41 minutes ago, Bill said:

The wait time for a passport is like over a year. 
 

Also for some people, yeah, it is actually hard to get to a DMV. My grandfather was confined to a wheelchair and couldn’t drive. I had to take him to the DMV so he could get his ID. If he didn’t have me then what could he have done? Also you have some lower south states closing DMVs in areas with a black demographic. 
 

I get that leftists tend to go overboard, but sometimes you gotta zoom out. 

The wait time is -4 months. 
 

and he did have you. But do we really want the geriatrics deciding elections? Thats part of our current problem

Everybody has the right to vote. Choosing policies that make it harder for a voting bloc whose politics you disagree with is antidemocratic by its very nature. 

2 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

Bonkers. They want to implement 90% taxes on any income above €400k.

Yeah that is going to end well and really incentivise working hard, innovating and risk taking in their economy....

Uh. They’re French. Their nationality disincentivizes hard work. Incentivizes surrendering to Germans though. 

1 hour ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Where are you getting a passport that takes over a year? I'm not arguing you overall point, I've just never seen a passport take over a year. Even in 2021 I only waited 2 months.

 

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

We just renewed ours and applied for ones for the kids. Took 3 weeks for mine and the kids, 4 weeks for my wife's.

Ah, glad it’s gotten better.
 

In ‘22 the wait time was around 18 months. I had to go to a passport office to get mine because I was going overseas before that time frame. Also of note of all the passport offices in the US, only two had appointments available. Talked to a few people there, who all flew in from around the country so they could get theirs. It was a fun few days. 

1 hour ago, Diehardfan said:

If we can send billions to Ukraine we can afford to give every American who wants one an ID. Even if that means mobile units that go to lower income communities. 

It's such BS when people say it's an issue because I don't know how anyone can survive without one. How do they buy alcohol, cigarettes, put money in a bank, sign up for an account to deposit their pay or government assistance, travel, buy decongestant, get a hotel room, etc? 

IDs should be required to vote and if everyone has one then the GOP can shut up afterwards. 

Bro we are sending equipment to Ukraine, not actual money. How TF somebody gonna vote with an infantry fighting vehicle?

Also none of those things you listed are constitutionally enumerated rights. 

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

The wait time is -4 months. 
 

and he did have you. But do we really want the geriatrics deciding elections? Thats part of our current problem

He was in a wheelchair because he got run over by a Jeep Cherokee in a parking lot, not because he was infirm. And yeah, even into his 90s he still had his wits about him. Straight A at Wharton back in the 50s. Spoke five languages. Enlisted as a PFC and retired as a Captain. After he retired for the second time, to cure his boredom he took every math class at the local university, and when he got done taking them (literally all of them) he got bored again and started taking English comp and Lit courses. Read the NYT every day from when he was a teenager to a few weeks before he died. He actually had an opinion piece published in the NYT that he wrote in his 70s.

So yeah, I do.

32 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Uh. They’re French. Their nationality disincentivizes hard work. Incentivizes surrendering to Germans though. 

90% is nuts, even for the french

It just can't be that hard for a society to ensure that citizens can get an ID reasonably easily and at a cost that everyone can afford.  Of course, there will be some minor misuse of the system with some fake IDs out there but the level will be insignificant.  101 level stuff.

Also, once the process of getting an ID is ensured, it is a no-brainer to require presenting an ID to vote in a national election.  Again, kids stuff.

 

Congress should pass a law ensuring that all citizens have a simple and low cost access to getting an ID and that those IDs are valid for voting in any election of federal level officials, i.e. Congress/POTUS.  States that don't comply cannot send representatives to Congress and their electoral votes are thrown out.  Give states a full cycle so make this valid from the 2028 elections.

14 hours ago, mr_hunt said:

 

 

3 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

It just can't be that hard for a society to ensure that citizens can get an ID reasonably easily and at a cost that everyone can afford.  Of course, there will be some minor misuse of the system with some fake IDs out there but the level will be insignificant.  101 level stuff.

Also, once the process of getting an ID is ensured, it is a no-brainer to require presenting an ID to vote in a national election.  Again, kids stuff.

 

Congress should pass a law ensuring that all citizens have a simple and low cost access to getting an ID and that those IDs are valid for voting in any election of federal level officials, i.e. Congress/POTUS.  States that don't comply cannot send representatives to Congress and their electoral votes are thrown out.  Give states a full cycle so make this valid from the 2028 elections.

Privacy advocates have pushed back any attempt at a national ID card for decades. 

Some of us grew up when the very idea of an American being asked for their papers, was anathema.

7 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Everybody has the right to vote. Choosing policies that make it harder for a voting bloc whose politics you disagree with is antidemocratic by its very nature. 

Not felons. Or the under 18

1 hour ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Privacy advocates have pushed back any attempt at a national ID card for decades. 

Doesn't have to be a national card.

52 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

Some of us grew up when the very idea of an American being asked for their papers, was anathema.

Meh, nobody is forcing anyone to vote

3 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Meh, nobody is forcing anyone to vote

It is another dopey non-problem, that people think is some critical issue.

Worried about voter fraud? Insist on a paper trail, insist the election machine makers ARE NOT the inspectors and verifiers of the machines.

There is no serious national voting issue that ID fixes.

8 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

They live in poverty bro, they can't afford or have money to do any of this 😜

They do at least one of those. Their welfare checks don't come as cash. Everyone needs an ID to live these days.

7 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

It is another dopey non-problem, that people think is some critical issue.

So is the argument that there is something negative about requiring ID to vote.

Voting laws are set by each state. That's been affirmed by SCOTUS.

Most states require photo ID at the polls. This includes states like Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin. 

PA does not require it every time, but the first time you vote at a poll you are required to have some form of identification when you register or the first time you vote. 

Most states that don't have laws about showing photo ID each time you vote still require you to have it when you register. Registered voters are the only ones that count. 

This ridiculous notion that millions of illegals are somehow voting is entirely baseless. It's an allegation that has had zero evidence put forward to support it, but exists in the minds of people who don't want to believe their team is losing. 

For sure there are instances of voter fraud. And I don't doubt that some small number of illegals have voted in elections. But nothing remotely approaching anything that would change any outcomes, and administering an election with 160m+ voters with zero fraud is impossible. 

Parading around the exceptions (which most often in 2020 were Republicans committing voter fraud) doesn't prove anything. 

It's vapid mouth breathing motivated reasoning.

6 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Voting laws are set by each state. That's been affirmed by SCOTUS.

Most states require photo ID at the polls. This includes states like Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin. 

PA does not require it every time, but the first time you vote at a poll you are required to have some form of identification when you register or the first time you vote. 

Most states that don't have laws about showing photo ID each time you vote still require you to have it when you register. Registered voters are the only ones that count. 

This ridiculous notion that millions of illegals are somehow voting is entirely baseless. It's an allegation that has had zero evidence put forward to support it, but exists in the minds of people who don't want to believe their team is losing. 

For sure there are instances of voter fraud. And I don't doubt that some small number of illegals have voted in elections. But nothing remotely approaching anything that would change any outcomes, and administering an election with 160m+ voters with zero fraud is impossible. 

Parading around the exceptions (which most often in 2020 were Republicans committing voter fraud) doesn't prove anything. 

It's vapid mouth breathing motivated reasoning.

...and there is zero wrong with showing an ID when you vote.

1 minute ago, DrPhilly said:

...and there is zero wrong with showing an ID when you vote.

There is also no need for it if you've already shown it when you registered. You're legal to vote if you've registered, that's when they check your status. 

It's an artificial hurdle created against a myth of widespread voter fraud. 

I thought conservatives didn't like having extra laws that don't do anything on the books.

24 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

So is the argument that there is something negative about requiring ID to vote.

Yes, the fact that it would be a hurdle that would make it harder for many people to vote. 

Just now, JohnSnowsHair said:

There is also no need for it if you've already shown it when you registered. You're legal to vote if you've registered, that's when they check your status. 

It's an artificial hurdle created against a myth of widespread voter fraud. 

I thought conservatives didn't like having extra laws that don't do anything on the books.

No it isn't.  It is just plain old logical that when you go to vote you identify yourself.  You aren't forced to vote so you aren't forced to carry an ID and no one is asking to "see your papers".

We show ID over here and it works just fine.  There is no question as to who is voting under any given registration.  It isn't hard to get an ID and it would be quite easy to ensure that getting an ID in each state is reasonably easy.  There is literally nothing negative about it other than the fear of privacy and on that end there is no need to create a national card since each state can have its own card.

The entire argument against the requirement is the idea that a state will take advantage of that to restrict minorities from voting.  It isn't rocket science to put regulation in place to ensure that ID cards don't end up causing that issue.

2 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

Yes, the fact that it would be a hurdle that would make it harder for many people to vote. 

It just isn't that hard to regulate to ensure that the additional burden isn't more than a mere convenience.  I'm watching it work first hand where I live.  There is simply no problem with it at all and we have plenty of poor people, racism, class differences, right wing party, etc.

32 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

So is the argument that there is something negative about requiring ID to vote.

No, my argument is that it is a proposed fix for a problem not in the top 1,000,000 serious problems facing the USA.

 

Trumptards want everyone to believe the system is broken, to explain their loss. Accepting responsibility is not in their wheelhouse.

7 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

No, my argument is that it is a proposed fix for a problem not in the top 1,000,000 serious problems facing the USA.

Maybe we can agree here.  I can agree that this isn't the top problem to solve.  Can we also agree that requiring an ID to vote is just basic common sense and that if we had it in place you wouldn't be arguing to remove it? edit: Under the assumption that an ID is easy and cheap to acquire so it is readily available to everyone.

If we land there then we've come full circle and the result is "yes, it would be nice to have it BUT we have many other issues to deal with first".

10 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

No it isn't.  It is just plain old logical that when you go to vote you identify yourself.  You aren't forced to vote so you aren't forced to carry an ID and no one is asking to "see your papers".

We show ID over here and it works just fine.  There is no question as to who is voting under any given registration.  It isn't hard to get an ID and it would be quite easy to ensure that getting an ID in each state is reasonably easy.  There is literally nothing negative about it other than the fear of privacy and on that end there is no need to create a national card since each state can have its own card.

The entire argument against the requirement is the idea that a state will take advantage of that to restrict minorities from voting.  It isn't rocket science to put regulation in place to ensure that ID cards don't end up causing that issue.

Could just as easily just set up a system where your ID on file with the DMV/state is pulled up when you appear at the polls and they can verify it right there. 

Your identity is verified when you register. Requiring it at every vote is unnecessary, and is only a solution looking for a problem. 

Prove there is significant voting fraud because IDs aren't being checked and I may change my mind. Until then I'll see it for what it is: a political football that parties use to get their voters clutching pearls over unsubstantiated allegations rather than looking at the policies and politicians that are losing them support.

3 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Could just as easily just set up a system where your ID on file with the DMV/state is pulled up when you appear at the polls and they can verify it right there.

That's fine

btw - I agree this isn't the issue we should be prioritizing (see my reply to Toast).