easiest, cleanest break to move forward.

Just now, eagle45 said:

I'm never pro NFL, but they are in a tough place.  It's not easy to take the law into your own hands for a unionized employee when they have not been convicted of something in the court of law.  Likewise, if that employee does something that jeopardizes the integrity of your product (gambling, PEDs, etc), then it IS easy and within your powers to bring the hammer down hard.  Sure, that doesn't measure up on the spectrum of crimes against humanity, but that is the realm where the NFL has a mandate as judge, jury, and executioner.  

There are plenty of professions where there would be no formal sanction from a professional organization or impact to their career.  The players and the League have agreed to a formal discipline process in these situations.  The union has agreed to be subject to the process.  Due process for the employee isn't a hurdle.  I mean if a doctor or lawyer is facing discipline there isn't some summary process.  There is a formal hearing where the person facing the discipline gets to present a defense.  I don't see this process as any different. It's not great but The NFL was pushing for a longer suspension.  It didn't seem like some wink and nod agreement for the 6 games.