Nice to see Eagles win a game on the margins and beat a good special teams on special teams. That's a new one. Clutch punting, punt returning/coverage and defense got off the field in crucial drives. Of course winning the turnover battle was critical. Offense stalled a bunch, but that Spags- run  defense is really good. Found a way. Again, not playing their best, but did do so when it matters most. Defense looks to be less of a liability after Byard and Roby settling in & learning defense. Think we will see that improve over the next few weeks, with communication especially. Need to navigate these games without Goedert. Think they will figure out that better as well. Need Hurts with a healthier leg and an early clinching the #1 seed is key here, for that alone.

Shoutout to Howie on nailing the in season acquisitions with Mann, Byard and Roby. All massive upgrades. Also expect Julio,  moving forward, to come up clutch especially in red zone. A great ugly W! Chiefs tend to play those kinda games regardless.

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Idk kind of feeling like Warren is beginning to emerge. Frankly they might have wanted to give Warren more touches earlier this year. He was about the only useful part of that offense sunday. 

I almost said Harris\Warren, but kept it just Harris since he was the most recent to complain.

Jalen checked to that play when he threw it deep to DeVonta.

 

https://www.crossingbroad.com/2023/11/nick-sirianni-says-jalen-hurts-actually-checked-to-deep-bomb-for-devonta-smith.html

 

1 minute ago, jojodancer said:

Nice to see Eagles win a game on the margins and beat a good special teams on special teams. That's a new one. Clutch punting, punt returning/coverage and defense got off the field in crucial drives. Offense stalled a bunch, but that Spags- run  defense is really good. Found a way. Again, not playing their best, but did do so when it matters most. Defense looks to be less of a liability after Byard and Roby stlettling in & learning defense. Think we will see that improve over the next few weeks, with communication especially. Need to navigate these games without Goedert. Think they will figure out that better as well. Need Hurts with a healthier leg and an early clinching the #1 seed is key here, for that alone.

Shoutout to Howie on nailing the in season acquisitions with Mann, Byard and Roby. All massive upgrades. Also expect Julio,  moving forward l, to come up clutch especially in red zone. A great ugly W! Chiefs tend to olay those kinda games regardless.

 

 

 

Covey looked good last night...

 

46 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

lolwut?

If he's down prior to the pass, then it's not grounding at all, it's a sack.

That's why I said 95%.  I've seen grounding called where it looked like the QB went down the same time he threw the ball.  Doesnt happen often but it does happen.  That's a sack but the officials called grounding since grounding is non reviewable.  Would suck if they called it a sack instead, gets challenged, and turns out the QB WASNT down and ends up being incomplete. 

2 minutes ago, paco said:

I almost said Harris\Warren, but kept it just Harris since he was the most recent to complain.

I’d laugh if they bench him more. Frankly they really need to get Pickens more involved. Kid has too much talent to be getting like 3 targets a game. 

One of the players that has impressed me for the Eagles this year is Blankenship, he just seems to be around the ball when I have watched you guys play. He's no Dawkins but so far I see a lot of upside for him.

16 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I don't disagree, but the average player wasn't as nimble back then either, so those guys were blocking less nimble defenders and so were just as effective...   just so hard to compare different eras even amongst OL, which you would think would be easier than others, but its still very different.

Jerry Kramer was only 245lbs...  meanwhile, the RBs he was blocking for were both 215lb (Taylor and Hornung).   So, only 30 lbs different.  
Kelce is listed at 295lbs... but blocking for RBs that are smaller than those from the Packers hey-day.  (Scott and Gainwell are 200 lbs.  Swift is listed at 215.)

Hannah falls in the middle... he was listed at 265.

Yeah it is crazy how the size of OL have changed over the decades. There was a cowboys game on thanksgiving where an older cowyboys lineman stood next to one that had retired recently at midfield, and the size difference was comical. I'll see if I can find a pic of it.

 

Quote

I think its safe to say that Kelce is easily the most athletic, lb for lb, given that he's so much bigger than these other guys (which is crazy to say, because he's always been considered 'small' for today's game).  But, when it comes to comparing eras, you have to compare their effectiveness against their contemporaries, and guys who had access to the same training, nutrition, etc.  Kelce easily gets the nod for this generation... which automatically puts him in the conversation with the all-time greats... but I just don't see a way to do a fair comparison across eras.

Yeah I think that's a fair way to frame it. 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’d laugh if they bench him more. Frankly they really need to get Pickens more involved. Kid has too much talent to be getting like 3 targets a game. 

Disagree.  They need to shut Pickens down for the year because if runs any more routes and Pickett misses him, Pickens might just stab him when they are back in the huddle.

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

 

He was held ALL NIGHT LONG on the plays where it was 1on1. And even on a couple where he was doubled. 

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I'd be fine with that... if I could trust the officials to understand 'situations' and not be stupid with it.   (Exhibit A - Super Bowl ending.   That was a moment to keep the flag in the pocket and let the players determine the outcome, that was not egregious... and that's what it needed to be to be flagged.).  But some of them seem to think that they matter more than the game itself.

Agreed - the NFL should be cultivating officiating crews that are less interventionist through their scoring criteria, etc.

A developmental league has been discussed here before to help player/QB depth, but I think the effect on officiating would be nearly as pronounced… full-time officials, where the cowboys are weeded out before they make it to the real games (or a place they can be demoted to).

46 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I wouldn't call that resiliency. All of those dropped passes would have kept drives going. Brian is still calling extremely stupid plays too

They'll brush off the negatives until a loss comes. It's a funny cycle they do lol

Again a dope point with the dropped passes because guess what the Chiefs have done all year and lead the league in, dropped passes so it wasnt an anomaly last night 

This team is 9 1 and what 23-2 with Hurts starting, at some point you come off as hater and with a loser mentality.

 

This was Mahomes 5th WORST game in his career according to success rate.  When he faced Johnny Gannon he had his 3rd and 7th best games of his career, but yeah this team is soooooooooo terrible.

9 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I think it's got to be the dumbest NFL coaching decision I still see made fairly regularly. Kicking FGs from 4th and goal from the 2 or 3 yd line used to be it, but teams finally caught on there after years of settling for FGs. I still see that on occasion, but punting from midfield still happens like every week it seems. I honestly don't get it.

There's nothing wrong with punting from midfield.  As a coach, your players will make you look smart or dumb.  An NFL punter and coverage team should be expert at pinning the other team inside their own 10 yard line from there -- then your defense can apply huge pressure to the opponent.  A punt from the 50 that pins the other team at their 5-6 yard line is excellent.  It's good special teams work and complementary football.

Having said all that, punting from the 39-yard line was dumb.  Didn't make any sense there unless it was 4th and 12 or more.    

 

2 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

This team is 9 1 and what 23-2 with Hurts starting, at some point you come off as hater and with a loser mentality.

 

Hurts is a winner, simple as that. A lot of coaches would refer to him as a gym rat in basketball, he realizes what he needs to work on and gets better at his weaknesses, the transformation from '21 to last year was incredible. Because of his work ethic and his leadership he changes the whole dynamic of the locker room, yes he gets help from others like Kelce, but the team is his, because of his dedication to the game and the team first...guys are going to follow that all day, every day.

The next progression in his development as one of the best in the game will be pre-snap reads and audible calls, once he shows that ability at a high level and they give him the freedom to do so more often, he will kill opposing defenses IMO. I'm not saying he doesn't do it now, he just doesn't do it enough, from games I've watched.

23 minutes ago, Joe Ball said:

Do I hate the Eagles? Nah, I dislike them when they play the Cowboys though...😂. I have a way I follow teams of any sport.

1. Teams I am a fan of, if they are out of the playoffs then
2. Teams in the same district/conference as "my" teams, if they are out of the playoffs then 
3. a) Teams in Texas OR b) Underdogs & Teams that have never won a title, I typically lean to the underdogs, I love a good David beats Goliath game.

OK, having said all that I cannot stand the 49'ers, and if they are in the SB I will root for the AFC...if it's the Eagles? I will pull for you guys. Weird huh?

Sorry for the long post, really I could have just said I appreciate good football...but now you guys have something to give me a hard time about.

That's a very NCAA outlook, as I see it.  NCAA, there are benefits to teams in your conference doing well in bowl games, etc.   But, not so much in the NFL.   I get the logic of it... but I can't get behind it.   I look at teams in the same division as the Eagles about the same way that Ohio State fans look at Michigan (and vice versa).  I don't believe I've ever heard of an OSU fan pulling for Michigan... ever.  (and vice versa).  Your outlook almost aligns with the Service Academies.... I truly believe that Army and Navy actually pull for each other in every contest the other is involved in... except for one.  And then its all, "Go Army, Beat Navy", and vice versa.   But, even then, I don't think there's ever any true animosity like there is for UM and OSU.  There is literal hate for some folks on both sides of that one...  not so much (or even at all) with the Academies.

Couldn't find the pic I was thinking of with the two retired OL, but found this chart on a vox article

They attribute the evolution to rule changes that halted two-way play and penalties for high-low blocks / chopblocks / etc which gave way to specialization.

24 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

When the whole reid firing went down, I was one of the few people that said, I actually think it’s not crazy to keep reid as he didn’t forget how to coach and there were other issues internally with this organization. also if you believed that Nick Foles could be your franchise quarterback, reid was the best guy to help him get there. Might not be a better guy to help get him them (not saying foles was just that if you believed he could be). But I also understood with everything that was going on off the field with his family, how the last two seasons had played out, and then the whole power struggle that got leaked out that they were going to make the move.

two thoughts on if they did keep reid: first if you kept Andy Reid, would Howie Roseman still be here? I don’t think you would have both of them. Howie wants to be the architect and don’t think andy would’ve just conceded that based on some of the stuff that leaked and how some situations played out. I think I think it would’ve come to ahead that you probably would’ve lost Howie Roseman or Andy Reid at some point. Second not sure we get mahomes in Philly if reid stays. Love andy unless he is playing us, but i think (before this year) mahomes is so great and so good that he can mask some of the issues reid couldn’t overcome when mcnabb was here. Imo Reid is a top 5 coach of all time and best coach in eagles history, but he has his flaws. Prior to this year, i think mahomes’ greatness could cover a lot of those up. 

off topic a little, but this 2023 chiefs team reminds me a lot of the 2002 eagles team. Mcnabb (was good) in his prime so is mahomes (is definitely better). Both had really good defenses. I’d argue that was Reid’s best defense of his tenure. It was statistically. KC has a better TE but eagles had Lewis who was good and pro bowler that year.  Olines are both really good. running game with Pacheco that reminds me somewhat of Duce. The issue was the WRs caught up to the eagles when they got to the best of the best. Those KC WRs last night felt like i was watching thrash, pinkston and Mitchell. 

Sometimes its just time for business associates to part ways... and it can be good for both parties.  

Eagles have had success since then, and so it has been good for the Eagles.

Reid has brought the Chiefs back to prominence, so its been good for Reid. 

 

Everybody wins.

9 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Again a dope point with the dropped passes because guess what the Chiefs have done all year and lead the league in, dropped passes so it wasnt an anomaly last night 

This team is 9 1 and what 23-2 with Hurts starting, at some point you come off as hater and with a loser mentality.

 

This was Mahomes 5th WORST game in his career according to success rate.  When he faced Johnny Gannon he had his 3rd and 7th best games of his career, but yeah this team is soooooooooo terrible.

I can't remember a previous Thanksgiving where all three games were this important to the Eagles. May have to demand that we eat at 10 am and then everybody is out of the house by noon. Or, may have to simply disappear until midnight and deal with the consequences later on.

 

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's a very NCAA outlook, as I see it.  NCAA, there are benefits to teams in your conference doing well in bowl games, etc.   But, not so much in the NFL.   I get the logic of it... but I can't get behind it.   I look at teams in the same division as the Eagles about the same way that Ohio State fans look at Michigan (and vice versa).  I don't believe I've ever heard of an OSU fan pulling for Michigan... ever.  (and vice versa).  Your outlook almost aligns with the Service Academies.... I truly believe that Army and Navy actually pull for each other in every contest the other is involved in... except for one.  And then its all, "Go Army, Beat Navy", and vice versa.   But, even then, I don't think there's ever any true animosity like there is for UM and OSU.  There is literal hate for some folks on both sides of that one...  not so much (or even at all) with the Academies.

I can get behind what you are saying being a Marine myself...but I can't hate a team and fanbase, it's just not in me. I am competitive, but I can't hate a team or fanbase over a game.

19 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Sometimes its just time for business associates to part ways... and it can be good for both parties.  

Eagles have had success since then, and so it has been good for the Eagles.

Reid has brought the Chiefs back to prominence, so its been good for Reid. 

 

Everybody wins.

Don’t get me wrong i understood why they did it. I just wasn’t against bringing reid back if they chose to do so. But i also understood the reason it was likely time to move on. Like you said worked out for both parties. Frankly took the eagles and chiefs 5+ years from when it happened to see the best results. 

46 minutes ago, RLC said:

It would be nice if Jason/Stoutland could call good protections more often. They got a ton of free-rushers and we were routinely snapping at 1-2 seconds left, so the Chiefs' defenders could time the snap.

The good news is that we only have one more road game the rest of the year with this level of crowd noise (Seattle) and we don't face any power-rushers like Chris Jones. We handle speed-rushers better (Parsons, Bosa, Donald). 

There's a lot to unpack here. Spagnuolo had some clever blitzes dialed up on the first half. He ran games with the DL and delayed blitzers, particularly on Lane's side. Stout made adjustments and there were no sacks in the second half. None. Coaching. I'll try to put something together when the All-22 comes out.

There is a reason the Eagles consistently wait until 1-2 seconds are left on the play clock - with so little time, defenses have to show themselves. It gives Kelce and Hurts time to read the defense.

Kelce helped Dickerson more than he should have and Jurgens less than he should have, IMHO. When Jones gets a clean shoulder, it's over unless you have help.

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I think the league wants to disincentivize defenses from using penalties as strategy and discourage them from just doing it and hoping they get away with it. If it’s just a 5 yard penalty, you’d see defenses being more aggressive and grabby since the punishment if caught isn’t as severe. Now that it’s an automatic first down, the risk/reward favors the offense and pushes the advantage in their favor. That leads to more plays, points, offense etc which is what the league wants. 

I agree with you but the problem is the punishment outweighs the penalty.  The impact on the game is too significant and the inconsistency in officiating makes these calls seem unfair.  The NFL should likely re-think the definitions so that the emphasis is the impact the alleged penalty has on the play.  I think this is true for both sides of the ball.  Because refs are imperfect and the rules are imperctly written, refs should place the penalty into context. A 10 yard penalty for offensive holding is as much of a drive killer as an automatic first down is a drive saver. 

Offensive holding seems to be written to add emphasis to the impact of the conduct. It requires the offensive player to "materially restrict or alter the defender's path or angle of pursuit." https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-rulebook/#article-3-illegal-block-by-offensive-player   The problem, however, is the definition of "material restricion" The Rule states:

Use his hands or arms to materially restrict or alter the defender’s path or angle of pursuit. It is a foul regardless of whether the blocker’s hands are inside or outside the frame of the defender’s body. Material restrictions include but are not limited to:

1. grabbing or tackling an opponent;
2. hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or
3. pulling him to the ground.

It is too focused on the activities rather than the impact of the foul.  I think the rule would be better written as: "Use of his hands or arms to alter the defender's path or angle or pursuit...."  The rule makes material restriction unconnected to the impact and further seems to state that activities like turning a player with a legal block are actually holding.  It is a poorly written rule that makes the penalty too vague to be efficiently enforced.  

Defensive holding is seemingly clearer. The call for defensive holding does not have a pre-requisite of materially restricting or altering the receivers path. There is one component of defensive holding that seems strict liability and should always penalized.  Grabbing a receiver is holding.  The rule is: It is defensive holding if a player grasps an eligible offensive player (or his jersey) with his hands, or extends an arm or arms to cut off or encircle him. See 12-1-6. There is an allowance for "incidental" contact in the rules. I do think that allowance makes extending an arm or arms a normal football activity whereas grabbing a jersey is not.  Again the problem being, when is an extended arm on a route incidental versus really impacting the route.  The rule should specify that the arm extenstion alters the route.