December 15, 20204 yr 57 minutes ago, Toastrel said: How many innocent people are you okay with killing? It has been shown again and again that people have been cleared of charges. . .after they are dead. Sort of too late. A country that executes innocent people is NOT a country that can take the moral highground. Was there any question of the innocence of any of those 10 people executed in the last 5 months?
December 15, 20204 yr 8 minutes ago, xzmattzx said: Was there any question of the innocence of any of those 10 people executed in the last 5 months? I honestly don't know. I was 100% pro-death penalty until I read some of the stories of people executed and later proved to be innocent. Can't have that. That makes US murderers.
December 15, 20204 yr 5 minutes ago, Toastrel said: I honestly don't know. I was 100% pro-death penalty until I read some of the stories of people executed and later proved to be innocent. Can't have that. That makes US murderers. When were they sentenced? My point in all these questions is, is 10 executions in 5 months horrible, if the legal process got it right, and these people have been sitting on death row for years and years?
December 15, 20204 yr 1 minute ago, xzmattzx said: When were they sentenced? My point in all these questions is, is 10 executions in 5 months horrible, if the legal process got it right, and these people have been sitting on death row for years and years? Almost all executions are on death row for years prior. Your legal process has to be 100% in order to execute, otherwise you could be just committing another murder. By committee.
December 15, 20204 yr 8 minutes ago, mr_hunt said: 🤡🌎 if you know that person, you need to put a fur coat on them and send them into the PA gamelands. now.
December 15, 20204 yr 2 minutes ago, Toastrel said: Almost all executions are on death row for years prior. Your legal process has to be 100% in order to execute, otherwise you could be just committing another murder. By committee. That's understood. But you seem to have a problem with executions in general, which doesn't have a bearing on the frequency of the executions. Someone who is guilty of the crime is guilty whether they wait 5 years on death row, or 20 years on death row. How many Federal executions in the last 50 years have been on innocent people? I imagine the standards for Federal executions are much stricter than the states that still execute people, such as Texas.
December 15, 20204 yr 12 hours ago, xzmattzx said: Should they not have been executed? No. The death penalty, which in reality is simply murder by the state, should be abolished.
December 15, 20204 yr 3 minutes ago, xzmattzx said: That's understood. But you seem to have a problem with executions in general, which doesn't have a bearing on the frequency of the executions. Someone who is guilty of the crime is guilty whether they wait 5 years on death row, or 20 years on death row. How many Federal executions in the last 50 years have been on innocent people? I imagine the standards for Federal executions are much stricter than the states that still execute people, such as Texas. The stepped up frequency of executions under Trump, 10 or so, after 3 the previous few decades is weird.
December 15, 20204 yr 4 minutes ago, xzmattzx said: I imagine the standards for Federal executions are much stricter than the states that still execute people, such as Texas. This is the same government that intentionally lied about Covid, systematically tortured children, looked the other way when a journalist for an American newspaper was murdered by a foreign government, and ignored bounties placed on the heads of American troops by a foreign power. Their indifference to the sanctity of life is well established. They can't be trusted to properly preside over such matters.
December 15, 20204 yr 5 minutes ago, Toastrel said: The stepped up frequency of executions under Trump, 10 or so, after 3 the previous few decades is weird. How long were those people on death row, though? The frequency of the executions is not what would be troubling. What would be troubling would be performing the executions much sooner after sentencing than previously done. Timothy McVeigh was executed 6 years after his bombing. Have these people executed in the last 5 months been on death row for 5-10 years? Or have they only been on death row for 1-2 years?
December 15, 20204 yr 28 minutes ago, mr_hunt said: 🤡🌎 what makes me incredulous is that when this DOESN'T happen. when 2024 rolls around and we're still a capitalist leaning mixed economy with a comparatively modest social safety net - the same we have been for almost 60 years - they're STILL going to believe that if we don't vote Biden out we're going to get a communist takeover. these people are legitimately insane and need mental health interventions.
December 15, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, VanHammersly said: I don't think it makes you a bad person, I just feel differently about which I think is worse. Self imposed imprisonment isn't even remotely the same as forced imprisonment. The worst part of prison isn't the seclusion it's the lack of control over the seclusion. Look, I recognize that Bin Laden is a very specific case, because you have to think about what imprisoning him does to his cause around the world. In the end, you're likely delivering a greater blow to his cause by getting him out of the way then by allowing him to live, so I can see the importance of killing him, but he's a completely unique case. For the most part, we're talking about murderers, not leaders of global terror organizations. In their case, I don't think the benefit to killing them outweighs allowing them to live, for a number of reasons. Fair enough
December 15, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, xzmattzx said: How long were those people on death row, though? The frequency of the executions is not what would be troubling. What would be troubling would be performing the executions much sooner after sentencing than previously done. Timothy McVeigh was executed 6 years after his bombing. Have these people executed in the last 5 months been on death row for 5-10 years? Or have they only been on death row for 1-2 years? Quote Brandon Bernard was declared dead at 9:27 p.m. last night. He was killed just as planned, despite a national outcry to spare his life, making him the ninth person since July to be executed by the Trump administration. Before then, the federal government had not killed a person incarcerated on death row in 17 years, but Donald Trump has rushed ahead in an unprecedented, ghastly spree: He has four more executions planned before Joe Biden takes office. Bernard was 40 years old. Bernard was 18 when he was convicted in 1999 of the murder of Stacie and Todd Bagley, two youth ministers in Killeen, Texas. He was one of a group of five young men who car-jacked the Bagleys and drove around with them in the trunk before shooting the couple in the head and burning the car. The man who shot them, Christopher Vialva, was executed in September. Bernard set the fire. His lawyers argued that the prosecution withheld evidence that diminished his role in the crime; he was not a leader, they say, and had set the fire under fear for his life. Five of the sentencing jurors said they would not have sent Bernard to death had they known.
December 15, 20204 yr 5 minutes ago, Toastrel said: Yea that's F'ed up. If he didn't kill them, he definitely shouldn't have been executed.
December 15, 20204 yr 2 hours ago, VanHammersly said: But Biden Laden got a shot to the head and he was done. That's not the worst way to go. It's getting off pretty easy honestly, considering what he did. If I were him, I'd take that all day over sitting alone in a cell for decades.
December 15, 20204 yr Just now, paco said: You know, Obama Biden Laden, the world's most notorious terrorist.
December 15, 20204 yr 40 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: You know, Obama Biden Laden, the world's most notorious terrorist. Don't give out any ideas. I fully expect Biden Laden to be trending on Twitter. I already saw my wife's crazy aunt post that Biden was joining the Muslim Brotherhood.
December 17, 20204 yr Saw this last week and will be interesting if gains traction Newsweek: Veterans Call on Dan Crenshaw to Resign for Alleged Role in Disparaging Female Vet At least two veterans groups, along with more than a thousand individual former service members and Department of Defense civilians, have called for the resignation of Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-Texas) over his alleged role in helping a top Trump administration official collect discrediting information about a female veteran who said she was sexually assaulted. . https://www.newsweek.com/veterans-call-dan-crenshaw-resign-alleged-role-disparaging-female-vet-1555309
December 17, 20204 yr I was at a restaurant last night and they had Fox News on. Even without the sound on and just seeing the headlines it was ridiculous. It is the worst of all the propaganda networks. They put a story up that a Biden staffer used an obscenity toward the GOP. Anyone who defended Trump has absolutely not business getting worked up over the words of someone else. 4-5 years of excusing Trump's behavior, sorry you don't get to criticize someone else's mean words. Just ridiculous.
December 17, 20204 yr 2 minutes ago, NOTW said: I was at a restaurant last night and they had Fox News on. Even without the sound on and just seeing the headlines it was ridiculous. It is the worst of all the propaganda networks. They put a story up that a Biden staffer used an obscenity toward the GOP. Anyone who defended Trump has absolutely not business getting worked up over the words of someone else. 4-5 years of excusing Trump's behavior, sorry you don't get to criticize someone else's mean words. Just ridiculous. Just remember, Trumpbots turned on Fox News for not being extreme enough.
December 17, 20204 yr 4 minutes ago, Gannan said: Just remember, Trumpbots turned on Fox News for not being extreme enough. Yes these are really bizarre times.
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