Just now, eagle45 said:

He wasn’t an option, but it also shows the value of backup QBs.

They typically get good money. A decent one isn't cheap. Which is why im not upset about the Pickett move.

2 hours ago, greendestiny27 said:

20 was the outlier. And Dawk is 6', Brown  is 5'10"

He’s 7 pounds heavier than Malcolm Jenkins and 25 pounds heavier than Rodney McCloud. He’s the same height and 9 pounds heavier than Earl Thomas.

’m not saying he’s the next Dawkins. I am saying that his height and weight are right in line with any number of accomplished safeties and rejecting him on that basis is absurd.

3 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

I think it’s a little Bears doing damage control but I don’t think Fields would have the right mindset to be a backup anyway.

Sounded like the representation was the source the way it was written 

3 minutes ago, just relax said:

He’s 7 pounds heavier than Malcolm Jenkins and 25 pounds heavier than Rodney McCloud. He’s the same height and 9 pounds heavier than Earl Thomas.

’m not saying he’s the next Dawkins. I am saying that his height and weight are right in line with any number of accomplished safeties and rejecting him on that basis is absurd.

Safeties aren't exactly big anymore. Used to have the bigger box safeties but these archetypes get exposed now.

18 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

There’s only so much they can do in one offseason, IMO.  The defense ranked 30th in scoring this year, only ahead of Arizona and Washington.  And Washington sold off their defense before the trading deadline.

The Eagles had the 7th ranked scoring offense.  Arizona was 24, Washington 25.  Of all the top 10 offenses (besides ours), Miami was the only one with a bottom half defense (22, and, ironically, run by our new DC).  The Eagles had the 5th most first downs in the NFL on offense.  Every other offense in the top 5 with first downs had a defense that was top 10.

What am I getting at with the offense stats?  A good offense that scores points and churns 1st downs makes life a lot easier on the defense.  We had the 3rd worst scoring defense in the league even with a good offense.  One of the 2 inferior defenses sold off its players.  And neither had anywhere near the offense the Eagles did to control the ball and generate leads.

This defense was worse than the worst.  There is a very valid argument to make that it was the NFL’s worst defense.

It’s not realistically possible to just become a high end defense in one offseason.

Two years ago Eagles were top 10, while Bradberry fell off, and they missed Edwards and Hargrave, but added Carter, it wasn't like that defense had much better personnel.

Fangio had turned around 3 defenses over 11 seasons, it may take two years, but he can do that here.

Most of the problems last year were coaching, not personnel, the talent dropoff should have had them in the middle of the pack. Look at how Barnett revived away from Philly.

The only major loss this offseason was Cox, and he was no longer a top DT last year. You gonna miss Murrow, Cunningham, Byard, etc.?

So it's not unreasonable to think Fangio can get them to "average" this season.

34 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

Howie very rarely misleads the market and is ahead of the curve with the draft and appropriate compensations in trades. I.E. See post Carson Wentz debacle and check how he flipped everything here pretty fast. Pickett was the best deal out there for backup QB. When we sign that extra player the next 2 seasons due to saved salary cap space, I am going to thank him for it. He will at worst, get a compensatory pick out of this. That's Howie do!

24 minutes ago, just relax said:

He’s 7 pounds heavier than Malcolm Jenkins and 25 pounds heavier than Rodney McCloud. He’s the same height and 9 pounds heavier than Earl Thomas.

’m not saying he’s the next Dawkins. I am saying that his height and weight are right in line with any number of accomplished safeties and rejecting him on that basis is absurd.

He wasn't a great tackler in college either, not sure the reasoning then, but he continued that trend in the NFL. 

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I assume you are referring to his 1972 record of 27 wins for a 59 win team?    I'm not sure exactly what the counter is?  His 27 wins are more impressive than nearly every other 29 win team, but what is the point of bringing up Carlton?   My proposal of team record when such and such starts the game would be just as apropos.  He was absolutely phenomenal that year, and I wish I had been around to see it.  

You brought up the Doc analogy…i thought the whole convo was just silly.  Obviously W/L isn’t everything and isn’t 100% dependent on 1 person, but that 1 person in this case is the most responsible for that record.

3 hours ago, Wentz_Era said:

Catching up on this whole discussion and while i agree to an extent…it’s not crazy to use W/L as a barometer at times for the most important position on a team.

I raise you Steve Carlton as a counter…

It's crazy to only use W/L as a barometer for the most important position on a team. If you have to pick a single metric to evaluate a QB's performance, there are far better ones to use.

There is no advanced calculus behind backup QB.  The SB champion Chiefs were paying Blaine Gabbert $1m to be their backup.  They don't even have a backup right now.  Cooper Rush was a little over 2 last year.  Sam Darnold with SF last year was 4.5.  Those are just some random examples courtesy of google.  If you exclude benched former starters, I'm sure there are backups around the league that are more and less than that, but it's a ballpark of what those teams are investing.

The Eagles signed Mariota for 5 last year and this year Pickett will cost them about $2m plus some draft capital.

They obviously choose to invest in the backup QB position more than some other teams.  Maybe it's wise, maybe it's too much.  Debate away at that...but the Eagles invest more than the going rate into the position.

 

35 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Two years ago Eagles were top 10, while Bradberry fell off, and they missed Edwards and Hargrave, but added Carter, it wasn't like that defense had much better personnel.

Fangio had turned around 3 defenses over 11 seasons, it may take two years, but he can do that here.

Most of the problems last year were coaching, not personnel, the talent dropoff should have had them in the middle of the pack. Look at how Barnett revived away from Philly.

The only major loss this offseason was Cox, and he was no longer a top DT last year. You gonna miss Murrow, Cunningham, Byard, etc.?

So it's not unreasonable to think Fangio can get them to "average" this season.

I think it's a reasonable goal to climb to average this season.  They had some extracurricular stuff going on with the team last year, whatever it may have been.  

They can't just easily fall into average though...they have to climb to that and it will take some work.  But it's reasonable to hope that Carter's improvement more than offsets the loss of Cox.  I don't know how much Davis is going to do for them beyond eat some snaps and stop the run.  That's probably just going to be who he is.  The edge rotation should be deeper and more disruptive this year.  Safety play should be better with CJGJ stabilizing some sort of Blankenship/Brown platoon.  

Morrow, Cunningham, Byard were really just replacement level guys.  The real loss will probably be the further decline in Slay's play.  We figure to get very, very bad CB play next year.

Throw that all together and we may get an average defense out of it.  The question is where we go from there.  Fangio is sort of a specialist at cranking out average defenses.  Right now, that's going to be great for us.  

Knowing Howie I do think his salary played a factor, but they offered Flacco a contract and probably tried to get Fields who cost way more. Knowing Howie, I think the real motivations behind the Pickett trade are:

1) Howie values their draft scouting report of Pickett above what he actually showed on the field. We see it in sports every year. Some guy is drafted, clearly sucks, some GM out there thinks they can fix him because they evaluated him highly some years prior.

2) Howie thinks he can flip him for more at a further date.

On offense, my interest in Barkley seems to be a bit different from everyone else.  I don't care that we have a big back.  A 3-down back.  A RB that you want to pound the ball with in volume.  I think all of those things are overrated.

This offense doesn't really have someone that you can scheme the ball to in space underneath who can make something of it.  And with all due respect to AJ Brown and Devonta, who are outstanding WRs, neither is really a reverse, jet sweep, weapon with the ball in their hands kind of guy.  

I'm more interested in Barkley as a moveable weapon and chess piece, less interested in him as a 20 carry back.  Less 1990's running back, more weapon.  That's going to do more for this offense than simply marginally upgrading in the pure between the tackles running over Swift.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

On offense, my interest in Barkley seems to be a bit different from everyone else.  I don't care that we have a big back.  A 3-down back.  A RB that you want to pound the ball with in volume.  I think all of those things are overrated.

This offense doesn't really have someone that you can scheme the ball to in space underneath who can make something of it.  And with all due respect to AJ Brown and Devonta, who are outstanding WRs, neither is really a reverse, jet sweep, weapon with the ball in their hands kind of guy.  

I'm more interested in Barkley as a moveable weapon and chess piece, less interested in him as a 20 carry back.  Less 1990's running back, more weapon.  That's going to do more for this offense than simply marginally upgrading in the pure between the tackles running over Swift.

I want a guy who can kill the clock in the 4th qtr when the other team knows you are going to run

15 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

It's crazy to only use W/L as a barometer for the most important position on a team. If you have to pick a single metric to evaluate a QB's performance, there are far better ones to use.

It’s probably the best overall ‘snapshot’…but yes, there’s plenty of other metrics to combine and judge.  

4 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Knowing Howie I do think his salary played a factor, but they offered Flacco a contract and probably tried to get Fields who cost way more. Knowing Howie, I think the real motivations behind the Pickett trade are:

1) Howie values their draft scouting report of Pickett above what he actually showed on the field. We see it in sports every year. Some guy is drafted, clearly sucks, some GM out there thinks they can fix him because they evaluated him highly some years prior.

2) Howie thinks he can flip him for more at a further date.

Pickett isn't getting flipped for more and I'm pretty sure even Howie knows that.  He has established himself as a backup QB now.  He'll be a 27 year old backup QB heading into his 2nd season in Philly.  Year over year for the last several years, Howie has not been willing to go into a season without a backup QB that has starter experience in the NFL.  That's a priority for him and he's willing to pay a bit of a premium to have it.

8 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

It’s probably the best overall ‘snapshot’…but yes, there’s plenty of other metrics to combine and judge.  

Best? It's not even in my top 5. Passer rating, QBR, pts per drive, TD/INT ratio, yds per att, etc.

A good QB on a team with a bad defense will have a W/L record comparable to a bad QB on a team with a good defense. But a bad QB won't be able to fake his way into that same comparison with any of those other stats.

 

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

That’s got to set market for Boyd. I’d do that deal but maybe they are set on drafting a guy

5 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

I think you could get Shenault for cheaper.  Very similar career numbers and also provides KR ability, and even the occasional carry out of the backfield.  The Eagles won’t do it, but as a cheap WR3 option he’d be decent.

55 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

It's crazy to only use W/L as a barometer for the most important position on a team. If you have to pick a single metric to evaluate a QB's performance, there are far better ones to use.

Yep.  I think Ras or 40 time are far more revealing.

6 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I think you could get Shenault for cheaper.  Very similar career numbers and also provides KR ability, and even the occasional carry out of the backfield.  The Eagles won’t do it, but as a cheap WR3 option he’d be decent.

Definitely would rather have Shenault over Quez

40 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

Wouldve been a much, much better get than Parker

34 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Wouldve been a much, much better get than Parker

Isn't Parker like a guaranteed $1 million with NE picking up the rest of the tab? Just seems like a kicking the tires type signing.