8 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Ok. They also didn’t have those poor performances consecutively. They also had good performances like rams, Miami and first Dallas game. They weren’t completely inept. This started after the bye and got worse each week. 

The first Dallas game was NOT really a good defensive performance.   They had self-inflicted mistakes that cost them that game as much as the defense made any types of plays.  Rams and Miami were good.   But, Miami was also dealing with injuries and Waddle barely stepped on the field at all in that game.   They weren't facing the full Miami contingent offensively.

1 minute ago, goeagles5039 said:

Thinking about it don’t you think Patricia already has some influence on the defense? So it might not change things like we think?

While I don't expect a drastic change having influence on players and actually planning/calling plays are two completely different things.

2 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

The Eagles extended Michael Clay after having the worst special teams units I. The league. If they are replacing Desai then they must think he’s doing a terrible job 

This is gonna play itself out to whether desai was the major issue or the personnel was a bigger issue. They are gonna get maddox back, slay healthier and Cunningham hopefully healthier over couple weeks so they should have better ammunition against this teams. They are gonna run into Dallas/SF in the playoffs. If they look inept like they have the past 3 weeks and giving up 30+ then i think the bigger issue is gonna be looked as personnel. Patricia unlocks the defense and it’s able to get enough stops against teams like that then it’s gonna be all on desai. 

Problem is you can't change an entire new scheme this late in a season with all new plays etc. Might be able to add a play or two a week but not an entire scheme. 

Reminds me of when Todd Bowles replaced our joke of a DC mid season. He couldn't run his scheme that late and was let go as well end of season. I always felt they should have resigned Todd as DC for at least one year to set his defense. 

10 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

His wording isnt the way I’d have put it. I’m guessing his thought on this is more is Patricia as product that belichick in New England that made him look immensely better. cause his time with the lions without him wasn’t pretty. 

Well, that's a completely different story.   But, Patricia's history as a DC and HC in the league actually exceeds the TOTAL amount of time that Desai has been a coach in the NFL (in any role).

And if we are comparing resumes... how 'established' is Desai?  Certainly not nearly as 'established' as Patricia.

2 minutes ago, goeagles5039 said:

Thinking about it don’t you think Patricia already has some influence on the defense? So it might not change things like we think?

I tend to believe it's going to be like putting a Band-Aid on a broken leg, but I'm cool with them trying it out. My expectations are certainly in check. I know he was in Detroit for a few years, but my lasting impression is the defense he had in LII.

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

This is gonna play itself out to whether desai was the major issue or the personnel was a bigger issue. They are gonna get maddox back, slay healthier and Cunningham hopefully healthier over couple weeks so they should have better ammunition against this teams. They are gonna run into Dallas/SF in the playoffs. If they look inept like they have the past 3 weeks and giving up 30+ then i think the bigger issue is gonna be looked as personnel. Patricia unlocks the defense and it’s able to get enough stops against teams like that then it’s gonna be all on desai. 

The issues with this defense are largely situational, which is probably why they thought coaching was a big issue. This defense is good on 1st and 2nd down, but on 3rd downs they plummet to historic levels of awful and generally looked unprepared on what to do in those moments.

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

  SB contenders rarely find themselves needing to even consider something like this.  

That’s kinda my point. Someone or something went terribly wrong in whatever "process” was put in place for the 2023 season. Maybe optics wasn’t the best word for me to use? Just saying this is a terrible look for a team that’s supposed to be trying to win a SB. 

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The first Dallas game was NOT really a good defensive performance.   They had self-inflicted mistakes that cost them that game as much as the defense made any types of plays.  Rams and Miami were good.   But, Miami was also dealing with injuries and Waddle barely stepped on the field at all in that game.   They weren't facing the full Miami contingent offensively.

Was still good enough. No offense, I don’t think any defensive coordinator is going to get Dallas below 30 points with the personnel deficiencies the eagles have at Lb and slot corner with out a ton of help from the cowboys or flat out luck. We can say whatever we want. I don’t think Matt Patricia is the Fing savior. He wasn’t with the Lions. That’s why they hired him and they got worse defensively. And at the end of his New England tenure that was the worst defense dvoa New England had in about a decade.

8 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Or they wanted to make sure they could get a pencil at a moments notice.

Patricia’s pencil and Sirianni’s highlighter are going to clash on the sidelines 

Both our OC and DC picks sucked.

At least they realize they f'ed up the DC pick, let's hope Reich is on a plane and they fix OC as well.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Well, that's a completely different story.   But, Patricia's history as a DC and HC in the league actually exceeds the TOTAL amount of time that Desai has been a coach in the NFL (in any role).

And if we are comparing resumes... how 'established' is Desai?  Certainly not nearly as 'established' as Patricia.

Again, you’re arguing he has more experience. I’m not arguing that. I what I’m saying is sheil meant to say was that his time without Bill Belichick doesn’t bode well for him and the only experience he had as DC was in Ne where belichick was really the mastermind of that defense. I just think sheil Kapadia worded it poorly.

9 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

Yes I felt that way as well. Patricia was a late add since he was let go after the staff was hired. I would agree if Patricia was available when they were first selecting the new DC/OC they would have chosen him over Desai

Patricia was available. They interviewed him for DC before hiring Desai. Then it came out later they hired him as well. 

Hill is inactive today.  He better be good to go next week against Dallas!

2 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

Problem is you can't change an entire new scheme this late in a season with all new plays etc. Might be able to add a play or two a week but not an entire scheme. 

Reminds me of when Todd Bowles replaced our joke of a DC mid season. He couldn't run his scheme that late and was let go as well end of season. I always felt they should have resigned Todd as DC for at least one year to set his defense. 

Agreed on Bowles.   

 

I don't expect an entirely new scheme.  And they really don't need one.  What they need is a different style on 3rd down.   They really aren't bad on first and second, but when time comes to get off the field, they play some lame defenses and make it look easy to convert, even on 3rd and longs.  If they can just find a way to add some new wrinkles on 3rd downs and get stops every now and then... things would be a lot better.  Force punts or even FGs rather than letting yourself get walked down the field with impunity.

Just now, goeagles5039 said:

Thinking about it don’t you think Patricia already has some influence on the defense? So it might not change things like we think?

Hard to say, these "consultant roles” or however you want to call it create muddy waters. I’m sure Patricia put in his two cents but never wanted to be over vocal because it would cause issues and not look good on his part. If Patricia knew how green and clueless Desai was early on, you just sit back and wait for him to crap the bed so you’re next in line. Patricia could’ve seen this coming a mile away, he’s been in this league long enough to see how things work. 
 

If not for Miami, Vic Fangio was going to be our D Coordinator, who worked behind the scenes with Gannon, but was also more experienced than Gannon. Almost like what Patricia is doing now. Kind of ironic?
 

We shouldn’t have outsmarted ourselves in the coordinator hire process, BJ and Desai seem like hires that were done for us to show the league that we can find young talented coaches. But both have seemed to horribly backfire. This organization had two SB appearances with winning one of them by having "experienced” staff. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/11/27/coordinator-fired-midseason-nfl-data/

Data suggests that defenses get a bump when firing a DC.

td pats on 4th and1

tied at 7

8 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

The issues with this defense are largely situational, which is probably why they thought coaching was a big issue. This defense is good on 1st and 2nd down, but on 3rd downs they plummet to historic levels of awful and generally looked unprepared on what to do in those moments.

So if they are just as bad in playoffs against Dallas and SF, does that mean it’s on paltricia or personnel isn’t good enough? If you change a coordinator and have the same problem vs. Dallas and SF then at some point in time maybe it is your personnel isn’t good enough. I don’t give a crap if they fired desai. If patrica runs into the same problem in the playoffs against those better offenses, then at that point might be a bigger issue with your personnel. 

"Too much finger pointing”. Gee. Wonder who that could be? 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Again, you’re arguing he has more experience. I’m not arguing that. I what I’m saying is sheil meant to say was that his time without Bill Belichick doesn’t bode well for him and the only experience he had as DC was in Ne where belichick was really the mastermind of that defense. I just think sheil Kapadia worded it poorly.

Sheil's JOB is as a writer.  If he didn't mean experience, then he should have said so.  So, I am taking his post at its face.  

 

That said, if you want to say that he is a Belichick disciple and those rarely pan out... that's a fair criticism.  BUT, I counter with the question:  Who's disciple is Desai?  And how many of them have panned out across the league.  The answer seems to be Fangio, and Fangio isn't exactly at the top of the list of successful minds in terms of developing guys under him, nor is he currently lighting it up himself.  

Desai is relatively new to NFL coaching (starting in 2013), and relatively new to doing more than Defensive Quality Control (starting in 2019).   Give me a guy with a longer history when we see a guy with limited experience getting his head handed to him by experienced offensive minds.  I include the Washington games, where the Eagles D made Sam Howell look like a future HoF QB.  Bienemy had his number.  Shanahan made him look completely lost.  McCarthy also had him.   

 

This move is no guarantee for success... but there's a CHANCE.   With Desai, the outcome seemed inevitable... defense would find a way to give up 30+ to any team with even a remotely competent play caller/schemer.

 

27 minutes ago, RLC said:

The Bears fired their defensive coordinator this season, were laughed at, then immediately got better.

Caring about optics over performance is bad. 

This is caring about optics. Just fire him and get him out of the building. Whats the point to keep the title and have him sit in the broom closet? What if there are players who like him as a person and will side with him over Patricia? Just do a clean break if you don’t care about optics. 

8 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Was still good enough. No offense, I don’t think any defensive coordinator is going to get Dallas below 30 points with the personnel deficiencies the eagles have at Lb and slot corner with out a ton of help from the cowboys or flat out luck. We can say whatever we want. I don’t think Matt Patricia is the Fing savior. He wasn’t with the Lions. That’s why they hired him and they got worse defensively. And at the end of his New England tenure that was the worst defense dvoa New England had in about a decade.

No offense taken.  No one is saying Patricia is a savior.  The only thing anyone has said that I've seen (or at least what I am saying) is that he can offer NEW LOOKS on 3rd downs, where this team REALLY struggles.  And if you just tighten up 3rd downs a little, the offense has more of a chance to have a margin of error, punts happen a little more, or FGs in place of TDs.  

 

And if it blows up in the Eagles' faces... then so be it.   I'll tell you this:  Desai was overmatched.   He may SOMEDAY be a good DC.  He wasn't over the last month plus.  And, really wasn't for MOST games this season.  

45 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Whether the change was necessary or not, this is just terrible optics for a team supposedly competing for a SB. 

I don't think you can say they are SB contenders after the last couple weeks.  Those are the teams we will meet in the playoffs and they both killed us.  

If the defense plays better from here on out then I can't complain.  We'll see what happens.