Swoop Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 On 1/7/2024 at 8:36 PM, brkmsn said: You guys continue to crack me up. Hurts is his best when his feet are utilized. Everybody after last year was all, "We need to keep our best player healthy and not utilize his running ability near as much." Now that they convinced him to "protect himself" you are all complaining that he's not good enough... On a side note, he's still very young for NFL QB standards and has a lot of growth ahead of him. The expectations around here are completely unrealistic. He went from 11 carries per game to 9.2 Not much of a drop off, at all. He's just regressed back to the mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkmsn Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 hours ago, Swoop said: He went from 11 carries per game to 9.2 Not much of a drop off, at all. He's just regressed back to the mean. See if you can notice the difference between these runs and 2022: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoop Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 17 minutes ago, brkmsn said: See if you can notice the difference between these runs and 2022: Sure I do. Teams have been keying on it all season and he rarely has room to go for a big gain. Not for a lack of trying, as he's doing it almost as frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkmsn Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 15 minutes ago, Swoop said: Sure I do. Teams have been keying on it all season and he rarely has room to go for a big gain. Not for a lack of trying, as he's doing it almost as frequently. No. He's simply not finishing runs in an attempt to "protect himself." That's the big difference. Instead of finishing a play that may only be a 4 yard gain, he was sliding for a loss. That's a big difference on your play-calling the next down. I'm pretty sure this was a coaching directive, but it has taken his running dynamic and squelched it from the offense. He also did this with scrambles giving himself up for the low contact sacks. Once again ... all the fans that live in perpetual fear that running QBs are doomed and want to see him "take less hits" should not be complaining because this offense looks less effective than last year. Telling the QB to protect himself is like having a 12th defender on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleJoe8 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Or, perhaps, they could try this concept. Have fewer designed QB runs, and maybe…just maybe…turn around and hand the ball off to the players in the backfield called running backs! 😱 Maybe instead of calling so many QB runs that clearly are going no where and unnecessarily exposing the QB to extra hits, how about further developing him as a passer? This is where he throws the ball to receivers running routes downfield. Suppose it’s possible that successful execution of those two concepts can back the defense off a bit and make the QB runs more successful when they are added to the offense, and not make them a primary focal point? Just suppose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkmsn Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 11 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said: Or, perhaps, they could try this concept. Have fewer designed QB runs, and maybe…just maybe…turn around and hand the ball off to the players in the backfield called running backs! 😱 Maybe instead of calling so many QB runs that clearly are going no where and unnecessarily exposing the QB to extra hits, how about further developing him as a passer? This is where he throws the ball to receivers running routes downfield. Suppose it’s possible that successful execution of those two concepts can back the defense off a bit and make the QB runs more successful when they are added to the offense, and not make them a primary focal point? Just suppose. Obviously you can pigeon hole all QBs into a certain play-style and hope for the best or you can take a QB that has special unique abilities and utilize those. Ask any defensive player and the QBs that can run and throw are the hardest to defend and create the most frustration. Some things only work well because of the players' abilities. Imagine what Brock Purdy's numbers would look like if he had guys that were like Greg Ward after the catch. I don't disagree that one successful element in a scheme can open up another. But of course the opposite would be equally as true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles_Phan Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Biggest issue with evaluating Hurts' play this year is the horrific scheme. But that is further complicated by free lancing by the QB and WR. How many of the horrible schemes we saw on film were the result of the QB and WR deciding to do their own thing rather than what they were supposed to do? We'll never know, but it was definitely more than the one time we know about against Seattle. We need a new OC, one that isn't friends with Hurts and his father, who will actually hold his feet to the fire to run the plays that are called and to do it the right way. He's bailed from clean pockets far too much this year, failed to step up to avoid pressure and ran himself into pressure. We also need an OC that understands NFL hot routes and how to beat a blitz by design rather than just relying on the athleticism of the offensive talent, and one that uses scheme from time to time to create space for our playmakers... again, rather than just relying on them to win the 1 on 1 battles. And we need an OC that understands that the middle of the field isn't lava and we can actually use that part of the field for advancing the ball through the air. Maybe even use the space between the hashes, not just from the numbers out. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleJoe8 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 15 minutes ago, brkmsn said: Obviously you can pigeon hole all QBs into a certain play-style and hope for the best or you can take a QB that has special unique abilities and utilize those. Ask any defensive player and the QBs that can run and throw are the hardest to defend and create the most frustration. Some things only work well because of the players' abilities. Imagine what Brock Purdy's numbers would look like if he had guys that were like Greg Ward after the catch. I don't disagree that one successful element in a scheme can open up another. But of course the opposite would be equally as true. I think you’re missing the overall point, just like you were missing it last year after the Bears game. Jalen is a successful runner when he’s in space. He's not a successful runner going into the teeth of the defense. This offense will never be successful designing a game plan around the clips you showed. There is no upside to that crap. It’s a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmeraldArcher7154 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 37 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said: Or, perhaps, they could try this concept. Have fewer designed QB runs, and maybe…just maybe…turn around and hand the ball off to the players in the backfield called running backs! 😱 Maybe instead of calling so many QB runs that clearly are going no where and unnecessarily exposing the QB to extra hits, how about further developing him as a passer? This is where he throws the ball to receivers running routes downfield. Suppose it’s possible that successful execution of those two concepts can back the defense off a bit and make the QB runs more successful when they are added to the offense, and not make them a primary focal point? Just suppose. His threat to run was what made him such a weapon last season. Hurts needs to have that be a big part of his game or this is what we get. He does not have the arm or deep ball accuracy to work as a pocket passer and he doesn't have the type of weapons that can get you YAC like SF for example. Look at Mahomes and Allen respectfully. Their mobility is what allows them to do what they do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleJoe8 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, EmeraldArcher7154 said: His threat to run was what made him such a weapon last season. Hurts needs to have that be a big part of his game or this is what we get. He does not have the arm or deep ball accuracy to work as a pocket passer and he doesn't have the type of weapons that can get you YAC like SF for example. Look at Mahomes and Allen respectfully. Their mobility is what allows them to do what they do. 1 minute ago, EagleJoe8 said: I think you’re missing the overall point, just like you were missing it last year after the Bears game. Jalen is a successful runner when he’s in space. He's not a successful runner going into the teeth of the defense. This offense will never be successful designing a game plan around the clips you showed. There is no upside to that crap. It’s a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmeraldArcher7154 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said: the problem is he isn't trying to make those type of plays anymore. all he does is take runs for loses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleJoe8 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 9 minutes ago, EmeraldArcher7154 said: the problem is he isn't trying to make those type of plays anymore. all he does is take runs for loses. Good reason not to run those plays then. They’re a waste. Get the RBs involved. Get the wideouts involved more. If Hurts doesn’t have the arm to be a pocket passer as you said, then we’re screwed. His 2022 jump was in large part because he grew big time as a passer. Him being a passer is going to make his running more dangerous. If he can’t be a pocket passer, then we have the wrong QB, and any success going forward is going to be very limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmeraldArcher7154 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 7 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said: Good reason not to run those plays then. They’re a waste. Get the RBs involved. Get the wideouts involved more. If Hurts doesn’t have the arm to be a pocket passer as you said, then we’re screwed. His 2022 jump was in large part because he grew big time as a passer. Him being a passer is going to make his running more dangerous. If he can’t be a pocket passer, then we have the wrong QB, and any success going forward is going to be very limited. dual threat is the way of the nfl nowadays. we dont need a pocket passer. we need a guy who will make you pay with his legs as much as his arm. thats not him this season. His decision making is suspect and he seems to keep wanting to go for these big pass plays. if he was running like he was last year then opposing defenses would have to respect that which would open up the passing game. something is going on inside the locker room and he's at the center. i wouldnt be surprised if Hurts is checking into these plays. we already know he likes to go rogue with plays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoop Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, brkmsn said: No. He's simply not finishing runs in an attempt to "protect himself." That's the big difference. Instead of finishing a play that may only be a 4 yard gain, he was sliding for a loss. That's a big difference on your play-calling the next down. I'm pretty sure this was a coaching directive, but it has taken his running dynamic and squelched it from the offense. He also did this with scrambles giving himself up for the low contact sacks. Once again ... all the fans that live in perpetual fear that running QBs are doomed and want to see him "take less hits" should not be complaining because this offense looks less effective than last year. Telling the QB to protect himself is like having a 12th defender on the field. Sure, teams aren't keying on it. He has to go down because there's no where to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleJoe8 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, EmeraldArcher7154 said: dual threat is the way of the nfl nowadays. we dont need a pocket passer. we need a guy who will make you pay with his legs as much as his arm. thats not him this season. His decision making is suspect and he seems to keep wanting to go for these big pass plays. if he was running like he was last year then opposing defenses would have to respect that which would open up the passing game. something is going on inside the locker room and he's at the center. i wouldnt be surprised if Hurts is checking into these plays. we already know he likes to go rogue with plays I agree you don’t need a pocket passer only, but the ability to do damage as a passer needs to be the major part of being a dual threat. If Hurts can’t get that part of his game back, we are screwed. The thing is, even though Hurts has regressed this year, he’s still had his moments where he’s thrown beautiful passes, so I know it’s there. I certainly don’t believe that Hurts’ regression is 100% on the change at OC, but I do believe a better OC and system can get him going back in a better direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmeraldArcher7154 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 2 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said: I agree you don’t need a pocket passer only, but the ability to do damage as a passer needs to be the major part of being a dual threat. If Hurts can’t get that part of his game back, we are screwed. The thing is, even though Hurts has regressed this year, he’s still had his moments where he’s thrown beautiful passes, so I know it’s there. I certainly don’t believe that Hurts’ regression is 100% on the change at OC, but I do believe a better OC and system can get him going back in a better direction. i think it's more Hurts than the OC. I heard an interview with Dallas Goedert this week that made makes me think Hurts is a bigger problem than everyone originally though. also just watching how even his boy isn't rallying around him also makes me wonder what the locker room issue is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR-CYN Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 They ruined him with the big money. He's scared now. Now all he does is stand there patting the ball for 5 minutes. Falling down fumbling while I scream at the TV. 💩 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike030270 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 He's regressed in the way that he's bailing out of the pocket too soon again and not seeing all of the field. Get him a better OC and QB coach and get back to 2022 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncphillyfan Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 6 hours ago, Swoop said: Sure, teams aren't keying on it. He has to go down because there's no where to go. This is where the new Jalen got his start. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John944615 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Imo, running QBs are a waste of money. They are a duel threat until they want them to stop running to protect them from injury. This has always been the case since running qbs entered the league. And when they stop running they have to rely mostly on their passing game which usually isn't on par with pocket passers. And if they keep running, the odds are they will have injuries every season limiting their ability during the playoffs. I wish the Eagles just get a qb that is a pure passer but mobile enough to elude some sacks. We gone through this regression with McNabb, Wentz, and now Hurts (although it's only been one season). We even went through this somewhat with Randall Cunningham, but he was probably the best pocket passer out of the group and was on par or better than most passing qbs during his time. You would think the organization after 30 years would have learned something. Now, I know some people are going to compare the stats of the 4 qbs, but you can't compare them as they all played under different rules which became more and more qb friendly over the past 30 years. That's why some qbs who are called scrubs today have better stats than many of the legends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoop Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 The last passing TD Hurts got on the road was in October. Yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devaster Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 1/12/2024 at 6:51 AM, Iggles_Phan said: Biggest issue with evaluating Hurts' play this year is the horrific scheme. But that is further complicated by free lancing by the QB and WR. How many of the horrible schemes we saw on film were the result of the QB and WR deciding to do their own thing rather than what they were supposed to do? We'll never know, but it was definitely more than the one time we know about against Seattle. We need a new OC, one that isn't friends with Hurts and his father, who will actually hold his feet to the fire to run the plays that are called and to do it the right way. He's bailed from clean pockets far too much this year, failed to step up to avoid pressure and ran himself into pressure. We also need an OC that understands NFL hot routes and how to beat a blitz by design rather than just relying on the athleticism of the offensive talent, and one that uses scheme from time to time to create space for our playmakers... again, rather than just relying on them to win the 1 on 1 battles. And we need an OC that understands that the middle of the field isn't lava and we can actually use that part of the field for advancing the ball through the air. Maybe even use the space between the hashes, not just from the numbers out. They ran the same scheme as last season. But now teams had an entire offseason to adapt to it and it looks like the new OC wasn't up to the task. They have still been able to score a good amount of points this season on pure talent alone, but the scheme has held them back from being an elite offense. Looking forward to a new OC next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawkinsOwnage03 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Let’s chill till next season with this, I have 2 maybe 3 L’s max on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimm Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Must be 2019, Because We're Talking About a Joe Santoliquito Eagles Story https://www.crossingbroad.com/2024/01/must-be-2019-because-were-talking-about-a-joe-santoliquito-eagles-story.html Oh boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
time2rock Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 FTR I take all "reports” with a grain of salt (including this one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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