1 hour ago, birdman#12 said:

Well, you can protect your QB in a number of ways.  You have to admit when you have a MVP caliber QB, if he gets hurt, the offense can suffer.  QBs simply don't need to be part of a designed running game.  Scrambling is one thing, design plays is another.  

A good OC can create a very effective and consistent offense without the need to run the QB.  A modern NFL QB is still most effective and dangerous when he is passing. 

Quick reads, quick progressions, quick decisions and quick release create more production and scores than a QB running.  Because the production a running QB makes can be replace by a RB......the production a good passing QB creates can't be replaced except by a back-up and usually not nearly as well.

That's one side of an argument. Another is that a QB that is likely to run usually requires defenses to use different strategies like utilizing a spy which can open things up in the pass.

If you take away Lamar Jackson's running, he isn't an MVP caliber QB. When Cunningham was the QB, you couldn't replace his rushing production with a RB simply because the blocking was awful. 

Anyway, back to my point ... We saw what the offense could do last year with Hurts. We could have done that this year except when we called the read options or the designed QB runs, Hurts was not finishing them like he did last year. Often the plays resulted in losses. So ... what was the point in even utilizing those plays if the QB (running) aspect is restrained? If the plan is to protect the QB at all cost (even if it means losing games), then replace those plays / add another element to the passing game that would equally open up other things in the pass. 

In the end, living to play tomorrow doesn't increase your chances of wining today. IMO, when you have a QB like Hurts, you should let him utilize 100% of his game. 

Lamar has always choked in the big moments by not being Lamar.  He's a dual threat, be a dual threat!  Ravens could've easily won that championship game if Lamar had just run for first downs instead of trying to beat KC with his arm. There were so many opportunities to gash them with his legs, yet he stayed in the pocket.   

I didn't mind Hurts not running as much this season, because I don't want the guy taking unnecessary hits.  Plus, when you have Swift in the backfield, and Brown, Smith, and Goedert at receiver, you don't need to have a lot of runs at the QB position. I'm not exaggerating in saying that next season, Hurts may have over 40 passing.TDs 

On 2/8/2024 at 12:31 PM, MF POON said:

  I didn't mind Hurts not running as much this season, because I don't want the guy taking unnecessary hits. 

Just out of curiosity, do you want your QB to hang in the pocket until the last possible moment to allow a route to develop and take the big hit for a potential positive play or would you rather he just throw it away every time before he could potentially take any big hit?

I'm just curious what constitutes an "unnecessary hit." Maybe all hits as a passer are necessary and all hits as a runner are unnecessary?

23 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Just out of curiosity, do you want your QB to hang in the pocket until the last possible moment to allow a route to develop and take the big hit for a potential positive play or would you rather he just throw it away every time before he could potentially take any big hit?

I'm just curious what constitutes an "unnecessary hit." Maybe all hits as a passer are necessary and all hits as a runner are unnecessary?

 

No one's going to call out a QB for trying to make a big play in the pocket unless the situation calls for it.  There's situations where as a QB, you just don't take the risk because it's  not worth it.  Hurts taking that safety against the bucs was unnecessary as not only do you give up 2 points, but you also took a hit on the play.  Holding the ball too long and taking a sack/big hit when you're just inside of FG range is also a big no-no.   

Also, big hits in the pocket are kind of expected to occur here and there with QBs. What fans don't want to see is a QB running towards defenders and lowering his shoulder like a RB. Sure, it's fine in certain moments, but not when your QB is consistently averaging more rushing attempts than the RB.  

 

36 minutes ago, MF POON said:

 

No one's going to call out a QB for trying to make a big play in the pocket unless the situation calls for it.  There's situations where as a QB, you just don't take the risk because it's  not worth it.  Hurts taking that safety against the bucs was unnecessary as not only do you give up 2 points, but you also took a hit on the play.  Holding the ball too long and taking a sack/big hit when you're just inside of FG range is also a big no-no.   

Also, big hits in the pocket are kind of expected to occur here and there with QBs. What fans don't want to see is a QB running towards defenders and lowering his shoulder like a RB. Sure, it's fine in certain moments, but not when your QB is consistently averaging more rushing attempts than the RB.  

 

Well ... the way I look at it, you have a chance to make a positive play, a negative play, or you can waste a down. If the QB drops back to pass and nobody is open and there's no path for a gain with his feet, he should throw the ball away (waste a down). If there is a path to run, he should run. If a receiver is getting open, he should give him a chance and potentially take a hit. 

As a runner, ball carriers always have the option to run out of bounds or slide. They can also mitigate the force of most hits by positioning their body as they run. They are also less likely to be landed on by 300 lb players as a runner as they are as a passer. 

At the end of the day, it's still tackle football. Injuries will happen. Pain is expected. What you can't do is prevent either. You can either play 100% or you can choose to give a little less out on the field. Give less and you are leaving yards out there, perhaps forcing your starters to play more snaps and expose themselves to more contact and at the very least, fatigue. 

2 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Well ... the way I look at it, you have a chance to make a positive play, a negative play, or you can waste a down. If the QB drops back to pass and nobody is open and there's no path for a gain with his feet, he should throw the ball away (waste a down). If there is a path to run, he should run. If a receiver is getting open, he should give him a chance and potentially take a hit. 

As a runner, ball carriers always have the option to run out of bounds or slide. They can also mitigate the force of most hits by positioning their body as they run. They are also less likely to be landed on by 300 lb players as a runner as they are as a passer. 

At the end of the day, it's still tackle football. Injuries will happen. Pain is expected. What you can't do is prevent either. You can either play 100% or you can choose to give a little less out on the field. Give less and you are leaving yards out there, perhaps forcing your starters to play more snaps and expose themselves to more contact and at the very least, fatigue. 

Yeah we could play the IF game all day, but the argument that was being made was Hurts taking unnecessary hits as a runner, not as a passer. No one wants him to stop running, but there's nothing wrong with being sensible about how often he runs, and how he finishes those attempts.  Arguing that players can get hurt no matter what they do is silly, as everyone already knows that. That logic doesn't somehow make Jalen choosing not to slide when he needs to, a good decision. It also doesn't negate the fact that RB's exist for a reason. Let them get more carries instead of exposing your expensive franchise QB.

I think what he means is that Hurts should run the ball only when he sees an open lane and knows he can get good yards and then slide. Or a designed fake to the QB. ie what Mahomes did in the last drive in the Superbowl.

Instead what we had last year was trying to run Hurts like a RB on 1st and 10 and then he gets hit just like a RB would. Thats not a smart way to manage your QB.

6 hours ago, MF POON said:

Yeah we could play the IF game all day, but the argument that was being made was Hurts taking unnecessary hits as a runner, not as a passer. No one wants him to stop running, but there's nothing wrong with being sensible about how often he runs, and how he finishes those attempts.  Arguing that players can get hurt no matter what they do is silly, as everyone already knows that. That logic doesn't somehow make Jalen choosing not to slide when he needs to, a good decision. It also doesn't negate the fact that RB's exist for a reason. Let them get more carries instead of exposing your expensive franchise QB.

Nobody is saying you can't still use RBs or give them more carries. But if your offense is calling plays primarily out of the shotgun, utilizing the read option as a tool for running can be very effective (see 2022) and give opponents problems, as long as the QB is committed to running if that is the correct read. In 2023, trying to "protect Hurts" completely neutralized the effectiveness of that element of the offense and the Eagles struggled to sustain drives and/or get first downs. Everybody could see last season that the Eagles' offense just wasn't ever hitting on all cylinders. 

Even if Jalen's play wasn't up to 2022's standard, the best way to get a guy like him back on track is to allow him to do the things he did in his best season. He was very comfortable in 2022, but last year, the sliding and all that --- it's just not him and so we got a version of him that was just that and the results were clear. I can't remember if Jalen had a single injury designation all year --- tell me ... where did "caution" get us? The year he was supposedly "reckless" he had the team in the Super Bowl and according to PFF:

2 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Nobody is saying you can't still use RBs or give them more carries. But if your offense is calling plays primarily out of the shotgun, utilizing the read option as a tool for running can be very effective (see 2022) and give opponents problems, as long as the QB is committed to running if that is the correct read. In 2023, trying to "protect Hurts" completely neutralized the effectiveness of that element of the offense and the Eagles struggled to sustain drives and/or get first downs. Everybody could see last season that the Eagles' offense just wasn't ever hitting on all cylinders. 

Even if Jalen's play wasn't up to 2022's standard, the best way to get a guy like him back on track is to allow him to do the things he did in his best season. He was very comfortable in 2022, but last year, the sliding and all that --- it's just not him and so we got a version of him that was just that and the results were clear. I can't remember if Jalen had a single injury designation all year --- tell me ... where did "caution" get us? The year he was supposedly "reckless" he had the team in the Super Bowl and according to PFF:

Kinda weird how there are no more crazy QB performances in the SB like what Montana 89 or Young 94 did since the PFF era started. And its supposed to be more of a passing league now.

Man I miss the days when I could cheer for both the Eagles and 49ers. Those were the days when their fans and players werent total asshats. 

14 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Nobody is saying you can't still use RBs or give them more carries. But if your offense is calling plays primarily out of the shotgun, utilizing the read option as a tool for running can be very effective (see 2022) and give opponents problems, as long as the QB is committed to running if that is the correct read. In 2023, trying to "protect Hurts" completely neutralized the effectiveness of that element of the offense and the Eagles struggled to sustain drives and/or get first downs. Everybody could see last season that the Eagles' offense just wasn't ever hitting on all cylinders. 

Even if Jalen's play wasn't up to 2022's standard, the best way to get a guy like him back on track is to allow him to do the things he did in his best season. He was very comfortable in 2022, but last year, the sliding and all that --- it's just not him and so we got a version of him that was just that and the results were clear. I can't remember if Jalen had a single injury designation all year --- tell me ... where did "caution" get us? The year he was supposedly "reckless" he had the team in the Super Bowl and according to PFF:

Sliding wasn't the issue, the issue was Hurts looked indecisive when he did run.  Also, many of the designed runs were very obvious and were defensed well by defenses.  Also, "caution" had nothing to do with why our offense stunk in the latter part of the season, or for Jalen's regression.

9 hours ago, MF POON said:

Sliding wasn't the issue, the issue was Hurts looked indecisive when he did run.  Also, many of the designed runs were very obvious and were defensed well by defenses.  Also, "caution" had nothing to do with why our offense stunk in the latter part of the season, or for Jalen's regression.

Obviously the team wanted to "protect the investment" after the contract. See for yourself (this is just a few plays from the 1st half of week 1) :

 

You simply cant ask a guy to do what Hurts did in 2022, but to give himself up. If you think that's indecision, then I contend that the indecision revolved around the slide / protecting himself. The man is used to finishing runs and that made the offense better. Example from 2022:

I also contend that "caution" did take it's toll on the offense late. The offense struggled at least a little bit in every game. As I said before, let your star "do what he does" if you want to see him, spark the team, gain confidence, extend drives or all of the above. Don't handicap his playmaking ability and don't sabotage his leadership by telling him to "quit" or "give himself up" on plays. 

On 2/15/2024 at 7:29 PM, brkmsn said:

Obviously the team wanted to "protect the investment" after the contract. See for yourself (this is just a few plays from the 1st half of week 1) :

 

You simply cant ask a guy to do what Hurts did in 2022, but to give himself up. If you think that's indecision, then I contend that the indecision revolved around the slide / protecting himself. The man is used to finishing runs and that made the offense better. Example from 2022:

I also contend that "caution" did take it's toll on the offense late. The offense struggled at least a little bit in every game. As I said before, let your star "do what he does" if you want to see him, spark the team, gain confidence, extend drives or all of the above. Don't handicap his playmaking ability and don't sabotage his leadership by telling him to "quit" or "give himself up" on plays. 

He had "caution" runs like that last year too. He also had the lower your shoulder runs like the one I've posted below, which resulted in a hit and a fumble in the first game this season. Anyway, I'm not gonna go back and forth with you anymore on this because it just feels like a pointless debate. good day to you

Can't-Miss Play: New England Patriots safety Jabrill Peppers forces game-altering fumble vs. Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Jalen Hurts late in fourth quarter (nfl.com)

On 2/6/2024 at 9:55 AM, DawkinsOwnage03 said:

11 wins and 40 tds isn’t a bad year lol

 

40TDs?

Edit: Oh you're talking about total TDs

Fletcher Cox:

 

"It's a Philly thing here "

28 minutes ago, uncphillyfan said:

"It's a Philly thing here "

"We keeping the main thang the main thang”

I just want to remind everyone that Jalen Hurts stunk most of the second half of last season.

Back to back turds at the end of the season versus the Giants and then Bucs.

 

Maybe next year he can learn how to throw it inside the 5 yard line

7 minutes ago, Godfather said:

Maybe next year he can learn how to throw it inside the 5 yard line

This.

Hurts is a ball hog at the goal line with 15 rushing TDs. D'Andre Swift only had 5 rushing TDs.

Does he get confused or something with a short field down in the red zone.

50 minutes ago, Godfather said:

Maybe next year he can learn how to throw it inside the 5 yard line

Pickett will be the starter by year end.  Hurts will have sports hernia from all of the deadlifts and squats he will be doing with Saqoun. 

5 hours ago, CouchKing said:

This.

Hurts is a ball hog at the goal line with 15 rushing TDs. D'Andre Swift only had 5 rushing TDs.

Does he get confused or something with a short field down in the red zone.

Maybe he can't throw accurate in tight spaces? Or maybe he wants to get a humbling rushing td

3 minutes ago, VeeMak said:

Pickett will be the starter by year end.  Hurts will have sports hernia from all of the deadlifts and squats he will be doing with Saqoun. 

I think Lane can out squat qb1

Just now, Godfather said:

I think Lane can out squat qb1

Hurts too busy worrying about powerlifting to get better at QB.  He can squat on deez 

Just now, VeeMak said:

Hurts too busy worrying about powerlifting to get better at QB.  He can squat on deez 

And he's still slow

1 minute ago, Godfather said:

And he's still slow

Yes, between the ears.  Very slow