Just now, toughfighter83 said:

problem is like it was with cliff lee, he starts playing like crap or suffers a serious injury, it's going to be another decade of misery because we cant make upgrades as a result of the contract you cant buy him out.

Yeah that’s a two way street though.  Wheeler’s best years, for example,  have been after he turned 30. 

2 minutes ago, Khani1 said:

I’m fine with this team sucking again in 5 years for a 5 year span if that means we are loaded the next 3-4 years and get one World Series. 

Not sure you get to 4 years. A lot of guys are heading to mid 30s and eventually gonna see west and tear drop offs. Have money to spend cause of middleton but eventually like you saw with 2007-2011 it eventually closes. They got 5 years total. So if you follow the same you already had the 2. Might only have 3 left before it begins to erode. Phillies have guys like schwarber, castellanos, nola, wheeler, harper, Turner and jt all in their 30s and some mid 30s. I think if you get 3 really good years at this point it’s about as much as you could ask. Would be 5 years which is a half decade. 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Not sure you get to 4 years. A lot of guys are heading to mid 30s and eventually gonna see west and tear drop offs. Have money to spend cause of middleton but eventually like you saw with 2007-2011 it eventually closes. They got 5 years total. So if you follow the same you already had the 2. Might only have 3 left before it begins to erode. Phillies have guys like schwarber, castellanos, nola, wheeler, harper, Turner and jt all in their 30s and some mid 30s. I think if you get 3 really good years at this point it’s about as much as you could ask. Would be 5 years which is a half decade. 

I dont mean specifically 3-4 years. Just load up right now try to win one before this core is on the wrong sides of their careers. Im willing to sacrifice sucking after that for a while. 

5 minutes ago, Khani1 said:

I dont mean specifically 3-4 years. Just load up right now try to win one before this core is on the wrong sides of their careers. Im willing to sacrifice sucking after that for a while. 

Sounds good in the moment but people said the same thing during the last Phillies run and it took a decade to get back. Frankly they need to start drafting developing at a level like the dodgers and Braves. If they do you can make it sustainable to have success for longer than short windows. Phillies have been better but no where near those types of levels of those two teams. 

 

 

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Sounds good in the moment but people said the same thing during the last Phillies run and it took a decade to get back. Frankly they need to start drafting developing at a level like the dodgers and Braves. If they do you can make it sustainable to have success for longer than short windows. Phillies have been better but no where near those types of levels of those two teams. 

All about the farm system. The issue after 2011 is that our farm system produced absolutely nothing. There were years where our best players were guys like mikael Franco and nick williams. You can stay somewhat competitive after a run like this if you draft and develop well enough.

1 hour ago, Khani1 said:

I would prefer they sign Yamamoto and for this upcoming year, have a ridiculous starting pitching group. Then see how Wheeler and the other main pitching prospects do this year, and play his contract by ear. 

Yep. This is a mistake unless they are looking for a guy who can't win big games in the WS or a game 6 at freaking home

43 minutes ago, BirdsFanBill said:

24.5 mil a year for a starting pitcher won’t be much 6 years from now. This is a team friendly deal for a guy who wanted to stay. Yeah he has had his ups and downs but dude was a beast last two postseasons, I respect it. 

Ahhhh he blew the WS, he blew the game in SD in the NLCS, and he blew game 6 at home this year. That guy is not a beast. He crumbles. 

10 minutes ago, BirdsFanBill said:

All about the farm system. The issue after 2011 is that our farm system produced absolutely nothing. There were years where our best players were guys like mikael Franco and nick williams. You can stay somewhat competitive after a run like this if you draft and develop well enough.

Phillies been better recently but it’s still nowhere where it needs to be. They currently have some nice prospects with painter (when healthy), Abel, Crawford, mcgary and Miller. And potentially Rojas if he becomes a better hitter like they were able to do with marsh. The issue is the dodgers and Braves consistently have a boatload of prospects that are mlb type guys and at least 2-3 that are big impact guys that they can either trade or let develop into their roles. Phillies need to get that level of consistency otherwise you’ll likely see a drop off like after 2011 into the dark years 

11 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

Ahhhh he blew the WS, he blew the game in SD in the NLCS, and he blew game 6 at home this year. That guy is not a beast. He crumbles. 

Not sure what to tell you. He’s had plenty of amazing postseason outings and clutch regular season outings. I’m not saying the guy is Zack wheeler and can go through an entire postseason of 7 starts without giving up a 4-5 run game. But he’s proven he can do it more often than not in the postseason. 
 

Even most teams aces have a down game or two in the playoffs. It’s crazy to just think and expect every year the guy is going to put up 0 runs and 7 innings every start in the playoffs. 
 

End of the day this guy is an amazing number 3/ decent enough number 2 to have in your rotation and is significantly better than any other pitcher we could possibly get at 24.5 per year

 

 

Although if they sign him, I doubt they extend Wheeler 

 

Full No Trade Clause? 

 

 

 

Want no part of Hader

1 hour ago, Diehardfan said:

Ahhhh he blew the WS, he blew the game in SD in the NLCS, and he blew game 6 at home this year. That guy is not a beast. He crumbles. 

that's the thing, that fans arent getting you overpaying a pitcher that gives up 4 runs a game and now they letted a player to replace those runs aka hoskins in fa and now they have to figure how to replace that production because if our hitters start regressing, it's going to hurt this team bad, i much rather had some cheap pitchers and go after few more batters. this is such a big mistake by the front office and again they dont learn anything from 2011, they are not going with the strength of the class.

1 hour ago, BirdsFanBill said:

Not sure what to tell you. He’s had plenty of amazing postseason outings and clutch regular season outings. I’m not saying the guy is Zack wheeler and can go through an entire postseason of 7 starts without giving up a 4-5 run game. But he’s proven he can do it more often than not in the postseason. 
 

Even most teams aces have a down game or two in the playoffs. It’s crazy to just think and expect every year the guy is going to put up 0 runs and 7 innings every start in the playoffs. 
 

End of the day this guy is an amazing number 3/ decent enough number 2 to have in your rotation and is significantly better than any other pitcher we could possibly get at 24.5 per year

I want no oart of a guy who folds mentally the way he does. Game 6 at home and he pitches like that? I hate they are bringing him back. This will go down as a horrible decision. 

The more I think about this, the money and length doesn't matter as much because the contract isn't backloaded.

Middleton has proven that he doesn't care about spending money if the team is winning. 

It's not like we're looking at a 35-40m salary in years 6 and 7. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Diehardfan said:

I want no oart of a guy who folds mentally the way he does. Game 6 at home and he pitches like that? I hate they are bringing him back. This will go down as a horrible decision. 

i mean you have a cheaper of version of nola which is walker that could save us so much money, like the fo and nola fans are freaking clueless.

5 hours ago, Khani1 said:

I’m fine with this team sucking again in 5 years for a 5 year span if that means we are loaded the next 3-4 years and get one World Series. 

Thats not going to happen unless they make changes to this team

3 hours ago, iladelphxx said:

The more I think about this, the money and length doesn't matter as much because the contract isn't backloaded.

Middleton has proven that he doesn't care about spending money if the team is winning. 

It's not like we're looking at a 35-40m salary in years 6 and 7. 

$24.5m in 3-4 years will be the money 3rd and 4th starters are earning in FA.

6 hours ago, iladelphxx said:

Full No Trade Clause? 

 

 

 

Yeah no brainer if other teams offered more money.  Hometown discount = mandatory no trade clause (in almost every case) 

3 hours ago, Blazehound said:

$24.5m in 3-4 years will be the money 3rd and 4th starters are earning in FA.

That might be true. However, we don’t know what Aaron Nola’s gonna look like at 36, 37 and 38; the last three years of that contract. He’s already pitched a ton of innings. There’s a chance that when you get to that part of the contract he might just be done and i don’t see him retiring or giving up $75 mil.

I get he’s not a power pitcher, but but I tend to think with the amount of innings he has already thrown that when he declines he has issues staying healthy and it’s a steep decline to the point you might be paying $24.5 mil  over the course of two or three years when he shouldn’t even be in the rotation anymore. The reason why I said he might start having more injuries then is because I think the innings eventually are going to catch up to him.  You don’t pitch in the major leagues for over a decade and not eventually have some sort of major injury hit. It’s really rare that it never happens or later in your career start breaking down more due to the high volume of innings. And usually guys who have a crap load of innings pitch towards the end suffer a major injury or begin breaking down more frequently even if they stayed relatively healthy. 

i said earlier in the offseason actually rather have just giving him a higher AAV then gone the extra 2 years. If you have $25 mil locked up into nola and he can’t pitch anymore that’s 25 mil you don’t have and hitting your luxury tax.

All I know is he better look closer to what he did in the postseason than what he did the majority of the year next year. Because if he looks like he did for the majority of the year this year in 2024 it is terrifying to know we have 6 years left on that contract and 2 left on walker’s

16 hours ago, Diehardfan said:

I want no oart of a guy who folds mentally the way he does. Game 6 at home and he pitches like that? I hate they are bringing him back. This will go down as a horrible decision. 

I guess I see it differently. Nola has his struggles for sure and isn't an ace. I've been railing him all year because people say he's an ace and he just isn't. But that doesn't mean he doesn't have value.

However nlcs game 6 he comes out and gets hit around, then buckles down after 3 runs in the 2nd inning to really keep us in the game. To me that's not folding mentally. Watching the game I thought he redeemed himself and held them down after a few early mistakes. We scored 1 run and lost 5-1, not exactly a clunker, we had a chance to win that game.