August 28, 20223 yr Just now, jsb235 said: I doubt you could. Your contribution so far has been pretty basic. It needed to be. The level of the issue, your understanding of statistics, could only generously be said to rise to the level of basic.
August 28, 20223 yr Author 17 minutes ago, Next_Up said: It needed to be. The level of the issue, your understanding of statistics, could only generously be said to rise to the level of basic. Ok. Then explain why it is better from a math standpoint that the two Giants games this year were weighted differently in terms of Hurts' qbr. That is a pretty basic question, right? From where I sit, I don't see a difference between them. Hurts played the whole game in both. There wasn't an earthquake or tsunami that stopped play. Two games, same qb, different weights. I know why this is (because that's the rating formula used by the NFL), but I want to know if it is a better reflection of reality to use that figure, or if counting each game equally gives a more accurate reflection of the qb's performance. In short, what is the benefit of weighting one game less than the other, if we are discussing a four-game set of data?
August 28, 20223 yr 23 minutes ago, jsb235 said: I am specifically not doing that. In fact, i cited that as a reason why the nfl uses the formula it uses. But here is the issue. As mike pointed out, Hurts had an average rating of 71 in four games, two each against the Giants and WFT. But the raw data from those four games had him with a rating of 79. So the bad game against the giants counted for significantly less than his good one. Thevquestion becomes, is the 79 figure a more accurate representation of his performance over those four games, or is the 71 figure? Essentially, should the first game be weighed less? I don't see a good reason for a yes answer, but if anyone has one, i am all ears. I made this thread to keep the discussion out of the blog. The 79 figure is More accurate yes. The first game is not weighted the same because of the passer ratings system itself, not by anything any of us are doing. For you to have to alter the way passer rating compiles his final number, we’re altering the very purpose of the number itself. If that’s the case, then why are we even using it? Why not do what you’re doing but by quarter? Why not by drive? All of those options equally alter the intended usage of passer rating.
August 28, 20223 yr Just now, jsb235 said: Ok. Then explain why it is better from a math standpoint that the two Giants games this year were weighted differently in terms of Hurts' qbr. That is a pretty basic question, right? From where I sit, I don't see a difference between them. Hurts played the whole game in both. There wasn't an earthquake or tsunami that stopped play. Two games, same qb, different weights. I know why this is (because that's the rating formula used by the NFL), but I want to know if it is a better reflection of reality to use that figure, or if counting each game gives a more accurate reflection of reality. In short, what is the benefit of weighting on game less than the other, if we are discussing a four-game set of data? I already said I have no interest in teaching you statistics. You are on your own, you mad scientist, you.
August 28, 20223 yr Author 5 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said: The 79 figure is More accurate yes. The first game is not weighted the same because of the passer ratings system itself, not by anything any of us are doing. For you to have to alter the way passer rating compiles his final number, we’re altering the very purpose of the number itself. If that’s the case, then why are we even using it? Why not do what you’re doing but by quarter? Why not by drive? All of those options equally alter the intended usage of passer rating. Because games matter. That's how you determine who wins and loses. The stat that we are discussing is supposed to reflect the performance in a game.
August 28, 20223 yr 4 minutes ago, jsb235 said: Because games matter. That's how you determine who wins and loses. The stat that we are discussing is supposed to reflect the performance in a game. From a team perspective it’s a per game system for wins and losses, not individual players. Jalen Hurts is not the Philadelphia Eagles. Players themselves are evaluated for their contributions over the course of a season. No one is broken down into 17 equally weighted games; no game is equal from an individual performance perspective. Far too many variables.
August 28, 20223 yr Author 6 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said: From a team perspective it’s a per game system for wins and losses, not individual players. Jalen Hurts is not the Philadelphia Eagles. Players themselves are evaluated for their contributions over the course of a season. No one is broken down into 17 equally weighted games; no game is equal from an individual performance perspective. Far too many variables. They are, though. Each qb gets a qb rating after each game. If i have one game with a 75 rating and one game with a 125 rating, the idea is I played better in the second game. Your point is that those two games can't be averaged, since every game is different. But unless there is an extenuating circumstance, i don't see why that is true beyond "the nfl doesn't do it," when the reason the nfl doesn't do it is pretty clear. It doesn't seem remotely logical to count two similar games differently unless there is a clear reason to.
August 28, 20223 yr 10 minutes ago, jsb235 said: They are, though. Each qb gets a qb rating after each game. If i have one game with a 75 rating and one game with a 125 rating, the idea is I played better in the second game. Your point is that those two games can't be averaged, since every game is different. But unless there is an extenuating circumstance, i don't see why that is true beyond "the nfl doesn't do it," when the reason the nfl doesn't do it is pretty clear. It doesn't seem remotely logical to count two similar games differently unless there is a clear reason to. To the same regard, I’m not sure where the logic is in segmenting a player’s season as opposed to looking at it as a whole unit. A QB’s involvement in the offense isn’t always equal from game to game, forcing it to be does not make the stat more accurate.
August 28, 20223 yr 3 hours ago, downundermike said: I want you to tell me the rating. According to the NFL it is 78.9. According to you it is 70.5. Which is it ??
August 28, 20223 yr 3 hours ago, downundermike said: I am going to keep pounding this thread with examples showing your method of calculating QB rating does not align with every single NFL statistic site. Even people who don’t like me on this board, who I have had knock down drag outs with have said you are wrong. You will not find one person to back up your false notion that adding rating and dividing by games played is accurate.
August 28, 20223 yr 4 hours ago, downundermike said: I counted the 4 starts of Jalen Hurts equally and determined his QB rating is 78.9. You are not and saying it is 70.5. Why you doing Jalen dirty like that.
August 28, 20223 yr @Aerolithe_Lion @Next_Up @e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! @jsb235 warned me the last guy who challenged him like this quit the board. Whutcha think, should I quit yet ??
August 29, 20223 yr Author 1 hour ago, Aerolithe_Lion said: To the same regard, I’m not sure where the logic is in segmenting a player’s season as opposed to looking at it as a whole unit. Because if you want to compare how a player did over a certain number of games, counting those games equally is the best way to do it.
August 29, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, jsb235 said: Because if you want to compare how a player did over a certain number of games, counting those games equally is the best way to do it. You have yet to explain how to count them equally. You have also yet to explain how full season QB ratings don’t match your formula.
August 29, 20223 yr 3 minutes ago, downundermike said: You have yet to explain how to count them equally. You have also yet to explain how full season QB ratings don’t match your formula.
August 29, 20223 yr Author 1 minute ago, downundermike said: You have yet to explain how to count them equally. You have also yet to explain how full season QB ratings don’t match your formula. How did you miss these explanations?
August 29, 20223 yr 5 minutes ago, jsb235 said: How did you miss these explanations? You think you explained it, you didn’t. Even some of my mortal enemies on this board are wrecking you. This may be the worst self own in the history of the EMB. Not one person agrees with you.
August 29, 20223 yr 3 minutes ago, downundermike said: You think you explained it, you didn’t. Even some of my mortal enemies on this board are wrecking you. This may be the worst self own in the history of the EMB. Not one person agrees with you.
August 29, 20223 yr Author 3 minutes ago, downundermike said: You think you explained it, you didn’t. Even some of my mortal enemies on this board are wrecking you. This may be the worst self own in the history of the EMB. Not one person agrees with you. No worries. Just answer the question. Why should the two Giants games from last season be weighted differently in terms of qb rating?
August 29, 20223 yr Just now, jsb235 said: No worries. Just answer the question. Why should the two Giants games from last season be weighted differently in terms of qb rating?
August 29, 20223 yr 6 minutes ago, jsb235 said: No worries. Just answer the question. Why should the two Giants games from last season be weighted differently in terms of qb rating? They are both weighted by QB rating. Not sure why you think the are weighted differently. One game was horrendous, as proven by the QB rating.
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