JD Vance is so nice, he has a big KAMALA sign up at his rally.

2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

It would be a 1000% improvement.  At least Vance isn't certifiably insane.  He's a little weirdo but it's within the parameters of the political world.  Trump's a street-person-screaming-at-a-wall lunatic.  

Vance even called Walz to congratulate him on the VP nod.  That in and of itself tells me he's 1 million times more mature and normal than Trump.  And honestly that specific act of recognizing your opponent as someone worthy of (at minimum, behind closed doors) respect is what separates Trump from politicians who aren't such a serious threat to our country.

Vance has got nowhere to go but up and I actually think he's rebounding.  He's taken the jokes in stride and has kept himself humble but still punching.

3 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

 

JD Vance is so nice, he has a big KAMALA sign up at his rally.

It was really odd that he was talking in front of a sign with the only thing you could see was KAMALA in large letters. The optics on that are awful regardless of what it says below that. Who is making these decisions? It literally looks like he's speaking at a Harris rally.

4 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Counter point: one of the only saving graces of Trump's first term is that he is so incompetent and stupid, he wasn't able to accomplish many of the authoritarian things he wanted. Someone competent with Trump's complete lack of morals and desire for authoritarianism could be worse. 

Fair points. I guess I just don't think he's an authoritarian lunatic. I think he's just catering to whomever will let him advance himself the most. Which is amoral I guess, but with Trump gone I think that'll be less "overturn the election! Nuke hurricanes!" and more the more typical conservative pandering BS.

I dunno and frankly I don't want to find out.  It's just an embarrassingly low standard right now. 

15 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Compared to the alternative?  I'll take it. Vance is a greasy little ladder climbing weasel but he can form a full sentence and (presumably) has full control of his anus. So...win?

1 minute ago, DEagle7 said:

Fair points. I guess I just don't think he's an authoritarian lunatic. I think he's just catering to whomever will let him advance himself the most. Which is amoral I guess, but with Trump gone I think that'll be less "overturn the election! Nuke hurricanes!" and more the more typical conservative pandering BS.

I dunno and frankly I don't want to find out.  It's just an embarrassingly low standard right now. 

At this point, Trump and MAGA beliefs have completely taken over the GOP. The voters want an authoritarian strong man and have no interest in traditional Republican values of small government, free trade, etc. Vance will give the morons what they want. The only way back is for Trump to get crushed and then a reasonable, traditional conservative to rise up and become the new leader of the party. Basically what Reagan did after the disgrace of Watergate.

3 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Vance has got nowhere to go but up and I actually think he's rebounding.  He's taken the jokes in stride and has kept himself humble but still punching.

I guess.  I'm not sure how well he's rebounding.  He gets dragged every day.  But when you're standing next to Trump, you really have no choice but to take your beatings in stride.

The main thing is that once Trump's no longer the head of their party, they don't have to build their entire ethos around making sure he's not sad.  So once there's a new, presumably not extremely mentally ill person in charge, they don't have to collectively pretend they're winning elections they're losing, they don't have to try and overthrow elections, etc.  Because the main reason they're doing it is because that's what Trump demands they do so that his fear of being a loser is never fulfilled.  And the entire Republican Party, from the party leaders down to the base voter, is so brow beaten by this dude that they'll say or do literally anything to avoid hurting his feelings.

3 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

I guess.  I'm not sure how well he's rebounding.  He gets dragged every day.  But when you're standing next to Trump, you really have no choice but to take your beatings in stride.

The main thing is that once Trump's no longer the head of their party, they don't have to build their entire ethos around making sure he's not sad.  So once there's a new, presumably not extremely mentally ill person in charge, they don't have to collectively pretend they're winning elections they're losing, they don't have to try and overthrow elections, etc.  Because the main reason they're doing it is because that's what Trump demands they do so that his fear of being a loser is never fulfilled.  And the entire Republican Party, from the party leaders down to the base voter, is so brow beaten by this dude that they'll say or do literally anything to avoid hurting his feelings.

I think you're underestimating the amount of damage Trump has done in 8+ years to the party. The voters want his style. Authoritarian. Protectionist. Crude. Isolationist. boob. That's the GOP base now. The small government, free trade, pro-NATO block is long gone. It's why people like Romney have been chased out. 

To come back, they need a charismatic leader to emerge. Maybe a guy like Kemp, or Youngkin (who isn't really that MAGA). But the voters need to be rewired from grievance populism, and I'm not sure that can be done.

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

At this point, Trump and MAGA beliefs have completely taken over the GOP. The voters want an authoritarian strong man and have no interest in traditional Republican values of small government, free trade, etc. Vance will give the morons what they want. The only way back is for Trump to get crushed and then a reasonable, traditional conservative to rise up and become the new leader of the party. Basically what Reagan did after the disgrace of Watergate.

It's so f'n stupid.  The MAGA's are voting republican no matter what.  If the GOP wants to win put up the traditional republican up and you'll get a much larger turn out.  

 

Problem is, the more extreme voters make up a larger % of vote in the primaries vs the general election.

2 minutes ago, paco said:

It's so f'n stupid.  The MAGA's are voting republican no matter what.  If the GOP wants to win put up the traditional republican up and you'll get a much larger turn out.  

 

Problem is, the more extreme voters make up a larger % of vote in the primaries vs the general election.

I have long believed we need to either do away with primary elections, or hold them all on the same day to increase the turnout of normal people.

Just now, vikas83 said:

I think you're underestimating the amount of damage Trump has done in 8+ years to the party. The voters want his style. Authoritarian. Protectionist. Crude. Isolationist. boob. That's the GOP base now. The small government, free trade, pro-NATO block is long gone. It's why people like Romney have been chased out. 

To come back, they need a charismatic leader to emerge. Maybe a guy like Kemp, or Youngkin (who isn't really that MAGA). But the voters need to be rewired from grievance populism, and I'm not sure that can be done.

I think it'll be a lot easier than you do.  Republican voters fall in line.  It's their most notable feature.  Their outward enthusiasm may not match the Trump cult, but they'll vote for them anyway.

More than anything, they're just pulling for their favorite football team.  Sure, they lose Andy Reid but give them an offseason and they'll get behind Chip Kelly.  

1 minute ago, VanHammersly said:

I think it'll be a lot easier than you do.  Republican voters fall in line.  It's their most notable feature.  Their outward enthusiasm may not match the Trump cult, but they'll vote for them anyway.

More than anything, they're just pulling for their favorite football team.  Sure, they lose Andy Reid but give them an offseason and they'll get behind Chip Kelly.  

Eh, I disagree. There has been a radical shift in the GOP base to complete morons. Gullible rubes that will simply fall for the next snake oil salesman masquerading as a tough guy. These morons are supporting Putin, celebrating tariffs and wanting to withdraw from NATO. The party of Reagan and Bush is dead and buried.

Donald, the Law & Order candidate.

These cucks.

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I have long believed we need to either do away with primary elections, or hold them all on the same day to increase the turnout of normal people.

Hell, one baby step in the right direction is having the primaries for every state on the same day.  I switched to Republican to vote against Trump but by the time the PA primaries came around the writing was on the wall and I stopped caring.

Just now, paco said:

It's so f'n stupid.  The MAGA's are voting republican no matter what.  If the GOP wants to win put up the traditional republican up and you'll get a much larger turn out.  

 

Problem is, the more extreme voters make up a larger % of vote in the primaries vs the general election.

I'm not sure they are though. That's the problem they've created.  The MAGAs aren't voting Dem, that's for sure. But when their whole movement is based around attacking the "enemy du jour" how can you motivate voter turnout with a traditional republican trying to tackle normal, everyday issues with logical (but normal) policy?  

That's what made the movement dangerous. The coal that fuels the fire is an "enemy." Immigrants, trans, whatever. Once they hypothetically got rid of all the browns and the gays, they'd go back to saying that Italians and Irish (I'm kinda joking) because you need someone to be your bad guy. How do you appeal to a normal voter base when so much of your vote for the past decade is reliant on the freak show? 

7 minutes ago, Lloyd said:

I'm not sure they are though. That's the problem they've created.  The MAGAs aren't voting Dem, that's for sure. But when their whole movement is based around attacking the "enemy du jour" how can you motivate voter turnout with a traditional republican trying to tackle normal, everyday issues with logical (but normal) policy?  

That's what made the movement dangerous. The coal that fuels the fire is an "enemy." Immigrants, trans, whatever. Once they hypothetically got rid of all the browns and the gays, they'd go back to saying that Italians and Irish (I'm kinda joking) because you need someone to be your bad guy. How do you appeal to a normal voter base when so much of your vote for the past decade is reliant on the freak show? 

I agree with this.  I guess I should have added "they will just show up in lower numbers" and I think we will be in total agreement. 

 

Personally I believe if you went back to a normal candidate, the # of people turned off by Trump will outnumber the red hats who no longer care.

I think the MAGAs would vote for almost any  Republican...IF they don't go against their orange god. If it's someone beating Trump out in the primaries I see them sitting home or writing him in anyway. If he dies or through some inconceivable Grinch-level change in heart decides to let someone else run then I see those psychos falling in line to beat the Dems.

Either way I don't think we'll find out until Trump croaks. He's too embedded and stubborn to accept anyone else taking his spotlight in his own party. 

 

Just now, DEagle7 said:

I think the MAGAs would vote for almost any  Republican...IF they don't go against their orange god. If it's someone beating Trump out in the primaries I see them sitting home or writing him in anyway. If he dies or through some inconceivable Grinch-level change in heart decides to let someone else run then I see those psychos falling in line to beat the Dems.

Either way I don't think we'll find out until Trump croaks. He's too embedded and stubborn to accept anyone else taking his spotlight in his own party. 

Get ready for GOP Nominee Donald Trump Jr. 

They need to keep sending Pete out to talk to the press. I would love to see this man debate a MAGA cuck.

If he starts his next speech by yelling "SKIIIIIIIIIIIIIINER" then I am all in on the pick.

 

19 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I have long believed we need to either do away with primary elections, or hold them all on the same day to increase the turnout of normal people.

I also think opening them up could be of use.  Lots more people are independent than before.  Have it to where if you're already registered to a party, you get that party's primary, but if you're not affiliated, then you can pick which side you want a ballot for.

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

Get ready for GOP hominee Donald Trump Jr. 

He's too coked up and weird, and in the public eye for too long. That's why they're trying to make Barron into a thing. 

 

We really want to lose this race, and lose badly. We will ride this idiocy hard, and put it away wet.

I have no idea what these people will turn to when Trump is gone, but normie 1980's talking points sure as Hell won't fill that massive void. Batshite as he is, I think RFK might be on to something, like , why can't all the crazies agree on a platform?  They are crazy and by now are very used to flipping their angers arbitrarily as the winds go.  Why can't the future of MAGA be an all out DOOM party, run on conspiracy theories, climate radicalism, anti abortion, marxism, nativism and faux christianity?  None of these things actually clash philosophically, all the contrary they kinda fit better together than in the parties they are actually in.

 

Think about it, Kz could be a POTUS nominee.