2-5

14 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Feels like this is going to be a long night 

It was.

13 hours ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

Harper is not even close to a good at 1st

He's actually been very good, especially given his complete lack of playing there basically before the age of 30.  Last night was really bad though.  Then again, the rest of the team joined in.  The need to get their heads out of their collective backside.

11 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Phillies have struggled as much as they have over the last month due to RISP & BP. Since Tigers series, the Phillies are hitting .222 (44-198) with RISP. In July they are hitting .240 (31-129). Take the dodgers series out of the July numbers it’s .214 (22-103). since the dodgers series .230 (15-65) and 4 hitless games (10 total games) with RISP

also realmuto hit .205 with RISP in 2023. He’s been worse this year as he’s hitting .170. Yet batting in the 5 hole. 

Seems like it started with the London series.   I hated that on the schedule as soon as I saw it.   Just far far too distruptive to creatures of habit like baseball players.  Not an excuse, but that major hiccup seemed to change something.  They need to get their heads right.   Most of their issues right now appear to be mental.

Could "Someone" change the title of this thread?  That's what f'ing caused this slide!

Wow it fell apart quick for this team.  Always next year!

3 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Seems like it started with the London series.   I hated that on the schedule as soon as I saw it.   Just far far too distruptive to creatures of habit like baseball players.  Not an excuse, but that major hiccup seemed to change something.  They need to get their heads right.   Most of their issues right now appear to be mental.

Yup. They are 20-20 since going to London. I’d add i think some of this started when they went to Colorado. They didn’t look the same on that road trip and really haven’t played consistent since then. They are 27-25 since the Rockies series started. That’s 52 games which is just 2 games short of a 1/3 of the season. At some point it is less of just a slump and more this is who you are for a large stretch. Not that they can’t turn it around and play much better but 1/3 of a season playing at this pace is a bigger concern than people want to admit. Some of it was injuries to guys but everyone is back now and they actually have played worse. 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Yup. They are 20-20 since going to London. I’d add i think some do this started when they went to Colorado. They didn’t look the same on that road trip and really haven’t played consistent since then. They are 27-25 since the Rockies series started. L That’s 52 games which is just 2 games short of a 1/3 of the season. At some point it is less of just a slump and more this is who you are for a large stretch. Not that they can’t turn it around and play much better but 1/3 of a season playing at this pace is a bigger concern than people want to admit. Some of it was injuries to guys but everyone is back know and they actually have played worse. 

No different than last year.  Very streaky and inconsistent.  I don’t expect anything different come the postseason.  If they aren’t hot, then forget it.  Because this version of the Phillies is beatable by just about any team in baseball.

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Yup. They are 20-20 since going to London. I’d add i think some do this started when they went to Colorado. They didn’t look the same on that road trip and really haven’t played consistent since then. They are 27-25 since the Rockies series started. L That’s 52 games which is just 2 games short of a 1/3 of the season. At some point it is less of just a slump and more this is who you are for a large stretch. Not that they can’t turn it around and play much better but 1/3 of a season playing at this pace is a bigger concern than people want to admit. Some of it was injuries to guys but everyone is back know and they actually have played worse. 

For some reason this seems to happen at times.   Players go down, others step up in their absence because they have to... and then when the injured players return, everyone breathes out a sigh of relief and takes their foot off the pedal.  

Realmuto should likely not be in the 5 hole immediately returning from his injury.  He should probably be in the 7 hole.  But that puts Castellanos back in the 5... or Marsh against righties.  Hays is a guy that I think could take on that role facing lefties though.  But, with his pop against lefty pitching do you want him in the 4 hole closer to Harper and Schwarber, whom you know will draw every lefty the opposition has available?   But, with them only needing to face 3 batters and then come out... it really is all about Turner being able to crush the lefties that come in to deal with Schwarber and Harper more than it would be the guy to follow them.  Though... he might be better than Bohm, Castellanos or Realmuto in that spot.    Of course, that leaves the question about the line up when Marsh plays against righties.  

 

This is where adding a big bat into the order would really help everything... and there's one out there, to play CF, who is very young and wouldn't be 'mortgaging the future' to land, but it would mean a big price tag.   But, I don't think there's anyway this team makes the move.  Cost prohibitive.

1 minute ago, GoEagles5921 said:

No different than last year.  Very streaky and inconsistent.  I don’t expect anything different come the postseason.  If they aren’t hot, then forget it.  Because this version of the Phillies is beatable by just about any team in baseball.

Said since last year they never actually replaced Rhys hoskins. He got hurt and their deadline solution was rudolfo Castro. People might not have loved Rhys but he gave you 3 things they miss: 1) RH power and someone to hit in the 5 hole. They are using Jt who’s hit .205 and .167 the last two years with RISP. He shouldn’t be. Stott isn’t a 5. Castellanos is too hot or cold. And marsh frankly is vastly overrated by this franchise. 2) grinds at bats. He’ll see a ton of pitches and make pitchers work. Might get a mistake or the next guy will. They miss that. 3) in 2022 he hit .292 with RISP. You don’t just lose that and not expect a drop off. They have yet to replace it as Dombrowski had deadline last year, offseason and now another deadline.

i said before the year i thought doing nothing but adding Merrifield to the roster while other teams in the NL made moves would catch up to them. Ultimately leading to a disappointing out in the NLDS. As i watch this team they have similar issues to last year; 2-3 RP you trust and a lineup that is feast or famine with RISP (playoffs they hit a bunch of homers so it got overlooked til the end but they hit .218, .219 and .230 in the 3 series with RISP. That .230 is worse when you consider games 1 and 3-7 they hit .159)

9 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

For some reason this seems to happen at times.   Players go down, others step up in their absence because they have to... and then when the injured players return, everyone breathes out a sigh of relief and takes their foot off the pedal.  

Realmuto should likely not be in the 5 hole immediately returning from his injury.  He should probably be in the 7 hole.  But that puts Castellanos back in the 5... or Marsh against righties.  Hays is a guy that I think could take on that role facing lefties though.  But, with his pop against lefty pitching do you want him in the 4 hole closer to Harper and Schwarber, whom you know will draw every lefty the opposition has available?   But, with them only needing to face 3 batters and then come out... it really is all about Turner being able to crush the lefties that come in to deal with Schwarber and Harper more than it would be the guy to follow them.  Though... he might be better than Bohm, Castellanos or Realmuto in that spot.    Of course, that leaves the question about the line up when Marsh plays against righties.  

 

This is where adding a big bat into the order would really help everything... and there's one out there, to play CF, who is very young and wouldn't be 'mortgaging the future' to land, but it would mean a big price tag.   But, I don't think there's anyway this team makes the move.  Cost prohibitive.

I mentioned this last year, realmuto shouldn’t be a 5 hole hitter anymore. He was .205 with RISP in 2023. This year he’s .167 with RISP. When he doesn’t have guys in scoring position or on base he hits .311. Last year he was hitting .267. The issue is the Phillies don’t have someone that can be consistent enough for the 5 hole. Like i mentioned in the post above they miss Rhys. In 2022 he hit .292 with risp. He also gives you power from the RH side. Plus grinds through at bats. While he can be super cold at times he almost always grinds in bats. They never actually replaced what they lost when he got hurt in ST in 2023.

I don’t think they make that move either. Frankly Robert has issues staying healthy but also while great RH power he kind of has the same problem Castellanos does at times where he has a really bad chase rate which causes him to go really cold. Tbh the time to upgrade what they needed was in the offseason. With the extra WC team and Phillies/dbacks doing what they did the last two years it’s keeping more teams in the race and less guys available and higher price tag. It’s why i think making upgrades in the offseason that only cost you money makes more sense in today’s era of baseball and making trades on the peripheral at the deadline.

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Said since last year they never actually replaced Rhys hoskins. He got hurt and their deadline solution was rudolfo Castro. People might not have loved Rhys but he gave you 3 things they miss: 1) RH power and someone to hit in the 5 hole. They are using Jt who’s hit .205 and .167 the last two years with RISP. He shouldn’t be. Stott isn’t a 5. Castellanos is too hot or cold. And marsh frankly is vastly overrated by this franchise. 2) grinds at bats. He’ll see a ton of pitches and make pitchers work. Might get a mistake or the next guy will. They miss that. 3) in 2022 he hit .292 with RISP. You don’t just lose that and not expect a drop off. They have yet to replace it as Dombrowski had deadline last year, offseason and now another deadline.

i said before the year i thought doing nothing but adding Merrifield to the roster while other teams in the NL made moves would catch up to them. Ultimately leading to a disappointing out in the NLDS. As i watch this team they have similar issues to last year; 2-3 RP you trust and a lineup that is feast or famine with RISP (playoffs they hit a bunch of homers so it got overlooked til the end but they hit .218, .219 and .230 in the 3 series with RISP. That .230 is worse when you consider games 1 and 3-7 they hit .159)

No doubt.  Hoskins was a defensively liability... but an offensive asset.  I thought the best move was to move Harper back to the outfield (LF where he wouldn't have had to do as much) and resign Rhys. 

There's no one that can say that this team's lineup isn't markedly better with this lineup:
1 - Schwarber DH
2 - Turner SS
3 - Harper LF
4 - Hoskins 1B
5 - Bohm 3B
6 - Stott 2B
7 - Castellanos RF
8 - Marsh CF
9 - Realmuto C  

 

That's a weaker defense, but a dramatically stronger offense.

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

No doubt.  Hoskins was a defensively liability... but an offensive asset.  I thought the best move was to move Harper back to the outfield (LF where he wouldn't have had to do as much) and resign Rhys. 

There's no one that can say that this team's lineup isn't markedly better with this lineup:
1 - Schwarber DH
2 - Turner SS
3 - Harper LF
4 - Hoskins 1B
5 - Bohm 3B
6 - Stott 2B
7 - Castellanos RF
8 - Marsh CF
9 - Realmuto C  

 

That's a weaker defense, but a dramatically stronger offense.

Preaching to the choir here. All offseason i said just move Harper back to LF for a year and let hoskins be here for one year. The 1 year of Harper in the OF wasn’t going to destroy him or his future. It gave you the best chance to win a WS. As badly as he was at 1b defensively he is a series changing type of bat. What he did in 2022 nlds vs. atlanta. Frankly that dbacks series might have gone much differently in game 3 or 4 if they had Rhys. 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Preaching to the choir here. All offseason i said just move Harper back to LF for a year and let hoskins be here for one year. The 1 year of Harper in the OF wasn’t going to destroy him or his future. It gave you the best chance to win a WS. As badly as he was at 1b defensively he is a series changing type of bat. What he did in 2022 nlds vs. atlanta. Frankly that dbacks series might have gone much differently in game 3 or 4 if they had Rhys. 

Rhys also offers the option to hit #2... and when Turner went cold and the DBacks decided they were just going to pitch around Schwarber and Harper and force the other guys to beat them... Rhys in between those lefties is a rough spot for a pitcher, because of the things you pointed out.  He's a battler, and while you might get him out, you are going to get used up in that at bat.   Sadly Stott USED to be a lot like that, but for some reason he's not grinding his at-bats the same way as last year.  He needs to get back to that and stop trying to hit 20 HRs.  They will come naturally but he needs to be that battler, especially with 2 strikes that shortened his swing and went the opposite way far more.  

 

18 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Rhys also offers the option to hit #2... and when Turner went cold and the DBacks decided they were just going to pitch around Schwarber and Harper and force the other guys to beat them... Rhys in between those lefties is a rough spot for a pitcher, because of the things you pointed out.  He's a battler, and while you might get him out, you are going to get used up in that at bat.   Sadly Stott USED to be a lot like that, but for some reason he's not grinding his at-bats the same way as last year.  He needs to get back to that and stop trying to hit 20 HRs.  They will come naturally but he needs to be that battler, especially with 2 strikes that shortened his swing and went the opposite way far more.  

 

Hasn’t really been brought up much, but I start to ask what’s Kevin long doing to help the young kids or they aren’t really listening to his advice. Guys like Kyle Schwarber, Harper, Turner, realmuto, and Castellanos are established veterans that been here for a long time or in the major leagues for a long time so essentially they are what they are. There’s only a couple things that maybe he can see and help him work out of a slump.

But the guys he’s really working to improve are the young kids. Stott has regressed this year. marsh is largely same type of player we received from the angels. In 2022 he hit .262 vs. RHP and .188 vs. lhp. In 2023 .292 vs. RHP and .229 vs. LHP. This year, .274 vs. RHP and .140 vs. lhp. His best season against LHP was his rookie year where he hit .260. But really it has been this the last 3 years. Johan Rojas’ bat hasn’t gotten better as the course of the season has gone on. And he has elongated swing, which is a problem because he’s not a power hitter. The one guy who’s been better this year has been Bohm. It’s a problem cause i don’t think the Phillies believed Stott, marsh and Rojas would’ve taken the steps back or not improved at all over the course of the year. Let’s remember when the Phillies made that trade for Marsh (was really struggling with the angels) it wasn’t a trade that they thought he’d just be a platoon player. They gave up a highly coveted catching prospect cause they believed he could be an everyday CF. 2 years into it he has the same issues. 

 

I keep seeing people say don;t worry it is just a lull, well 1/3 of the season is not a lull. And i think we tend to overrate some guys on this team

20 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

I keep seeing people say don;t worry it is just a lull, well 1/3 of the season is not a lull. And i think we tend to overrate some guys on this team

If you would have told me before the season that that Turner, Realmuto, Schwarber and Harper would miss a combined 88 games between May 3rd and July 20th, I would assume we'd be barely alive in the Wild Card race. 

The Phillies went 41-25 in those game and still have the best record in baseball.. 

They're the best team in baseball. They will make moves to get even better. 

I'm not worried, at all. 

 

37 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

I keep seeing people say don;t worry it is just a lull, well 1/3 of the season is not a lull. And i think we tend to overrate some guys on this team

Not me. I’ll say it. Marsh is vastly overrated by the fan base and the organization. The stats have shown he basically has the same issues after 2 years of working with long/phillies that he had with the angels where he can’t hit LHP and is a platoon player. 

Big loss for the Mets when he finally got back and could’ve helped them down the stretch  

 

And there it is. Again should’ve skipped his start vs  A’s and given him 15 days off between starts. So earliest he’ll be back is August 8 at Arizona 

 

56 minutes ago, iladelphxx said:

If you would have told me before the season that that Turner, Realmuto, Schwarber and Harper would miss a combined 88 games between May 3rd and July 20th, I would assume we'd be barely alive in the Wild Card race. 

The Phillies went 41-25 in those game and still have the best record in baseball.. 

They're the best team in baseball. They will make moves to get even better. 

I'm not worried, at all. 

 

Every team misses key players throughout the year

10 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

Every team misses key players throughout the year

My bigger argument is what classifies as the best team in baseball? Are we talking about the roster being the best in baseball? Are we talking about how they are playing currently being the best team in baseball? Are we talking about the best record? I can make the argument the Phillies have the best record and even roster in mlb. But when you play the most recent 1/3 of a season and go 27-25 and 20-20 in the last quarter of the season i have a hard time saying you are the best team in baseball.

Injuries did not help them over this stretch. Credit they didn’t fall apart. but frankly they got more guys back, healthy and began playing worse. This feels far more like a consistency issue which they had last year and in 2022. 

So he must close to coming back. Cause his normal starts are usually like Bp