1 hour ago, Texas Eagle said:

If Reddick goes on to continue being a sack leader in the NFL then is far, far worse than then Avery trade. Trading for Avery didn’t subtract a ton from us - he just didn’t add anything. We lost the pick but how many of our 3rd round picks every turn out? Reddick being a 10+ sack guy the next 3 years will be a dickkick

If Huff and Sweat each put up double-digit sack seasons, what have the Eagles given up, other than more age and salary?

3 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

If Huff and Sweat each put up double-digit sack seasons, what have the Eagles given up, other than more age and salary?

Honestly none of that even matters so long as the defense gets itself off the field. I don't think you can measure the moves as accurately as individual performances as opposed to the team's performance (defense in this case).

I was hitting eagles positions and missed out on secondary. We need more picks.

It depends, you can always use more pass rushers. Even if Huff and Sweat play well, if Nolan Smith and Graham are terrible and the Eagles have no depth, can always say the team could have used Reddick and used Huff in the first year in his Jets role that he's already used to. Play 45-50% of snaps. Plus people wanted the Eagles to cut down on the amount of snaps the starters played anyway, keeping Reddick could've helped with that. I don't think Graham has much left, and Nolan Smith could be good, but that's a total projection. If he doesn't take a step up in year 2 he's virtually unplayable. So if you get the bad end of both of those scenarios then it's basically Sweat, Huff, and not much else from an edge perspective.

4 hours ago, ManuManu said:

I don’t agree with the bolded premise. Howie simply didn’t want to pay Reddick market value on an extension that would kick in at age 31 and he became relatively expendable by signing a younger player in Huff and drafting Smith. 

If Reddick didn’t demand more money with an extension, he’d very likely be an Eagle. 

Correct.  Reddick asked for more money, because he came on a low ball offer and clearly exceeded expectations in the first two years.   Meanwhile, he cost about $11M combined for those two seasons.  So, it feels like it would have been expensive to give him more money.  But, it really wouldn't.  He got roughly $15M/year for his time, which puts him around the 20th or so highest paid EDGE player.  He was more like a top 5... which is worth roughly an additional $10M/year more.  Giving him that money now, while he has a cap hit of $20M+ and $15M dead coming in 2025 makes it feel much worse.    Had they done it after the season last year... and had his cap hits been more in line with his cash value... roughly $9M and $12M in cap... (That's $5M more than it actually was...). Then a little more money wouldn't have been so noticeable.    But, this is how Howie does it.  He pushes the cap hits into the future, more WAY WAY MORE than any other GM in the NFL.   It has benefits, but it has consequences too.  And we just saw one.   There's no one that can say with a straight face that this trade made the team better for 2024... even with the signing of Huff factored in.   We hope Huff can be what Reddick has been while here.  And we hope the $14M this move freed up for 2025 will help fix the weaker talent on the field.  We'll see if t does.  But the draft pick won't pay off until around 2027, if at all.

I don't see how anyone can say any player on this defense in 2023 was underpaid. They all were abysmal and contributed to a historic collapse. Reddick included. I will say Reddick was underpaid in 2022. And was slightly overpaid last year (based on graphic below and being 14th highest paid at edge).  Which comes to about even for his 2 years here. And going into his age 30 season will be fairly paid for the $15M. He's trying to get the bag with whoever will listen... and Eagles were not one of 'em. 

22 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

If Huff and Sweat each put up double-digit sack seasons, what have the Eagles given up, other than more age and salary?

Sweat has only ever done it once... in 6 seasons.   I won't be holding my breath for that.  It would be amazing if both Huff and Sweat manage to hit double digit sacks this year.   Meanwhile, I think its extremely likely for Reddick to get 12+ sacks... but miss the snap count stipulation for the conditions of the trade to be met for the pick to elevate.

3 minutes ago, jojodancer said:

I don't see how anyone can say any player on this defense in 2023 was underpaid. They all were abysmal and contributed to a historic collapse. Reddick included. I will say Reddick was underpaid in 2022. And was slightly overpaid last year (based on graphic below and being 14th highest paid at edge).  Which comes to about even for his 2 years here. And going into his age 30 season will be fairly paid for the $15M. He's trying to get the bag with whoever will listen... and Eagles were not one of 'em. 

I pointed it out yesterday and will repeat it.  Only Reddick and Myles Garrett hit 10+ sacks over the last 4 seasons.   Watt has been outstanding but was injured in 2022, so he missed that level.  Same with Bosa.  Parsons has 3 straight years of 10 plus, for all 3 years he's been in the league.  

23 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

It depends, you can always use more pass rushers. Even if Huff and Sweat play well, if Nolan Smith and Graham are terrible and the Eagles have no depth, can always say the team could have used Reddick and used Huff in the first year in his Jets role that he's already used to. Play 45-50% of snaps. Plus people wanted the Eagles to cut down on the amount of snaps the starters played anyway, keeping Reddick could've helped with that. I don't think Graham has much left, and Nolan Smith could be good, but that's a total projection. If he doesn't take a step up in year 2 he's virtually unplayable. So if you get the bad end of both of those scenarios then it's basically Sweat, Huff, and not much else from an edge perspective.

I think you are underestimating about how unhappy Reddick got here. Already was squawking about his contract after first season. He wanted out and wants max dollars on his next contract. Wasn't happening here, regardless. He would be toxic in 2024 in his contract year playing less snaps, which would happen with Huff & Smith here and Fangio's vision for him. His career is trending down, about where Bryce Huff was about in his career track last year in New York last year as a rotational edge guy playing very few run snaps. And I presume that is how Jets will use him this year. Same as Huff last year in New York. I doubt they give him any extension. So essentially he screwed himself over by not being a good soldier here and most likely getting no more snaps in NY than he would here in 2024. Reddick made up his mind to leave here. There's nothing to talk about. He wanted out and wanted to control his destiny. Even if it's at a fault and dumb.

Reddick made a mention of it after one season, where he led the league in sacks... and was a complete professional last year.   What makes you say he'sgoing to be toxic?  When has he ever been toxic?  Give me an example of it.  I'd be happy to be educated.

1 hour ago, T-1000 said:

Yep. A few people on this board got way too carried away with him after one outlier season where everyone on the Eagles D had career years. He is not an elite edge rusher in this league and might not even be top 10 when you consider he is basically a total liability against the run.

Now apply this to hurts…

12 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I pointed it out yesterday and will repeat it.  Only Reddick and Myles Garrett hit 10+ sacks over the last 4 seasons.   Watt has been outstanding but was injured in 2022, so he missed that level.  Same with Bosa.  Parsons has 3 straight years of 10 plus, for all 3 years he's been in the league.  

They all are younger than him and are guaranteed still in their prime years. All play the run better and don't get as manhandled at the point of attack. Reddick at age 30 and any extended years from there is likely leaving his prime years. Simple as that. If he loses even a half step, he's not the same player. His get off, is his supreme value here.

1 hour ago, Sack that QB said:

He's top 5 in the NFL in sacks over the last 4 seasons. He's certainly elite. Whether or not he remains elite through future years of a contract extension is the question, but he is an elite edge rusher and has been since he converted to that role full time.

While being the main job description there is more to being an edge rusher than just sacks and Reddick is a total liability versus the run. He was also 15th in the league in sacks in 2023 when he came back down to his usual season. You need to let go of 2022 Reddick because it is HIGHLY unlikely he ever has a season like that again and it was the only one that good to date.

Either way what do you consider elite? He doesn't sniff the top 5, and with some of the young up and coming edge rushers in the league coming off of productive seasons (Hutchinson, Walker, Thibodeaux, Karlaftis, etc) It is extremely unlikely he's even top 10 in 2024 and beyond. 

Just my opinion but I don’t really care about the 2025 cap savings trading Reddick now gives. I feel like that’s just something used to justify trading him away. There are so many ways to skin that cat and if Howie is as good as everyone says he could have easily done something to keep for one year and pick up that savings somewhere. 

8 minutes ago, jojodancer said:

They all are younger than him and are guaranteed still in their prime years. All play the run better and don't get as manhandled at the point of attack. Reddick at age 30 and any extended years from there is likely leaving his prime years. Simple as that. If he loses even a half step, he's not the same player. His get off, is his supreme value here.

Reddick isn't even in the same discussion as guys like Watt, Parsons, Bosa, Garrett, Crosby, Hunter, and Burns and rightfully so. Anyone who tries to make that argument should be ignored on the spot. He's in that next tier of veteran guys Mack, Hendrickson, J. Bosa (when healthy), etc. Meanwhile there are several young stud edge rushers (Hutchinson, Walker, Thibodeaux, Karlaftis) coming off of double sack seasons that will likely ascend over the next year or two while Reddick declines.

11 minutes ago, jojodancer said:

I think you are underestimating about how unhappy Reddick got here. Already was squawking about his contract after first season. He wanted out and wants max dollars on his next contract. Wasn't happening here, regardless. He would be toxic in 2024 in his contract year playing less snaps, which would happen with Huff & Smith here and Fangio's vision for him. His career is trending down, about where Bryce Huff was about in his career track last year in New York last year as a rotational edge guy playing very few run snaps. And I presume that is how Jets will use him this year. Same as Huff last year in New York. I doubt they give him any extension. So essentially he screwed himself over by not being a good soldier here and most likely getting no more snaps in NY than he would here in 2024. Reddick made up his mind to leave here. There's nothing to talk about. He wanted out and wanted to control his destiny. Even if it's at fault and dumb.

No one knows how unhappy was here. I'm sure he was unsatisfied with his contract, but this "Reddick was SO UNHAPPY!" stuff is a total creation. People have jumped to a variety of conclusions based off of no evidence. It's assumed because the Eagles traded him. And they just assumed that if he was ok playing on that deal, they would have kept him. Maybe Reddick was ok playing on his deal and the Eagles weren't ok with his cap hit so they wanted him gone. Maybe Fangio just isn't a fan of Reddick. We just don't know. It may be true, but you're definitively declaring it like it's a known fact. And last year he didn't squawk at all about his contract. He did a "soft hold out" and wasn't a problem all season. Never once has it been shown that he is horribly unhappy.

Reddick did not want to be an Eagle in 2024. In his contract year. There's just no way to make this wish happen. I wish Reddick could have stayed for this one year. And I'm sure Howie tried to make that happen as he did with Sweat and offered a restructure. So Howie was forced in a corner and traded him for what he could get for him. What's so hard to understand with how we are here? Reddick forced his hand for 2024 and Howie obliged.

6 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

While being the main job description there is more to being an edge rusher than just sacks and Reddick is a total liability versus the run. He was also 15th in the league in sacks in 2023 when he came back down to his usual season. You need to let go of 2022 Reddick because it is HIGHLY unlikely he ever has a season like that again and it was the only one that good to date.

Either way what do you consider elite? He doesn't sniff the top 5, and with some of the young up and coming edge rushers in the league coming off of productive seasons (Hutchinson, Walker, Thibodeaux, Karlaftis, etc) It is extremely unlikely he's even top 10 in 2024 and beyond. 

I consider elite being top 5 in sacks at his position over the last 4 seasons. He produces and he's done it over multiple seasons. What other criteria do I need? He's averaged 12.5 sacks per season over the last 4 years and it would be higher if he didn't break his thumb and Patricia didn't ruin the defense.

The amount of disrespect Reddick gets is crazy and it's only because the Eagles traded him. If the Eagles signed him to an extension a year ago and someone posted that Reddick was overrated people would jump down their throats. Reddick in his short time with the Eagles was the best pure pass rusher the team has had since Reggie White and he single-handedly won them an NFC Championship game. In a city where we don't have a ton of great NFCCG moments, he came into that game and broke the Niners. And a year later the slander against the guy is absolutely ridiculous.

People are just ready to eat up whatever the Eagles are selling.

1 minute ago, jojodancer said:

Reddick did not want to be an Eagle in 2024. In his contract year. There's just no way to make this wish happen. I wish Reddick could have stayed for this one year. And I'm sure Howie tried to make that happen as he did with Sweat and offered. So Howie was forced in a corner and traded him for what he could get for him. What's so hard to understand with how we are here? Reddick forced his hand for 2024 and Howie obliged.

QFT

1 minute ago, jojodancer said:

Reddick did not want to be an Eagle in 2024. In his contract year. There's just no way to make this wish happen. I wish Reddick could have stayed for this one year. And I'm sure Howie tried to make that happen as he did with Sweat and offered a restructure. So Howie was forced in a corner and traded him for what he could get for him. What's so hard to understand with how we are here? Reddick forced his hand for 2024 and Howie obliged.

This simply isn't true. He told Jordan Schultz in an interview personally that he doesn't want to go anywhere and he loves Philly and wants to stay. There is still information about this whole saga that needs to be uncovered, but as it currently stands I believe very strongly this is far more the Eagles not wanting to pay Reddick money than it is Reddick wanting to leave town.

Reddick's cap hit for 2024 is 21 million. Getting rid of him freed up 14 million in 2025. I think it may be as simple as the Eagles being shook by the Bradberry contract of a 30 year old, Howie's ego thinking he could find the next young pass rusher to replace Reddick, and Howie salivating at adding 14 million in flexibility next March when it was projected to be a tight cap situation for them. And maybe sprinkling in Fangio's personal assessment of Reddick factoring in.

19 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

No one knows how unhappy was here. I'm sure he was unsatisfied with his contract, but this "Reddick was SO UNHAPPY!" stuff is a total creation. People have jumped to a variety of conclusions based off of no evidence. It's assumed because the Eagles traded him. And they just assumed that if he was ok playing on that deal, they would have kept him. Maybe Reddick was ok playing on his deal and the Eagles weren't ok with his cap hit so they wanted him gone. Maybe Fangio just isn't a fan of Reddick. We just don't know. It may be true, but you're definitively declaring it like it's a known fact. And last year he didn't squawk at all about his contract. He did a "soft hold out" and wasn't a problem all season. Never once has it been shown that he is horribly unhappy.

I read a quote with Reddick, basically saying something was wrong in the locker room and he could tell it was time to go. He didn't seem interested as being a part of the solution. He's protecting his last and potentially big contract. I dont buy that he wants to be an Eagle and all that stuff. He wants to get paid by the highest bidder. Whoever that is. No hometown discounts! I am not blaming him for this. I believe if he wanted to still be an Eagle he'd still be here. Even for just 2024. And then they can talk after. No! He wants a deal ASAP. And that's the hurdle Howie had to climb here. 

Just now, Sack that QB said:

I consider elite being top 5 in sacks at his position over the last 4 seasons. He produces and he's done it over multiple seasons. What other criteria do I need? He's averaged 12.5 sacks per season over the last 4 years and it would be higher if he didn't break his thumb and Patricia didn't ruin the defense.

The amount of disrespect Reddick gets is crazy and it's only because the Eagles traded him. If the Eagles signed him to an extension a year ago and someone posted that Reddick was overrated people would jump down their throats. Reddick in his short time with the Eagles was the best pure pass rusher the team has had since Reggie White and he single-handedly won them an NFC Championship game. In a city where we don't have a ton of great NFCCG moments, he came into that game and broke the Niners. And a year later the slander against the guy is absolutely ridiculous.

People are just ready to eat up whatever the Eagles are selling.

LMAO, he isn't in the same discussion as Parsons, Bosa, Garrett, Crosby, Hunter, Burns, etc. Also, since you are so obsessed with sack production and not taking into account play versus the run or the fact that other guys who were more productive on a per game basis had injuries over those last four seasons. Trey FN Hendrickson has had more sacks over the last four seasons than Reddick and nobody considers him elite. I know you love to go out of your way to be "edgy" and bash the organization but this isn't the hill to die on for that especially when projecting ahead over the next couple of seasons for a 30 year old DE who wanted to be one of the top paid guys in the league and forced his way out.

12 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Just my opinion but I don’t really care about the 2025 cap savings trading Reddick now gives. I feel like that’s just something used to justify trading him away. There are so many ways to skin that cat and if Howie is as good as everyone says he could have easily done something to keep for one year and pick up that savings somewhere. 

Over correction to last years mistakes

2 hours ago, Freshmilk said:

Man, Eagles fans are nuts.  Our D sucked last season so we change DC to an experienced and successful DC, change to an innovative OC, sign a young and upcoming DE to a good contract, sign CJ back, sign Barkley, sign a good, veteran OG, keep Graham so he retires an Eagle, have 3 picks in the top 52 of the draft, add an interesting back up QB.  Took a swing with Devin White (though I'm not confident), and had to navigate a demand for too much money/trade for their sack leader and get a 3rd which could be a 2nd for him.  So they basically got Huff and a 3rd for Reddick.  The Panthers got a 2nd & 5th for Burns and the Giants gave him $87.5 million guaranteed.   

I think you need to adjust your judgment on the off season.

Nah im good thanks