20 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

Lanes replacement - RAW Day 3 pick with great athleticism.

Stout is great at doing things like turning massive rugby player in the 7th round into star LT.

Have him do that again.   Stout,  being great at turning day 3 picks into stars,  does not need a day 1 or 2 pick to replace a player who doesn't look like he's at all ready to go. 

The Eagles can just bring in great athletes who need better coaching on day 3 or udfa.     Steen should be RG.  If that works - and it should - the Eagles should have the same OL this year, next year,  the year after and then maybe Lane is retiring,  but maybe not. 

If Lane does retire,  guess what,  the Eagles could,  then,  use a 1st round pick on a OL.  Instead of drafting a 1st round OT and have him wait around years to play.

Who is WR3?

5th round - Tylan Grable - OT.  9.85 RAS.  There's the Lane replace.

1/4 inch shorter than Lane.  3 pounds heavier than Lane.  Was HS QB like Lane.  Then became TE like Lane,  then OT like Lane.   And,  5th round.  Not like Lane.

Big fan of Grable.

Think he winds up being an above-average starter somewhere. Also has that G-T versatility which is enticing.

I'm onboard with him in the late RDs.

But I've prepared myself and accepted Howie won't be able to resist OT in RD1.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Meanwhile, the idea that McKee's development should stand in the way of bringing in a better backup confounds me

It doesn't stand in the way in a vacuum. But when in conjunction with giving up the equivalent of a 4th rd pick, then it makes me wonder if that could've been better spent elsewhere. 

I think people are simply way too high on McKee based on preseason action. Dorian Thompson-Robinson looked great in the preseason and had to start in the regular season and was dreadful. Now they have Jameis. 

I think we need to trust the Eagles on this. They have all the important information at their disposal, and we know they value backup QB as much as anyone in the league. 

Just now, ManuManu said:

I think people are simply way too high on McKee based on preseason action. Dorian Thompson-Robinson looked great in the preseason and had to start in the regular season and was dreadful. Now they have Jameis. 

I think we need to trust the Eagles on this. They have all the important information at their disposal, and we know they value backup QB as much as anyone in the league. 

Conversely, people seem to be simply way too high on Pickett because of where he was drafted. 

As for trusting the Eagles, that's a bit tough considering they brought in Mariota for this same position last year, and also went into the season with clearly deficient talent at LB and DB. And no, I don't say that with the benefit of hindsight, I was trying to tell anyone that would listen all offseason that we were gonna have issues on defense because of that.

A good #2 QB is well worth moving from 98 to 120 and giving a couple of 7th round picks.  I like Tanner McKee in that he comes off as a very mature young man, but none of us have seen anything from him as an NFL QB where we should be holding a roster spot for him.

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Conversely, people seem to be simply way too high on Pickett because of where he was drafted. 

As for trusting the Eagles, that's a bit tough considering they brought in Mariota for this same position last year, and also went into the season with clearly deficient talent at LB and DB. And no, I don't say that with the benefit of hindsight, I was trying to tell anyone that would listen all offseason that we were gonna have issues on defense because of that.

The Eagles certainly aren’t perfect, but the point is the Eagles got a long look at McKee, seeing him in camp, preseason, in-season practice and determined he wasn’t ready yet. The Eagles no doubt are relying on their pre-draft evaluation as a big part of this projection. 

Not for nothing, but Weidl is in Pittsburgh. That relationship might have gotten Howie some good intel on Pickett’s problems. 

15 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I think people are simply way too high on McKee based on preseason action. Dorian Thompson-Robinson looked great in the preseason and had to start in the regular season and was dreadful. Now they have Jameis. 

I think we need to trust the Eagles on this. They have all the important information at their disposal, and we know they value backup QB as much as anyone in the league. 

In the end it's about 5mil in the bank they didn't blow on a backup QB and that's each of the next 2 years really.  Quite frankly even if McKee is great then it's still true and it cost you 20 slots to have insurance

3 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

In the end it's about 5mil in the bank they didn't blow on a backup QB and that's each of the next 2 years really.  Quite frankly even if McKee is great then it's still true and it cost you 20 slots to have insurance

Yep. And then we have a cheap backup in McKee three years from now. Or we potentially trade Pickett if he plays well in spot duty. 

1 hour ago, Random Reglar said:

The Eagles went 10-1.

Then the 2 WRs 1 TE and 1 QB all got hurt.

Lost a few games because of that.

Best player,  AJ Brown, was out of the playoff game.   and the Eagles lost.

Apparently,  recognizing that Best Player Is Not Playing is not within the skill set of the Eagles fans.

The Eagles need either 1) more WRs in order to give the 2 good/great WRs rest so they won't be hurt / worn out for the playoffs or 2) give those versatile freakbeasts snaps on offense so the WRs won't be hurt / worn out for the playoffs.

Eagles fans can't even notice the most basic problems.  AJ BROWN - BEST PLAYER - NOT IN THE PLAYOFF GAME.

The Eagles WR Duo - Brown and Smith - led the NFL in WR Duo snaps which directly resulted in fatigue and injury which directly led to losses at the end of the season. 

Don't forget the Eagles fans being so bad that multiple players pointed out the terribleness of the fans.   Slay - happy we're on the road for the playoff game, nice to not have home field disadvantage.  Brown - explaining the awfulness mechanism -  media is full garbage and the stupid fans believe everything they hear.   I like Slay and Brown more than I did 6 months ago.  They're telling the truth.

 

Feel free to make like a tree and get outta here.

36 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I think people are simply way too high on McKee based on preseason action. Dorian Thompson-Robinson looked great in the preseason and had to start in the regular season and was dreadful. Now they have Jameis. 

I think we need to trust the Eagles on this. They have all the important information at their disposal, and we know they value backup QB as much as anyone in the league. 

I trust them on their evaluation of McKee. I don't on their evaluation of Pickett. I know what my eyes tell me, the guy is bad. Maybe he won't be bad with the Eagles. I never thought he was that talented in the first place though. He wasn't a first round QB who was only taken there because teams get weird and desperate when it comes to QBs. I know those 20 picks the Eagles dropped in the draft is going to be excruciating waiting those out.

29 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Conversely, people seem to be simply way too high on Pickett because of where he was drafted. 

As for trusting the Eagles, that's a bit tough considering they brought in Mariota for this same position last year, and also went into the season with clearly deficient talent at LB and DB. And no, I don't say that with the benefit of hindsight, I was trying to tell anyone that would listen all offseason that we were gonna have issues on defense because of that.

Was just going to mention this. Don't know why people are using that as some sort of positive argument for him. It really just points out how he's a bust relative to his draft position

A first round draft pick is going to battle it out for the backup position after being in the league for 2 years. That's not a selling point

People bring up Steelers being a mess of an organization. Chargers are a freaking mess and yet Herbert was putting up stats

Anyway, though, if they are saving money on backup QB then they can do something cool like go out and sign Justin Simmons, keep Haason Reddick, or go out and trade for Lattimore or Jaycee Horn or something. That would make me feel a lot better about it.

1 hour ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Do you feel positional competence is a relevant consideration when asking a player to do something they haven’t done before? Or is that not really of value

what do you mean,  specifically?

"haven't done before"
high school counts.

A fact of the football world is that a lot of football players play multiple positions in high school.  They play well at both positions they play.  But, almost always,  they play only 1 position in college.  I believe that those players have the positional competence to play multiple positions.

Specifically.  VanSumeren was a Fullback for the Michigan Wolverines.  He has the full amount of positional competence needed.  

Give me Versatile Freakbeasts.    Versatile,  meaning the ability to play multiple positions.  Freakbeasts meaning,  super high RAS,  or,  even better,  super high sparq,  but sparq disappeared from the internet. 

Coach Em Up.

Maybe teams don't do that now,  teaching players to play better is just not a thing now.  Collective bargaining means that there are no more practices.  Maybe.  I don't know. 

You might have noticed that I've been putting youtube video and hudl video of players doing exactly what I want them to do with the Eagles.  Proving their positional competence. 

Since you asked for it,  here's VanSumeren doing catching, running, blocking and throwing in high school. 

http://www.hudl.com/v/2Hpkwm

That's a VanSumeren hudl,   it starts with graphics saying what he thought he was.  WR/ATH.  The video,  Junior season highlights,  starts with VanSumeren taking a snap from the shotgun,  much like Hurts does,  and runs outside for a nice gain.  So,  I look at that,  and I see "positional competence".   I also look for "general competence"  and wonderlic is good for that,  but we can't see those numbers,  so I make note of various scholastic achievements.   In VanSumerens case,  I note that he got offers from Harvard and Yale, so he's smart,  and has good marks for "general competence".

I understand that many people are angered because the NFL is not quite as dull and generic as they want it to be.  I want less dull and less generic.

I look for the best athletes,  who can do the most stuff,  who cost the least.  Others seem to just repeat what they see on TV or maybe sports talk radio.  Those shows are just the same basic stuff for the same basic people who aren't doing anything close to research with any point to it.  

I had VanSumeren on my day 3 of the draft udfa list.   Nobody else had one of those (ok, maybe a couple),  and they did take VanSumeren, and I was pleased,  and eventually he got a start and was the best ILB on the Eagles last year.  Best PFF at ILB.  Most Eagles fans don't know who he is,  and want someone else,  someone more expensive and more famous.    I turned in a different day 3 udfa wish list to the Ravens.   I had Keaton Mitchell on that,  the Ravens took him,  I was pleased,  and he ended up with a 92 before getting hurt.

I'm pretty confident that I'm just flat out good at this,  and I see little evidence that anyone else is even trying to do this,  trying to find players who are cheap yet versatile and great athletes.  The top argument here is "because Howie fills future needs on the OL sometimes,  Howie will always dedicate top resources to the OL for largely theoretical future needs on the OL".    An equally good argument is that Howie will draft the largest overseas rugby player he can find in the 7th round,  because he did that,  and it worked extremely well.

 

2 hours ago, ManuManu said:

@HazletonEagle

BigEFly is happy to hear this. Glad Howie is reading my posts about Rice.

@Iggles_Phan this is my Justin Jefferson pick this year.  

Here’s the QB’s who lasted two years before their drafted team shipped them out for nothing 

Kenny Pickett, Brandon Weeden, Johnny Manziel, Paxton Lynch, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins, Trey Lance.

What a luxurious list to be on. 

13 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

I'm pretty confident that I'm just flat out good at this, 

 

56 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I think people are simply way too high on McKee based on preseason action. Dorian Thompson-Robinson looked great in the preseason and had to start in the regular season and was dreadful. Now they have Jameis. 

I think we need to trust the Eagles on this. They have all the important information at their disposal, and we know they value backup QB as much as anyone in the league. 

Thompson-Robinson hadn’t been playing with the starters. One week of prep.  Don’t write him off just yet.  I like him as the third QB but he was gone so McKee became the next player at QB and I liked McKee but thought Thompson-Robinson was a better scheme fit.

16 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Thompson-Robinson hadn’t been playing with the starters. One week of prep.  Don’t write him off just yet.  I like him as the third QB but he was gone so McKee became the next player at QB and I liked McKee but thought Thompson-Robinson was a better scheme fit.

I’m not writing him off, but the Browns have for 2024. 

5 hours ago, devpool said:

There's no way they use 2 of their first 3 picks at OL, it would be unjustifiable and a gross misuse of assets when both of those players would be backups for at least 2 years unless they've already given up on Steen and don't think Hennessy can start.

The only way they can justify an OL pick in the first is a guy who is, right now, a better G than steen and Hennessy and can slide to RT and dominate when lane retires in a couple of years. 

There's a better chance they pick a guard with the later 2nd but that would still be stupid.

This team loves the OL but not that much, and if they were to do any of what is in your post then Howie should be fired.

I wouldn't personally go there, but this is Howie Lurie logic. if they see a C/G there in the 2nd round that they love, they will take them. Same as DT.  The team is built with the trenches philosophy "you can't have enough depth" and there are questions over Steen and Jurgens.  I don't see them taking a lower round flyer on OL.  They just don't do it any more. It's about athletic profile etc that are generally available higher up in the draft.

CB isn't a position I see being taken unless someone truly drops and even then, doubtful. Year 2 for Ringo,Rodgers/McPhearson at NCB with  CGJ. They don't value other positions to take them that high.

My approach would be more a lot more fluid, but that is my approach. I wouldn't have taken Steen last year, but the team did.

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

VanSumeren is very athletic and very raw, rotated between FB and LB in college. He's good downhill, but instincts and pass coverage are real question marks. ILBs have to be able to read and react, not bite on play action, know which gap to fill, time their A gap blitzes, etc.

Kind of player you wouldn't consider starting right now, STs, and backup, but if he continues to make progress could push for a job next season.

Much of your analysis sounds ok.

However,  VanSumeren had only 1 game as a starter, it was during the "collapse" and it was the only WIN the Eagles had during the "collapse".

So,  he's physically great,  and, "Coach Him Up".

Those other players,  despite being more experiened,  did not do as well as the UDFA rookie who was, and is,  in the process of learning ILB. 

So,  I'm penciling in Dean with the green dot,  VanSumeren - in pencil - at the other starting spot,  getting him lots and lots of reps in the preseason to get him up to speed as quickly as possible,   and confident that Devon White can step in if VanSumeren falters.
 

Sometimes there are just ideas that are too impossible for some people to understand.   If you can get above average production from a cost controlled position for years,  low money cost,  didn't have to use a draft pick,  that's really really great.  You want that.   But,  Eagles fans seem to prefer famous players who the TV talks about,  and Eagles fans are the biggest whiners in the NFL,  so bad that multiple Eagles players feel the need to point that fact out.   Howie needs to race to fill the roster with players, immediately,  before Eagles fans would scream and cry.   "These players are like a lump of coal on Christmas, why didn't Santa do a better job of getting me what I wanted."  And there was a discussion here this week about Christmas, Santa and Coal in reference to free agency.  I'm not making that up.

37 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I trust them on their evaluation of McKee. I don't on their evaluation of Pickett. I know what my eyes tell me, the guy is bad. Maybe he won't be bad with the Eagles. I never thought he was that talented in the first place though. He wasn't a first round QB who was only taken there because teams get weird and desperate when it comes to QBs. I know those 20 picks the Eagles dropped in the draft is going to be excruciating waiting those out.

Fair. 

2 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Dont forget they were holding back to play possum and surprise teams in the playoffs 

And then - AJ Brown got hurt.

I'm weirdly optimistic about the Pickett trade. I think the Eagles are viewing this as the Minshew trade 2.0. Not an unreasonable bar for him to clear, but not easy.

Also, I think there's actually some upside with Pickett. People saw an old, white QB prospect and assumed he would come into the league as a super polished pocket passer. Pickett wasn't that at all. Giving him the worst OC in the league, decent at best receiving options, and a plodding RB to work with was malpractice. Now, he comes into an initially low pressure situation with an all-star offense and the best OC he's never had. All he has to do is put his head down, get better, and be an asset in the QB room. The talent is there.

Some of the comments from Steelers fans on this are funny. Not the smartest

 

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

I would disagree

we all know he needs those snaps to have much of any chance

I had no idea why the Eagles drafted him in the first place,  but it isn't uncommon for teams to draft on day 3 a QB3 project.  Those QB3 projects rarely actually do anything.  So,  things are going the way they typically do.  McKee is tall, and a lot of NFL teams like tall QBs.  So there is that.