16 minutes ago, mattwill said:

I don’t disagree with your conclusions, but NFL history has numerous successful QBs who were not first and foremost "pocket passers”

What? Name one.

Randall Cunningham wasn’t even successful until he became a pocket passer in Minnesota.

Just now, Texas Eagle said:

How many wide open players did he miss that game? Was that more Mailata’s or Kelcie’s fault? Or maybe Lane?

I think if you watched the game film you would understand that the oline play was very poor. But I guess you don't want to evolve beyond "Hurts bad" thinking, so that's fine. 

But you are really making a bold statement that Hurts is headed for an abysmal season because the league has him figured out. We will revisit that in a few weeks. 

2 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I think if you watched the game film you would understand that the oline play was very poor. But I guess you don't want to evolve beyond "Hurts bad" thinking, so that's fine. 

But you are really making a bold statement that Hurts is headed for an abysmal season because the league has him figured out. We will revisit that in a few weeks. 

Lol okay bud. Let me leave this here for you coach.

 

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Who?  Please name 3 that couldn't be counted to lead their team from behind by throwing the ball.

That is a different standard of judgment than being a pocket passer.  Is Patrick Mahomes a pocket passer?  Russell Wilson? Doug Williams?  Steve Young?  Roger Staubach?  Fran Tarkenton?

I have no problems with the criticisms of the specifics of Hurts’ individual performance.  Where I differ from you and others is the rush to judgment.  Further, I found the Eagles of 2021 very entertaining … one of the most entertaining teams in the NFL.  I also believe they exceeded expectations in their performance as a team despite falling below expectations on Defense.  Their very entertaining Offense was the reason for that.  So, I am not in any rush to make a judgment on Hurts and I actually expect the team to be even more entertaining in 2022 than they were in 2021.

2 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

Are you ready for Skoronski (Northwestern) vs Mathis (Nebraska) today. Maybe the top OT in the draft going against a big time pass rusher. 

Check it out if you have time. Im sure people will be asking you about Skoronski when we get closer to the draft.

Thank you, I will.

10 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I think if you watched the game film you would understand that the oline play was very poor. But I guess you don't want to evolve beyond "Hurts bad" thinking, so that's fine. 

But you are really making a bold statement that Hurts is headed for an abysmal season because the league has him figured out. We will revisit that in a few weeks. 

His last five regular season games he threw 3tds compared to 4 ints with 3 games under 60% one of those being under 50% and surpassed 200 yards only twice. It can be argued he had been figured out completely as a passer before last season ended

 

4 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

His last five regular season games he threw 3tds compared to 4 ints with 3 games under 60% one of those being under 50% and surpassed 200 yards only twice. It can be argued he had been figured out completely as a passer before last season ended

 

His last 3 regular season games his qb ratings were 110, 105 and 91, by far the best three game stretch of the season. 

But I guess he was figured out. 

2 hours ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Josh Allen didn't throw the ball like he does when he was in college or the first two years in the league.  He wasn't anything close to a consistent passer but he worked on his game.  He was drafted as high as he was because of his physical ability, a large mobile strong QB with a very strong arm.  He was extremely raw though and if this organization drafted him many here would have been trying to run him out of town after his second season. 

That strong arm you're talking about is skill. 

 

32 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Burrow and Herbert come immediately to mind 

Agreed.  Here is the list of 2020 drafted QBs.  Burrow was taken with the #1 pick and Herbert with the #6 pick.  So they have met the expectations that existed prior to the draft.  I put Hurts in ahead of the other two 1st Round QBs Tua and Love. 

Joe Burrow

Tua Tagovailoa

Justin Herbert

Jordan Love

Jalen Hurts

Jacob Eason

James Morgan

Jake Fromm

Jake Luton

Cole McDonald

Ben DiNucci

Tommy Stevens

Nate Stanley   Now lets look at the 2021 drafted QBs.  Which of them do you believe could have led the Eagles to a better 2021 record? Trevor Lawrence Zach Wilson Trey Lance Justin Fields Mac Jones Kyle Trask Kellen Mond Davis Mills Ian Book Sam Ehlinger

finally some college football 

2 minutes ago, mattwill said:

 

Agreed.  Here is the list of 2020 drafted QBs.  Burrow was taken with the #1 pick and Herbert with the #6 pick.  So they have met the expectations that existed prior to the draft.  I put Hurts in ahead of the other two 1st Round QBs Tua and Love. 

Joe Burrow

Tua Tagovailoa

Justin Herbert

Jordan Love

Jalen Hurts

Jacob Eason

James Morgan

Jake Fromm

Jake Luton

Cole McDonald

Ben DiNucci

Tommy Stevens

Nate Stanley

Tua will be an interesting watch this year. It may not be so cut and dry that Hurts is better than him by definition of a qb

12 minutes ago, mattwill said:

That is a different standard of judgment than being a pocket passer.  Is Patrick Mahomes a pocket passer?  Russell Wilson? Doug Williams?  Steve Young?  Roger Staubach?  Fran Tarkenton?

I have no problems with the criticisms of the specifics of Hurts’ individual performance.  Where I differ from you and others is the rush to judgment.  Further, I found the Eagles of 2021 very entertaining … one of the most entertaining teams in the NFL.  I also believe they exceeded expectations in their performance as a team despite falling below expectations on Defense.  Their very entertaining Offense was the reason for that.  So, I am not in any rush to make a judgment on Hurts and I actually expect the team to be even more entertaining in 2022 than they were in 2021.

I made 3 negative assertions... wasn't good as a passer (not limited to pocket or not), wasn't good with vision (that's vision inside and outside the pocket, btw), and isn't good playing from the pocket...  and one positive one he's good when allowed to run and improv.

You chose to focus on one of those - pocket passing.

All of those players you mention have/had far better vision, arm talent and anticipation.  Young took a rebuild from Bill Walsh to become that.

4 minutes ago, mattwill said:

 

Agreed.  Here is the list of 2020 drafted QBs.  Burrow was taken with the #1 pick and Herbert with the #6 pick.  So they have met the expectations that existed prior to the draft.  I put Hurts in ahead of the other two 1st Round QBs Tua and Love. 

Joe Burrow

Tua Tagovailoa

Justin Herbert

Jordan Love

Jalen Hurts

Jacob Eason

James Morgan

Jake Fromm

Jake Luton

Cole McDonald

Ben DiNucci

Tommy Stevens

Nate Stanley   Now lets look at the 2021 drafted QBs.  Which of them do you believe could have led the Eagles to a better 2021 record? Trevor Lawrence Zach Wilson Trey Lance Justin Fields Mac Jones Kyle Trask Kellen Mond Davis Mills Ian Book Sam Ehlinger

Jones.

7 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

His last 3 regular season games his qb ratings were 110, 105 and 91, by far the best three game stretch of the season. 

But I guess he was figured out. 

I used a five game stretch. What was the QB rating of the other two games. I want you to type it out for me

9 minutes ago, mattwill said:

 

Agreed.  Here is the list of 2020 drafted QBs.  Burrow was taken with the #1 pick and Herbert with the #6 pick.  So they have met the expectations that existed prior to the draft.  I put Hurts in ahead of the other two 1st Round QBs Tua and Love. 

Joe Burrow

Tua Tagovailoa

Justin Herbert

Jordan Love

Jalen Hurts

Jacob Eason

James Morgan

Jake Fromm

Jake Luton

Cole McDonald

Ben DiNucci

Tommy Stevens

Nate Stanley   Now lets look at the 2021 drafted QBs.  Which of them do you believe could have led the Eagles to a better 2021 record? Trevor Lawrence Zach Wilson Trey Lance Justin Fields Mac Jones Kyle Trask Kellen Mond Davis Mills Ian Book Sam Ehlinger

Too early to tell on Love to be fair. We haven't been able to see him in any real action yet. Same with Lance. 

6 minutes ago, mattwill said:

 

Agreed.  Here is the list of 2020 drafted QBs.  Burrow was taken with the #1 pick and Herbert with the #6 pick.  So they have met the expectations that existed prior to the draft.  I put Hurts in ahead of the other two 1st Round QBs Tua and Love. 

Joe Burrow

Tua Tagovailoa

Justin Herbert

Jordan Love

Jalen Hurts

Jacob Eason

James Morgan

Jake Fromm

Jake Luton

Cole McDonald

Ben DiNucci

Tommy Stevens

Nate Stanley   Now lets look at the 2021 drafted QBs.  Which of them do you believe could have led the Eagles to a better 2021 record? Trevor Lawrence Zach Wilson Trey Lance Justin Fields Mac Jones Kyle Trask Kellen Mond Davis Mills Ian Book Sam Ehlinger

Jones and possibly Lawrence with a real coach and this roster. Mills is someone I am keeping an eye on this year. His numbers were pretty good when he figured it out mid season 

50 minutes ago, mattwill said:

What are your criteria of judgment when you come to that conclusion? 

First, here is the definition of average

a number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.

There is 

32 teams in the NFL, so average is 16, here is where Hurts ranks in passing categories in 2021.

Passing yards - 21st

Passing TD's - 23rd

Completion % - 28th

TD % - 24th

Int % - 14th

QBR ( the stat that accounts for rushing ) - 19th

Actually, thanks for making me dive in, I have to correct myself, he is below average.

1 minute ago, Shalodeep said:

I used a five game stretch. What was the QB rating of the other two games. I want you to type it out for me

17 and 72. He had two bad games. But your assertion was that the league figured him out late in the season. If that was true, why did he get better? The 17 was against the giants, and three weeks later he was over 100. Did they forget they figured him out? 

1 minute ago, jsb235 said:

17 and 72. He had two bad games. But your assertion was that the league figured him out late in the season. If that was true, why did he get better? The 17 was against the giants, and three weeks later he was over 100. Did they forget they figured him out? 

 

6 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

17 and 72. He had two bad games. But your assertion was that the league figured him out late in the season. If that was true, why did he get better? The 17 was against the giants, and three weeks later he was over 100. Did they forget they figured him out? 

Did he? He played Washington twice and New York. 

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

Appreciate it.  They are tremendous companions.  I never considered boxers as I thought they were a bit intimidating with the cropped ears....then I met a natural eared boxer and realized just how damn goofy and loving they are.  Absolutely wonderful for families.  I can't imagine getting a call that he got hit.  My guy was only 8 but had congestive heart failure.  75 pounder too.

Yeah they're big goofy dogs great with kids too, sucks about his heart, boxers are prone to that unfortunately.

I'm glad he was such a great guy for the 8 years  you were with him, 8 years seems so short,I wish dogs lived as long as parrots 

Again condolences it's never easy losing a pet.☹️

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

I made 3 negative assertions... wasn't good as a passer (not limited to pocket or not), wasn't good with vision (that's vision inside and outside the pocket, btw), and isn't good playing from the pocket...  and one positive one he's good when allowed to run and improv.

You chose to focus on one of those - pocket passing.

All of those players you mention have/had far better vision, arm talent and anticipation.  Young took a rebuild from Bill Walsh to become that.

I saw vision, arm talent and anticipation as being subcomponents of the higher level category pocket passer.  That wasn't to discount them.  I just saw them as being at a different level.  The myriad criticisms I have read here in the Blog over the past nine months have really focused on the fact that the posters want a pocket passer because they see that as matching the way today's NFL plays the game.  Tied with that pocket passer issue has been the complaint that he isn't a Super Bowl winning QB. I respect those criteria for success.  I just don't subscribe to them.  My criteria of success is much simpler and it renews once every week (rather than once every year as the SB winning success criteria does) ... I want to be entertained by what I am watching ... and I admit to having a bias ... I watched Jimmy Brown play in person and many, many times on TV.  Similarly I watched Walter Payton and Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith and Brian Westbrook and Earl Campbell and Fran Tarkenton and Randall Cunningham and Steve Young and so many others ply their trade. They and the Offensive Linemen doing the hard work in front of them were like watching ballet.  I don't get the same level of enjoyment from a highlight pass play as I get from a highlight running play.  I get shivvers thinking about Shady running through the snow, or Westbrook running back the punt against the Giants.  I don't remember pass plays with that same vividness.  I realize that is my bias ... and I consider winning the Super Bowl as gravy, not the main course.

9 minutes ago, downundermike said:

First, here is the definition of average

 

 

There is 

32 teams in the NFL, so average is 16, here is where Hurts ranks in passing categories in 2021.

Passing yards - 21st

Passing TD's - 23rd

Completion % - 28th

TD % - 24th

Int % - 14th

QBR ( the stat that accounts for rushing ) - 19th

Actually, thanks for making me dive in, I have to correct myself, he is below average.

That is a granular approach, and I respect it.  I prefer to look at QB play from a more holistic perspective.

That is also only a partial approach ... only focusing on passing.  My biases ... and I recognize tham as biases ... is to look at all the facets of a player's performance, not just a partial sample.

39 minutes ago, SB52 said:

What? Name one.

Randall Cunningham wasn’t even successful until he became a pocket passer in Minnesota.

Uh, say what? Cunningham was coming on once they got him a QB coach (who literally died on him), but he also played behind a god awful offensive line.

1990:  583%, 7.5 ypa, 30 TD - 13 Int  Rating 91.6.

The falloff to McMahon in 1991 when he got injured was dramatic.

49 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

My issue is his decision in the rpos,his lack of fundamentals and mechanics within the pocket, and his below average throwing skills. Yours?

The RPO is a one read/run decision, because the OL are run blocking and will be upfield if you try to find a second read.

Just now, austinfan said:

The RPO is a one read/run decision, because the OL are run blocking and will be upfield if you try to find a second read.

I meant his constant choice to call his own number