1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

IF Sirianni had a staff full of excellent NFL offensive minds, the offense would be destined to fail because of the QB we have. Siri correctly had college RPO experts here to help Hurts. The NFL figured it out but we are stuck with Hurts at QB. So we cant just install an NFL offense and adjust. We are stuck.

I actually think this might be wrong. I think it might actually be the opposite. That is, that Hurts has been babied too much in the NFL. I think it's fair to try to adjust to people's strengths, but there's not really anything that should be preventing the Eagles Offense from running a normal, run of the mill, under center play every once in a while. Some up the middle, some tosses, and a three step drop and release.

The weirdest thing is, if you notice last year, some of Hurts most impressive throws were actually the mundane ones - timing routes that were on time a LOT. And I mean a LOT.

The sheer refusal to do even simple things like that to such a degree makes me feel like he's been babied too much. And the weirdest part of all, in my opinion, was that if you wanted to give him a huge contract, babying him is the exact OPPOSITE of what you want to do. 

Do I think Sirianni should be fired for babying him? No, I think if you look at what Shanahan is doing, he's babying Purdy too, he just so happens to be one of the best offensive minds in the NFL so he can continue to baby not only him but nearly every QB they have. But he's a second generation to a Super Bowl Winning Head Coach, who was also much more experienced than Sirianni when he became head coach. So that's a different situation.

If it were me, I'd stop babying him immediately, and if he can't handle that, then I'd find someone who can.

3 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Even if you are right, it’s irrelevant as Hurts’ contract means he is here for the next 3-4 years minimum. So whatever he can run, that’s what we have to do. If Nick and Brian can’t maximize Hurts, they are gone because Hurts can’t be cut or traded. 

How did they move on so soon from Wentz?

6 minutes ago, Arsenal79 said:

Nick Sirianni is a "strong leader" = higher level thinking lolololol

Being willing to consider there is a ton happening behind the scenes and that there may be answers more subtle than "fire them all!” Is a start though

2 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

There are things Hurts needs to clean up for sure, but AJ Brown and Smith being so demonstrably frustrated after failed 3rd downs has bugged me for quite awhile.  There’s a fine line between getting the ball to your best targets and force-feeding them.  Both Brown and Smith want the ball a lot, but need to temper their disdain when the ball doesn’t go their way.

Well I think that comes with the territory of having two 1,200 yard receivers on the same offense. But you’re right, don’t act immature and throw hissy fits. These last 7 weeks have been a result of losing, frustration sets in and things that you normally don’t voice to reporters, now you are, because you’re pissed. All three of those guys need to get it figured out this off-season, they are huge pieces to this offense. 

Fans will dig their heels in and be stubborn about the narrative they choose.  Some of you blame ONLY Hurts and are saying Siri is doing just fine.  Some are blaming ONLY Siri.  Some say Siri's fine, it's Brian Johnson.  Some fans have actually said keep Siri and Johnson that the DC is the problem.  Some like Desai and think he should be the DC but it's the roster that's the problem.

In the words of Jason Kelce: "It's the whole team!"

Plenty of blame to go around.  Hurts looked lost at times this year...then he'd make some amazing plays. The defense came up huge at times and made halftime adjustments holding the Dolphins and Chiefs to 0 points in the 2nd half (fact check me, I think it was those teams).  Then, they collapsed.

There are very few players and coaches who don't deserve any blame (Smitty, Elliot, Clay as Special Teams coach to name a few).

It doesn't need to be "sides" or factions when there are a lot of problems. Hurts is going nowhere with his contract.  So the organization will backup the investment with upgrades at coaching.  Hurts is going nowhere.  But the coaches got roasted by everyone in the world on social media tonight and the broadcast.  They are clearly the main problem.  Hurts is also a problem.  The defensive roster is also a problem.  Lots of problems.

It will actually make me feel better if we find out tomorrow that Hurts was playing injured all season.  He didn’t look right in his mobility from the very start of the season.  He needs to have his mobility intact to be truly effective.  
 

Whether he was curtailing his running because the coaches were telling him to, or he never had his wheels is something we’ll need to find out.

10 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Ok.  Probably no one will lol.

Hurts was the MVP runner up last year, and everyone was amazed at his progress from the previous season.  Steichen had him playing great, calling creative plays and the offense wasn't boring and predictable.

I want to see what he does with a new OC (and hopefully HC) next year.  I love Kelce, he's on my Mount Rushmore of Eagles in history.  He means a lot to fans and the city and community.  Hard to compare anyone to him.  DeVonta Smith is a great player but isn't loved like Kelce either.  He's not a "personality" he's just a great player.  It's great when a player is well loved like Kelce, but if that's the bar then most players will fall short of that.

I'm fine if my QB is stoic and doesn't say much and gives player-speak to the media in press conferences.  If the players think he's a good teammate, if he goes out and wins and performs that's his job.  The rest is extra.  Yes, Hurts regressed this year, so did a lot of players.  So I want to see him next year with new coaching and see how the offense looks.

I’m not saying Hurts should be traded. Just saying that this city embraces those we can relate to. Hurts does not relate to this fanbase and probably never will. And Smitty is ABSOLUTELY a personality. Need to lock him up long term. 

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

DC hiring is an issue.

The offensive hires were out of necessity to give his QB the best chance of success. The problem is now its been figured out and they are stuck because they cant just install a more sophisticated offense. Hurts wont be able to run it effectively, and like it or not hes our QB for at least the next 2 years. 

Doesnt everyone say Lurie/Howie insist on this defensive scheme? Is it going to be Nicks fault when it’s convenient to support the fire nick narrative?

Since Nick was hired, I would assume he was in line with the front office on defensive schemes designed to limit explosive plays and keeps as many players in coverage as possible. He knew Gannon, who wasn’t really Fangio-like. They got screwed out of Fangio and likely put a lot of stock into Fangio being his biggest cheerleader. I’ve read conflicting things on Patricia. That Howie suggested it but that Sirianni had gotten to know him and respected him.

8 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Even if you are right, it’s irrelevant as Hurts’ contract means he is here for the next 3-4 years minimum. So whatever he can run, that’s what we have to do. If Nick and Brian can’t maximize Hurts, they are gone because Hurts can’t be cut or traded. 

Technically could cut hurts as a post June 1st but that’s a lot of dead money and no savings the first two years. It’s not gonna happen 

 

8 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Nick Foles was struggling when he took over for Wentz.  They went to the tape when he had his successful season with Chip running RPO and adapted the offense to his strengths.

People around here move the goal post all the time.  They want coaches that call plays that suit the players strengths not force a square peg into a round hole.  But when they do and you don't like the QB, then the narrative is what you are posting.

 

The Foles RPO offense came out of nowhere that year and caught teams off guard. Nick made quick decisions whereas Hurts became indecisive this year (because defenses figured it out and gave him false reads). That team also had a dominant run game which was much more varied than what we had this year which mostly carried them. The offense scored a few points and then the run game grinded clock the rest of the game. We dont have that this year.

Hurts came in and stunk as a rookie, and stunk again as basically a rookie. They perfected it last year, and by now, year 4 of Hurts starting its stale and figured out. And...theyre stuck.

Theres no changing narrative. Theres only paying attention to actual events and not simplifying it without context. 

Obviously it wasnt stale for the couple of games Foles had to do it. Also, no one was talking about RPOs when Kelly was here. Ever. It was all about the read option back then. We first heard about RPOs as eagles fans with Foles and Doug. So its not been around quite as long as you were hoping to imply. 

 

2 minutes ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

I actually think this might be wrong. I think it might actually be the opposite. That is, that Hurts has been babied too much in the NFL. I think it's fair to try to adjust to people's strengths, but there's not really anything that should be preventing the Eagles Offense from running a normal, run of the mill, under center play every once in a while. Some up the middle, some tosses, and a three step drop and release.

The weirdest thing is, if you notice last year, some of Hurts most impressive throws were actually the mundane ones - timing routes that were on time a LOT. And I mean a LOT.

The sheer refusal to do even simple things like that to such a degree makes me feel like he's been babied too much. And the weirdest part of all, in my opinion, was that if you wanted to give him a huge contract, babying him is the exact OPPOSITE of what you want to do. 

Do I think Sirianni should be fired for babying him? No, I think if you look at what Shanahan is doing, he's babying Purdy too, he just so happens to be one of the best offensive minds in the NFL so he can continue to baby not only him but nearly every QB they have. But he's a second generation to a Super Bowl Winning Head Coach, who was also much more experienced than Sirianni when he became head coach. So that's a different situation.

If it were me, I'd stop babying him immediately, and if he can't handle that, then I'd find someone who can.

I was a complete nonbeliever in Hurts. I didn’t think he had it in him to become a real top tier NFL QB - reading defenses, looking past his first read, and not just taking off as soon as he saw ghosts. 
 

and then he shut me up last year and I was very happy to be wrong. 
 

and then there was this season where he regressed, a lot. 
 

Which season was the anomaly? How much is Hurts? How much is the OC?

8 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

DC hiring is an issue.

The offensive hires were out of necessity to give his QB the best chance of success. The problem is now its been figured out and they are stuck because they cant just install a more sophisticated offense. Hurts wont be able to run it effectively, and like it or not hes our QB for at least the next 2 years. 

Doesnt everyone say Lurie/Howie insist on this defensive scheme? Is it going to be Nicks fault when its convenient to support the fire nick narrative?

They can definitely install a more complicated offense. I think it's unfair to say that Hurts can't handle even the more basic NFL offenses for certain. I think it's more accurate to say they tried not to make him uncomfortable, and it backfired. The fact of the matter is, in football, you HAVE to be uncomfortable sometimes. That's how you grow.

Being TOO comfortable causes complacency and stagnation. I think if you bring in somebody with a lot of experience like a Norv Turner, or someone who will actually try to GROW his skillset rather than MAINTAIN it (because Jalen is too close to the OC) I think it works a lot better.

I honestly think with Hurts you need an OC that pushes him as a player. To much buddy buddy and stuff like this happens. He wasn't paid all that money to be babied.

7 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

It started game 1 with hurts, when the patriots were throwing zone looks at him and he looked lost all the way back then. Then every team the rest of the year threw different zone looks at him. 

yep. They know he needs to read just 1 player on the defense. So they make that player show a different look pre-snap. Once the ball is snapped and he does something different Hurts has to think and it all goes to hell. Indecisiveness. His option he thought would be open ends up covered. Panic. Sack. Turnover. Run for minimal gain, etc.

49 minutes ago, Iggles25 said:

Here we go:

Ravens win Super Bowl.

Eagles poach OC Todd Monken.

Thoughts?

I'd want Greg Roman, who is available.    Roman + Lamar started 19-3.

The Eagles could hire him as a position coach and run game coordinator,  if they don't want to make major changes on offense.

8 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

those hitches were open today with enough yardage for the 1st downs. QB didnt throw them. He faded away and threw to people at the line of scrimmage instead. 

Yeah, I don’t think those hitches were open as much as you think. There was one to Goedert for sure though. 

3 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

I’m not saying Hurts should be traded. Just saying that this city embraces those we can relate to. Hurts does not relate to this fanbase and probably never will. And Smitty is ABSOLUTELY a personality. Need to lock him up long term. 

I love me some Smitty.  Yeah I don't think Hurts will be embraced the way Kelce is, Bryce Harper, others.  Philly fans like emotional passionate players that are "fiery" like Jeff Garcia!  

If Hurts has a strong season next year, if he delivers a Super Bowl championship eventually, then who cares.  I'm a huge Kelce fan, he's bigger than just a football player.  But not everyone will be like that.  In fact that is rare.

1 minute ago, purplefiggy said:

I was a complete nonbeliever in Hurts. I didn’t think he had it in him to become a real top tier NFL QB - reading defenses, looking past his first read, and not just taking off as soon as he saw ghosts. 
 

and then he shut me up last year and I was very happy to be wrong. 
 

and then there was this season where he regressed, a lot. 
 

Which season was the anomaly? How much is Hurts? How much is the OC?

The answer is usually somewhere in the middle. But I think if you think about what changed from last year to this year...

Last year, the staff was designed around making the team the best it could be, similar to the first year, right? But this year, it was literally designed around keeping things familiar and digestible for Hurts.

I think that was a huge mistake. You want to grow talent, not maintain it. Not sure if you follow the 76ers but think about if rather than trying to develop Maxey, they just thought it was fine that he stayed at the same place, and no one pushed him at all. Don't you think that'd be a mistake? I think it's the same here. Coaches who win championships push people, they don't sit there and simply make them comfortable.

9 minutes ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

I actually think this might be wrong. I think it might actually be the opposite. That is, that Hurts has been babied too much in the NFL. I think it's fair to try to adjust to people's strengths, but there's not really anything that should be preventing the Eagles Offense from running a normal, run of the mill, under center play every once in a while. Some up the middle, some tosses, and a three step drop and release.

The weirdest thing is, if you notice last year, some of Hurts most impressive throws were actually the mundane ones - timing routes that were on time a LOT. And I mean a LOT.

The sheer refusal to do even simple things like that to such a degree makes me feel like he's been babied too much. And the weirdest part of all, in my opinion, was that if you wanted to give him a huge contract, babying him is the exact OPPOSITE of what you want to do. 

Do I think Sirianni should be fired for babying him? No, I think if you look at what Shanahan is doing, he's babying Purdy too, he just so happens to be one of the best offensive minds in the NFL so he can continue to baby not only him but nearly every QB they have. But he's a second generation to a Super Bowl Winning Head Coach, who was also much more experienced than Sirianni when he became head coach. So that's a different situation.

If it were me, I'd stop babying him immediately, and if he can't handle that, then I'd find someone who can.

Im with you. He should be thrown in to the fire of real NFL offense next year. Its the only move because a primarily RPO passing attack can no longer work in the NFL. Its figured out like the wildcat. Hurts likely cant handle it but its the only move left to make. Make him run the offense and if he cant handle it then its time to start figuring out how to move on after the season. 

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Technically could cut hurts as a post June 1st but that’s a lot of dead money and no savings the first two years. It’s not gonna happen 

 

I don’t think that’s accurate. I read somewhere that his contract is pretty complicated so I wouldn’t take it as fact.

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

I don’t think that’s accurate. I read somewhere that his contract is pretty complicated so I wouldn’t take it as fact.

If someone has the right one I’d love to see it. It’s not happening either way though (moving on from him) 

5 minutes ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

They can definitely install a more complicated offense. I think it's unfair to say that Hurts can't handle even the more basic NFL offenses for certain. I think it's more accurate to say they tried not to make him uncomfortable, and it backfired. The fact of the matter is, in football, you HAVE to be uncomfortable sometimes. That's how you grow.

Being TOO comfortable causes complacency and stagnation. I think if you bring in somebody with a lot of experience like a Norv Turner, or someone who will actually try to GROW his skillset rather than MAINTAIN it (because Jalen is too close to the OC) I think it works a lot better.

I honestly think with Hurts you need an OC that pushes him as a player. To much buddy buddy and stuff like this happens. He wasn't paid all that money to be babied.

Agreed. Promoting his buddy Brian Johnson has clearly backfired. Look elsewhere. Get a real OC in here and see if Hurts can handle it. He gets one more season to prove it. 

9 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

It will actually make me feel better if we find out tomorrow that Hurts was playing injured all season.  He didn’t look right in his mobility from the very start of the season.  He needs to have his mobility intact to be truly effective.  
 

Whether he was curtailing his running because the coaches were telling him to, or he never had his wheels is something we’ll need to find out.

It’s got to be something. He didn’t look dynamic, even when he did took off running. That or he bulked up too much which took away his speed?

4 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Yeah, I don’t think those hitches were open as much as you think. There was one to Goedert for sure though. 

and another to Smith that we saw as well. Im sure there were more examples. At half time the ball was moving and I thought Hurts might bring us back. Entire 2nd half, he turtled up and faded away from every single throw and even turned away as he threw once. He was not looking at the field at all. Routes were open today, and Hurts became horrible. 

Man, I’ve gotta go to bed. I’ve spent more energy tackling HE’s posts than the Eagles did tonight against Tampa. 

7 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Im with you. He should be thrown in to the fire of real NFL offense next year. Its the only move because a primarily RPO passing attack can no longer work in the NFL. Its figured out like the wildcat. Hurts likely cant handle it but its the only move left to make. Make him run the offense and if he cant handle it then its time to start figuring out how to move on after the season. 

It's more than this. A primary ANY KIND of passing attack can no longer work in the NFL. If your scheme is designed in such a way where you only have like two formations, and don't really do anything to confuse defenses, you WILL be figured out eventually. It's not really entirely Nick's fault either. He was trained in a scheme most recently that was more or less ineffective without really accurate small adjustments, I think. 

So in my opinion, he needs to be exposed to more offensive ideas. A guy like Norv Turner or someone else who's older and good OC but not head coach material would help out a lot. I say this to people a lot, pairing young coaches after losing their first staff with even younger coaches is a recipe for disaster unless your head coach is top 5. It never makes sense because the time when a coach loses their first staff is often the HARDEST experience they deal with as a head coach. 

Andy Reid is generational, but remember what happened to HIM when he lost his first staff? It took him several YEARS to recover. So it's going to be even worse with younger coaches who weren't from a tree like Holmgren-Walsh.