You will now address him as All-Pro MVP Finalist Offense Player of the Year Finalist and NFC Championship Bound Jalen Hurts

 

 

54 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Nobody wants him to be a pure pocket passer. But running the ball 17, 18 times a game in multiple games is not sustainable. He’s already missed games in his first two years as a full starter. 
 

I posted a while back a number of QBs "hit rates”….Hurts was around 33%; that is 1 in 3 plays ended with him having the ball in his hand or taking a hit on a pass.

Lamar was in the high 30s, Fields a ridiculous 50%. Allen was around 27, and then most of the pack (Burrow, Mahomes, Herbert, etc) were around 20-25%. Brady was an absurd 12%.

So personally, I’d like to see Hurts lower that percentage to around 25. Hopefully his passing improves even more so he doesn’t need to take as many hits, inside or outside the pocket

His mobility is the key to his game, though. In order for defenses to bite, they have to look for him to run, which they won't do if he morphs into primarily a drop back passer.  Mobile quarterbacks are the direction the league is going - not the old "running quarterback" stereo type but guys who play the position while in motion.  Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Murray, Watson, Jackson are elite because they play on the move. 

8 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

His mobility is the key to his game, though. In order for defenses to bite, they have to look for him to run, which they won't do if he morphs into primarily a drop back passer.  Mobile quarterbacks are the direction the league is going - not the old "running quarterback" stereo type but guys who play the position while in motion.  Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Murray, Watson, Jackson are elite because they play on the move. 

You’ve completely missed the point

2 hours ago, KINGnabb said:

 

Due to Jalen and the Eagles amazing Success this year.   Both of his former Colleges fans are arguing about who gets to "Claim" him.  LOL.   What I find funny is during the season on Sunday Night Football and Monday Night Football when they showed the Offense introduction, Jalen would say, "Channelview High School" instead of either College,  Jalen has played in so many huge games in College.   Anyways, Today is Jalen's First  NFC Championship Press Conference.   Hopefully this is the first of many more to come.   

I think it’s about even. He was already a big prospect when playing for Alabama, but with Lincoln Riley he elevated to the Heisman radar in Oklahoma. 

It’s a bit similar to Peyton. He played longer and won way more games in Indy, but he used what he learned in Indy to have his best year in Denver, his best 3-year stretch in Denver, get to as many SBs in Denver, win as many rings in Denver. Is it fair to just say he’s a Colt? He’s gotta be both.

38 minutes ago, KINGnabb said:

You will now address him as All-Pro MVP Finalist Offense Player of the Year Finalist and NFC Championship Bound Jalen Hurts

 

 

I think Mahomes getting first team All-Pro seals MVP, and OPoY I had defaulted to Jefferson, but…

Man 13 rushing TDs is a lot. Jefferson had a monster yardage year, but do 8 receiving TDs translate into best offensive player of the league? This will be an interesting one as all 4 could get first place votes

 

2 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

I think Mahomes getting first team All-Pro seals MVP, and OPoY I had defaulted to Jefferson, but…

Man 13 rushing TDs is a lot. Jefferson had a monster yardage year, but do 8 receiving TDs translate into best offensive player of the league? This will be an interesting one as all 4 could get first place votes

 

I think because Patrick and Jalen were neck and neck for MVP all season they might split the MVP and OPOY awards between the two.  But yes because of the All Pro votes it definitely helps Patrick a lot.   

Mahomes is the clear MVP and it won’t be close. He had an insane year after losing Tyreek Hill (who I believe is an OPOY finalist). 
 

Mahomes and Hurts were close at the start of December, but it’s no contest now. 
 

As for OPOY, I think they like to give it to non QBs, so JJ is a near lock for it

35 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

You’ve completely missed the point

Happens all the time.  Enlighten me. 

6 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

Happens all the time.  Enlighten me. 

I’ve never indicated he should be a pure pocket passer. All those QBs listed in your post, only Lamar takes hits more frequently than Hurts. I’d like to see Hurts lower his number to around the Mahomes level; still enough runs to keep defenses honest, but much less wear and tear. 

15 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Please name some names. Who are these run heavy QBs that had short careers because of their running? Tebow didn't exit the NFL because of injuries, it was because he never progressed as a passer at this level. In other words, it was because of talent, not durability. Cam Newton isn't out of the NFL because of durability, but because he wasn't getting the job done. You have no way of knowing how durable a player is until his career is over. 

I can't wait to see the names that contributed to your "statistical fact." In the modern NFL, there really haven't been very many "run heavy" QBs. So there really isn't any data except for the continuing careers of L. Jackson, Josh Allen, Jalen Hurts and possibly Justin Fields. Elway  McNabb, Vick, S. Young, and Cunningham all had lengthy careers. Kordell Stewart even had 11 seasons as an NFL QB and he wasn't really all that good. 11 seasons is more than twice the average QB career length. Show me your data, please. 

Cam wasn't the same after his shoulder injury. He's taken way too many hits and lost it as a starter in the league

15 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Cam wasn't the same after his shoulder injury. He's taken way too many hits and lost it as a starter in the league

I'm realizing there's no explaining it to this guy. He loves his QB to be a battering ram. 

1 minute ago, Shalodeep said:

I'm realizing there's no explaining it to this guy. He loves his QB to be a battering ram. 

BuT qBs GeT hUrT iN tHe PoCkEtZzzzzz

4 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

BuT qBs GeT hUrT iN tHe PoCkEtZzzzzz

Yup ignoring that pocket QBs have far more complete seasons than any running QB. We just make it up 

39 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I’ve never indicated he should be a pure pocket passer. All those QBs listed in your post, only Lamar takes hits more frequently than Hurts. I’d like to see Hurts lower his number to around the Mahomes level; still enough runs to keep defenses honest, but much less wear and tear. 

Turns out I didn't miss the point. And I don't totally disagree.  But there's a sentiment around here that as long as running is a significant part of his game, he's somehow not really "a quarterback" and nothing could be farther from the truth.  

38 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Cam wasn't the same after his shoulder injury. He's taken way too many hits and lost it as a starter in the league

Cam was 6'5, 250.  His whole ground game was dropping his shoulder and initiating contact.  Jalen's game is entirely different. 

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

Turns out I didn't miss the point. And I don't totally disagree.  But there's a sentiment around here that as long as running is a significant part of his game, he's somehow not really "a quarterback" and nothing could be farther from the truth.  

Nobody is saying that at all? What the hell are you talking about?

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

Cam was 6'5, 250.  His whole ground game was dropping his shoulder and initiating contact.  Jalen's game is entirely different. 

Guess I should have added a disclaimer. I was merely saying that Cam isn't a starter because of the injury that he never got over. Cam couldn't throw well after it

That wasn't a jab or whatever towards Jalen. Although I do wish he'd run less because I want him to be injured less and there's a lot of weapons on offense that he needs to throw the ball to

30 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

Turns out I didn't miss the point. And I don't totally disagree.  But there's a sentiment around here that as long as running is a significant part of his game, he's somehow not really "a quarterback" and nothing could be farther from the truth.  

Who has said that since the season started all the way back in September?? Guys really stuck in the past on here when almost everyone has said the kid has the stuff to be a long time starting QB. 

14 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Who has said that since the season started all the way back in September?? Guys really stuck in the past on here when almost everyone has said the kid has the stuff to be a long time starting QB. 

The only thing that can prevent that is staying on the Newton / Lamar path.

15 minutes ago, downundermike said:

The only thing that can prevent that is staying on the Newton / Lamar path.

And that's been my argument. I was a huge cam Newton fan coming out. He was actually built different and it wasn't just a line to hide behind. He came out throwing the ball and regressed horribly. I don't want that for Hurts. This guy seems to be just fine running him into the arms of the defenders as long as it's entertaining and gets a win, completely ignoring the writing on the wall.

You can name all the pocket QBs that get hurt but look up how many games they play in a row between injuries. Running QBs rarely make it through a season where pocket QBs go years at a time between missing games. 

Someone ping me when this circular argument turns into a circular firing squad, and we can have a reasonable conversation! Such entrenched positions! This isn't a conpetition, it's a message board...

For what it is worth, in my view Jalen's style of play means he can do everything. This makes him very dangerous. It comes with perhaps a higher likelihood of injury as he has to deal with more contact than some other QBs, but without that added dynamic he wouldn't be in the running for MVP - he'd merely be a top ten passer. That reward comes with risk, and it appears to be a risk that Jalen, and the Eagles in general, are willing to accept. It's got him and the team this far, so perhaps they are right to do so. Time will tell.

Maybe he has a shorter career as a result, maybe he doesn't. Players get injured, QBs get injured. It's a physical and dangerous sport. I love that he puts his body on the line for his team. Players in every other position do, after all.

Can't we just enjoy what he brings to the team? I can't remember a season where the Eagles felt like the complete package to this extent. I thought we would make the playoffs, and win the East. But Hurts' performance, and that of the whole team, has been incredible. The Birds were 25-1 or so for the title at the start of the season, and i thought they were good value. But this is beyond belief, and we should enjoy it while we can. This feels special. Make the most of it! Or, to put it another way - enjoy yourself, it's later than you think.

 

4 hours ago, brkmsn said:

We needed him to do what he did to win that game vs the bears. Everybody is making a huge deal about a shoulder strain that was between grade 1 and 2 (out of 6). The injury gave Hurts some pain which he played through in the Bears game. The Eagle almost lost the #1 seed because they thought they could start resting Hurts early and still win. 

 

I don't understand why it's so important to people that we make Hurts into something he is not (one dimensional). 

I don't understand why you assume he can't pass well enough to be more of a pocket passer and doesn't need to run and get hurt. That said of course there are times when he needs to run it just doesn't need to be a big part of the offense. The guy can throw and throws very well. 

2 hours ago, TorontoEagle said:

I’ve never indicated he should be a pure pocket passer. All those QBs listed in your post, only Lamar takes hits more frequently than Hurts. I’d like to see Hurts lower his number to around the Mahomes level; still enough runs to keep defenses honest, but much less wear and tear. 

Run if you have to and get the heck down and not take hits. 

12 minutes ago, greend said:

I don't understand why you assume he can't pass well enough to be more of a pocket passer and doesn't need to run and get hurt. That said of course there are times when he needs to run it just doesn't need to be a big part of the offense. The guy can throw and throws very well. 

He could just as well get hurt in the pocket. Mahomes wasn't running when he got hurt this past weekend.