Why bring Doc back?  Makes no sense to me

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

For context -- When exactly are people arguing that Howie would/should have been fired?  Before the Super Bowl season? After 2020 when the team bottomed out with 4 wins and Doug was fired?

Idk, there were a few bad off seasons "on paper” in a row. And they turned out as bad as they seemed "on paper”.

That said, this offseason has been pretty darn good "on paper”. We’ll see how it turns out. 
 

Howie certainly has his flaws, but I’d say the front seven is 2-3x as good as last year and the offense is slightly better. The back 4/5 is maybe not quite as good, but hopefully some more pressure and better tackling up front can get opposing QBs under 80% completion percentage 

46 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

You're seriously trying to equate 2022 Eagles injury concerns to those from 2017-2020? Insanity.

Your initial point was essentially that Howie wasn't held accountable for his failures from 2018-2020. But what really makes sense, firing him to "hold him accountable," or putting the right guy in the GM seat moving forward?

Howie has changed the way he makes personnel decisions, that much is clear as day. The young talent acquired the past two years as a result of that change is so far proving Lurie right.

We've seen Carson be the same frustrating Carson he's been for a while. We've seen Doug make the same dumb coaching hires he tried to make while he was here. We've seen Howie adapt and restock this roster with a lot of encouraging young talent.

You can always respond with some variation of "we can't know for sure," but before you continue doing that, think how you would respond if a poster used similar logic to explain why Jalen Hurts wasn't better last year.

Uh... no.  I was asked what makes you sure that the injuries of 2017-2020 would plague the team in 2021 under Pederson were they retained?  What did Sirianni do differently to prevent it?  Give me something to show that a variable was changed.  You said we'd be worried about Smith's injury plagued year, Dickerson's injury and Lane's age.  Well, we should be worried about Lane, we should be worried about Dickerson holding up for a full NFL season.  Smith, on the other hand, is a made up scenario that didn't happen one way or the other.  

 

Howie should have been held accountable.  He wasn't.  But, what he's done since then isn't some great feat.  He made a 4 win team into a 9 win team with a cupcake schedule.  GMs do that with teams constantly... and then they fall back down again.  So, what has he done that another GM couldn't do?  So far... not a whole lot.  Do we give him all kinds of credit for getting an extra first for next year?  Not really.  How many other teams also have multiple first round picks for 2023?  Houston has two. Detroit has two. Miami has two.    Are you saying that no other GM could have done that for the Eagles?  

 

Howie changed the way he makes personnel decisions?  How so?  What dramatic change did we see?  He invested heavily in WR... again.  He invested heavily in OL... again.  He essentially ignored the secondary... again.  Where's this dramatic shift?  

 

Howie changed his contract structures?  Nope.  He's still kicking the can down the road, and he's still paying old players for their past performance not their current levels - see the Fletcher Cox 'restructure' this past March for an example.  If he was really looking to turn the page, then just let him go and not resign him after cutting him and save the $14M.  But, instead, he brought him back, and we continue to be overly invested at DT and still fairly light on the edge.  

 

Ultimately, I haven't seen much from Howie to say that there's been some massive shift in his philosophy, and frankly, just as I said earlier... the build up from 4 wins to 9 wins is relatively easy in the NFL.  It is getting up to 11, 12, 13 wins and maintaining that, being a legit Super Bowl contender that is actually the hard part.  Howie hasn't proven that he's learned how to do that yet, because we haven't reached that portion of the rebuild.  IF we do, and IF he actually shows that he's not willing to pour tons of money into aging players that are well past their prime, then we can revisit this.  But, there's no way to say that it was a (to quote you) 'great' decision to bring him back.  There's no evidence of that yet.

 

2020 to 2021...
Eagles went from 4 wins to 9 wins.  
Bengals went from 4 wins to the Super Bowl.
49ers 6 wins to 10 wins, including a trip to the NFC CG.

 

So, there were some GMs that maybe did better than he did.  And there were some that did worse.  I've never said he was the worst in the league, only that he should be held accountable for his mistakes, the same as the rest of the group that failed. 

 

BTW, Bringing up what Wentz is doesn't matter.  First, he was moved, but interestingly, Roseman wanted to bring him back, but Wentz didn't want to come back.  So, do we give Roseman credit for pulling the plug on Wentz, or thank Wentz for forcing his hand? 

6 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

For context -- When exactly are people arguing that Howie would/should have been fired?  Before the Super Bowl season?  After 2020 when the team bottomed out with 4 wins and Doug was fired? 

Yes.  Howie was just as much to blame for the failure of 2020 as anyone else in the building, maybe more so.  

4 minutes ago, garingovt2000 said:

Why bring Doc back?  Makes no sense to me

Because Morey is a POS just like Doc. F next season you can write it off now.

The Cowboys' first six games...

1 - TB (SNF)
2 - CIN
3 - at NYG (MNF)
4 - WAS
5 - at LAR
6 - at PHI (SNF)

They could very well be 2-3 heading into our game week 6.

10 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

I don't see how. At least not in a way that makes sense.  The big trade target QBs wouldn't want to come to a rebuilding team. That leaves stop gap types or dipping into a  crappy draft class.  I think most GMs would rather let things play out with Hurts but stock up for 2023 than go either of those routes. 

Stop gap types are fine during rebuilding. Most usually use those

43 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

From what Kelce has said, Sirianni is doing much better managing vets and making sure they have a lot of rest during the season.  He said that he would have retired if he was still playing under Doug.  I don't know whether that is all Sirianni but I do think they are not moving to not much in the way of contact.  I am not sure whether that directly prevents injuries.  I will say that Lane only played 12 games in 2019 and 7 in 2020 because of his ankle.  He played 13 last season and only missed time because of the mental health issue.  I don't know what the total number of games missed by starters was in 2021 but given that they set a record for line combos the year before, I think it must have been less.  2020 may be impacted by missed games due to Covid as well.  

Kelce being back is nice, but we still have the same problem, just delayed a year.  We needed a center.  The nice part is we might be able to bring Jurgens along more slowly.  Then again, he might need to get thrown to the wolves at RG.

Lane's 13 games last year is nice, but even Peters managed to play 16 games in 2018 under Doug at age 36.  Older players can manage to stay healthy for an isolated season.  I doubt we'll get 13 games out of Lane this year.  The bigger issue with Pederson (and Howie) in 2018, 2019, 2020, was the fact that they were forced to rely on these aging vets and more importantly didn't have the players behind them to fill in when they went down.  2020 was an anomaly in terms of injury load for the OL specifically.  But, it would have been nice if they had some young depth in place.  They seem to have more pieces in place now, but still aren't that deep.  We don't have a reliable backup RT unless the plan is to flip Mailata and insert Dillard at LT.  We have no idea who the RG is going to be, but likely a battle between 2 guys who haven't been able to stay healthy and a rookie.  And we have a 34 year old center who has been extremely durable and willing to play through injuries, but that's not going to last forever.  This coming year might be when his luck runs out.  

41 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Where they are now but without the GM that screwed up the roster from 2018 to 2020.  

pretty much... exactly this.

4 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Stop gap types are fine during rebuilding. Most usually use those

I just don't see the point in paying a stop gap over just using Hurts at this point. I'm all for moving on but that just seems like a poor use of resources for any GM. 

1 minute ago, DEagle7 said:

I just don't see the point in paying a stop gap over just using Hurts at this point. I'm all for moving on but that just seems like a poor use of resources for any GM. 

New GM/HC may want a passer and not a runner

Minshew is cheaper than Hurts

It's not like stopgaps are expensive

18 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

I don't see how. At least not in a way that makes sense.  The big trade target QBs wouldn't want to come to a rebuilding team. That leaves stop gap types or dipping into a  crappy draft class.  I think most GMs would rather let things play out with Hurts but stock up for 2023 than go either of those routes. 

The only scenario I think there would be is Carson stays and the new GM moves Hurts. Not that it's some great alternative. 

57 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

From what Kelce has said, Sirianni is doing much better managing vets and making sure they have a lot of rest during the season.  He said that he would have retired if he was still playing under Doug.  I don't know whether that is all Sirianni but I do think they are not moving to not much in the way of contact.  I am not sure whether that directly prevents injuries.  I will say that Lane only played 12 games in 2019 and 7 in 2020 because of his ankle.  He played 13 last season and only missed time because of the mental health issue.  I don't know what the total number of games missed by starters was in 2021 but given that they set a record for line combos the year before, I think it must have been less.  2020 may be impacted by missed games due to Covid as well.  

I was thinking about this and I seem to remember Doug letting vets have time off from practices during the season as well. 

3 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

I just don't see the point in paying a stop gap over just using Hurts at this point. I'm all for moving on but that just seems like a poor use of resources for any GM. 

According to some in the league Hurts is a good qb. This is the time to get maximum value in a trade for him. Not saying what's right just saying it's a reason

12 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

The Cowboys' first six games...

1 - TB (SNF)
2 - CIN
3 - at NYG (MNF)
4 - WAS
5 - at LAR
6 - at PHI (SNF)

They could very well be 2-3 heading into our game week 6.

they could be 0-5 too

26 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

For context -- When exactly are people arguing that Howie would/should have been fired?  Before the Super Bowl season? After 2020 when the team bottomed out with 4 wins and Doug was fired?

The Super Bowl and the re-build after Chips demise were his greatest accomplishments. These years since then haven't been that good. We're 5 years out since the Super Bowl win and probably not going to be competitive this year either.

Howie just has put together two great offseason, **** all you want, but facts are facts.

He got three solid prospects, a future 1st and 2nd, a top 24 year old WR, and replaced those last round picks with a huge UDFA haul. Can't play it much better than that!

But some people will never be happy if they're denied their ITYS.

Is it any surprise that Hurts sucks at free throws too?

Click the link in the gray box to watch on youtube. eagles blocked their vids from playing on this website. 

 

19 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

The Cowboys' first six games...

1 - TB (SNF)
2 - CIN
3 - at NYG (MNF)
4 - WAS
5 - at LAR
6 - at PHI (SNF)

They could very well be 2-3 heading into our game week 6.

Eagles could very well be the same 2-3.  

1 - Lions
2 - Vikings
3 - Commanders
4 - Jags
5 - Cardinals

 

I see the Lions and Jags as the most likely wins.  Washington is about a 50/50 toss up, and I expect losses to the Vikings and Cards.

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Howie just has put together two great offseason, **** all you want, but facts are facts.

He got three solid prospects, a future 1st and 2nd, a top 24 year old WR, and replaced those last round picks with a huge UDFA haul. Can't play it much better than that!

But some people will never be happy if they're denied their ITYS.

Opinions are opinions. Calling them two 'great' offseasons is an opinion, not a fact.

34 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

For context -- When exactly are people arguing that Howie would/should have been fired?  Before the Super Bowl season? After 2020 when the team bottomed out with 4 wins and Doug was fired?

People were angling for his termination before he became GM 

18 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

The Cowboys' first six games...

1 - TB (SNF)
2 - CIN
3 - at NYG (MNF)
4 - WAS
5 - at LAR
6 - at PHI (SNF)

They could very well be 2-3 heading into our game week 6.

Their schedule is pretty easy in the back half though when ours picks up.

at Minnesota

NYG

Indy

Houston

at Jags

Eagles

Titans

Wash

Depending on how the season goes 6-2 in that stretch seems doable. I think it's going to be a tight race for the division all year. 

 

6 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Is it any surprise that Hurts sucks at free throws too?

Click the link in the gray box to watch on youtube. eagles blocked their vids from playing on this website. 

 

3rd best QB on the roster... 3rd best at shooting foul shots as well.

2 hours ago, The Blackfish said:

Not sure if he was a natural lefty but Vick threw a clean, spiral.  Just not always on target.  

Vick is a natural lefty. He threw one of the best deep balls I've seen. He put some awesome spin on the ball. He just didn't like being in the pocket and kept getting hurt. They tried to keep him in the pocket and he still dove head first and got sandwiched.

I had a kid in high school ask me why all lefties were so smart. It's because the world is not made for us so we have to learn to adapt to a right hand world. You learn from an early age that those metal kids scissors are right handed. You're hand is always covered in ink and if you smudge your paper some spiteful teacher is going to take points off.

37 minutes ago, garingovt2000 said:

Why bring Doc back?  Makes no sense to me

Is there an announcement?

13 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Is it any surprise that Hurts sucks at free throws too?

Click the link in the gray box to watch on youtube. eagles blocked their vids from playing on this website. 

 

Anthony Harris air balled it 

 

 

TWICE!!