While I recognize the hard work that teachers do, and how much more they do than what people think they do, as Vikas said no one lied to them about what they could expect.

When you work for the government, you trade compensation for job security. I have no problem producing results, so I am in the private sector. Others not so much. 

2 minutes ago, Talkingbirds said:

Education system is broke, healthcare, immigration,Gun laws, voting rights is anything working in US ?

We're pretty hard on ourselves, things are in general much better than they seem. 24 hour news networks and social media have a way of emphasizing the bad.

Despite all the b|tching and moaning from the left, race relations in this country are in a MUCH better place in 2021 than they were in previous generations. Critical Race Theory needs to be washed out, it has no actual scientific backing (unless the opinions of "civil rights scholars" somehow counts as "scientific"). The 1619 project has been shredded by historians for historical inaccuracies. But on balance, there is no better time in history for a minority to be living in a Western nation. Is there progress that has to be made? Absolutely. But the biggest lie the left tells itself is that things are getting worse.

Violent crime is way down from a generation or two ago. Our standard of living is much better as we benefit from the technological advances our "evil" capitalist society regularly delivers. Yes, if I'm really a leftist I could focus on work-life balance vs. European countries, but whether you like it or not ours is a culture where hard working and career-minded individuals are held in high regard. If you want to change this, change the culture first and the policies will follow. But most Americans like our system that rewards hard-working, talented people in a way that appears outsized when comparing to other countries.

That's not to deny there are problems.

Wealth inequality is dismissed by the haves, but they are an early warning for social unrest. Our society is not going to long-tolerate a system where wealth continuously finds its way into fewer hands.

Education is very uneven in the US. This isn't surprising given our population distribution and cultural differences, so we should always look at these things in that context. But there's much to improve on there.

Immigration, frankly I don't see the big problem here. People want to come here for a better life. That's a good thing. We cannot just let anybody in, and we need some reform there, but a bunch of people showing up at the border because your nation is a desirable place to be is not something I consider a "problem" in the grand scheme of things. It's merely the cost that a great nation has to bear. A true first-world problem. 

Voting rights are still pretty good broadly in the US, but it's very disconcerting to see Republicans reject all pretense and just straight up pass legislation designed to stop people from voting. 

8 minutes ago, Bill said:

While I recognize the hard work that teachers do, and how much more they do than what people think they do, as Vikas said no one lied to them about what they could expect.

When you work for the government, you trade compensation for job security. I have no problem producing results, so I am in the private sector. Others not so much. 

I'm less advocating for more pay (though I do think teachers in many districts DO deserve more pay, but it's very district-by-district) than I am rejecting this idea that teachers are overpaid or lazy. 

19 minutes ago, paco said:

Then again, if they were capable of working smart, they wouldn't be teachers.  

That's just not true for most teachers. Most teach not because "they can't", but because they want to teach. And they're willing to work for the wages available to them. 

I will admit my bias is probably towards elementary teachers, as those are the ones I've dealt with most. And likely the ones that work the hardest. Though I envy no teacher that has to work with middle school kids - 13-15 year old kids are quite literally the worst. 

But every teacher my kids' have had clearly loved teaching. They were all intelligent and motivated, many have master's (the one I referenced earlier is going for her PhD). 

I do live in a great district. But I can only speak to my experiences. 

The flip side is the retired teacher who's still on my facebook feed. That dude went full MAGA insane after retiring. Really a sight to see. 

4 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

That's just not true for most teachers. Most teach not because "they can't", but because they want to teach. And they're willing to work for the wages available to them. 

I will admit my bias is probably towards elementary teachers, as those are the ones I've dealt with most. And likely the ones that work the hardest. Though I envy no teacher that has to work with middle school kids - 13-15 year old kids are quite literally the worst. 

But every teacher my kids' have had clearly loved teaching. They were all intelligent and motivated, many have master's (the one I referenced earlier is going for her PhD). 

I do live in a great district. But I can only speak to my experiences. 

The flip side is the retired teacher who's still on my facebook feed. That dude went full MAGA insane after retiring. Really a sight to see. 

Last year I had one teacher in our feed say "Teachers are the unsung heroes of COVID" because they had to adjust to off site teaching with no notice. 

 

They can't, thus they teach.

Happy tax season 

11 hours ago, paco said:

so they make 2k less than people walking out of college who are going to go off and actually do something AND receive a hefty pension when they retire?

 

Yeah, teachers are way WAY overpaid

I’m not qualified or familiar enough to comment on what teachers should make. I graduated with a 4 year engineer degree and started out making $50k a year. At the time I was on the slightly low end compared to a lot of my other friends and classmates also graduating with engineering degrees. But myself, and them, all had 10 vacation days of our choosing, 5 sick days, and what typically came out to about 8 holidays (New Years Day, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving+Black Friday, Christmas Eve+Christmas Day, New Year’s Eve). I don’t know if NYE was always a day or not (it is where I’ve worked the last 5 years). 
 

Teachers get all those same days off, plus random days like MLK, Presidents’ Day, columbus day, Veterans Day, Good Friday.... a week of spring break, now what seems like a full week in February for "winter break” (something I never had k-12), a few weeks at Christmas, and where I lived, from about June 20th until the Wednesday after Labor Day... so something like 11-12 weeks for summer. 
 

so I was making similar money but working 15 more weeks a year? Hell, I would forfeit $10k a year in my salary today for get 3 additional months off. And while teachers shouldn’t feel obligated to work during the summer, anything they choose to do for those 2.5-3 months adds on top of that $51k or whatever that starting average value was 

11 minutes ago, Agent23 said:

I’m not qualified or familiar enough to comment on what teachers should make. I graduated with a 4 year engineer degree and started out making $50k a year. At the time I was on the slightly low end compared to a lot of my other friends and classmates also graduating with engineering degrees. But myself, and them, all had 10 vacation days of our choosing, 5 sick days, and what typically came out to about 8 holidays (New Years Day, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving+Black Friday, Christmas Eve+Christmas Day, New Year’s Eve). I don’t know if NYE was always a day or not (it is where I’ve worked the last 5 years). 
 

Teachers get all those same days off, plus random days like MLK, Presidents’ Day, columbus day, Veterans Day, Good Friday.... a week of spring break, now what seems like a full week in February for "winter break” (something I never had k-12), a few weeks at Christmas, and where I lived, from about June 20th until the Wednesday after Labor Day... so something like 11-12 weeks for summer. 
 

so I was making similar money but working 15 more weeks a year? Hell, I would forfeit $10k a year in my salary today for get 3 additional months off. And while teachers shouldn’t feel obligated to work during the summer, anything they choose to do for those 2.5-3 months adds on top of that $51k or whatever that starting average value was 

My wife is a teacher and made like $150k last year.  I can also tell you that she works 70-80 hours a week all year round.

9 hours ago, Agent23 said:

I’m not qualified or familiar enough to comment on what teachers should make. I graduated with a 4 year engineer degree and started out making $50k a year. At the time I was on the slightly low end compared to a lot of my other friends and classmates also graduating with engineering degrees. But myself, and them, all had 10 vacation days of our choosing, 5 sick days, and what typically came out to about 8 holidays (New Years Day, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving+Black Friday, Christmas Eve+Christmas Day, New Year’s Eve). I don’t know if NYE was always a day or not (it is where I’ve worked the last 5 years). 
 

Teachers get all those same days off, plus random days like MLK, Presidents’ Day, columbus day, Veterans Day, Good Friday.... a week of spring break, now what seems like a full week in February for "winter break” (something I never had k-12), a few weeks at Christmas, and where I lived, from about June 20th until the Wednesday after Labor Day... so something like 11-12 weeks for summer. 
 

so I was making similar money but working 15 more weeks a year? Hell, I would forfeit $10k a year in my salary today for get 3 additional months off. And while teachers shouldn’t feel obligated to work during the summer, anything they choose to do for those 2.5-3 months adds on top of that $51k or whatever that starting average value was 

most teachers do not start out making $50k/year. they start closer to $35-40k, though it depends heavily on where they land a job. (that's probably true for most professsions)

their salaries are adjusted accordingly. they're paid for the time they work. they don't have "3 months off". they're paid for the 9-10 mos of the year they work. 

and many of those days off you mention during the school year are days off for students, not teachers. many are in-service days. 

weird how it matters now. 

not so much when we were running up deficits so we could cut taxes. 

6 minutes ago, NVeagle said:

The right can't meme.

Also, what's the deal with Republicans obsession with ripped-up dudes?  It's super ghey.