1 hour ago, Sack that QB said:

Does anyone think there is one aspect of the defense the Eagles have definitely significantly upgraded so far?

Edge: wash -Reddick +Huff. Baun doesn't move the needle.

DT: minus Cox and not really adding anyone of note = downgrade

LB: Potential for an upgrade if Devin White plays like he did in 2020. If he plays like he did last season it probably is a wash or a very minor upgrade. If he plays like 2021 or 2022 a medium sized upgrade maybe. Oren Burks is solid depth, but doesn't move the needle.

Safety: this is the closest. I think CJGJ can be a sizeable upgrade over Edmunds and then Byard. But Eagles need things to go right like he stays healthy. And I know I'm actually higher than others here on CJGJ, so other people here may not even consider it a significant upgrade. I think it's probably right below what I'd deem significant, but I think it has potential to be if he plays like 2022.

CB: Nothing significant. Might have Rodgers, added Hall, kept Maddox. Other than that no notable additions. I don't think Rodgers or Hall are significant.

That doesn't mean collectively medium sized upgrades or small upgrades here or there can't add up to overall defensive improvement, but for this particular question, analyze each area individually, I'm curious if anyone thinks the Eagles have significantly upgraded any area so far?

DT should be better with continued development from Williams, Carter, and Davis.

Edge will probably be a wash.

CJGJ should be a nice upgrade.

I think LB will be well upgraded too.

CB will probably be a downgrade with another year on Slay.  Hard to imagine them being worse, but they should be.

the actual commentary is mostly useless,   revolving around the central concept of "he went to British Columbia,  and I never heard of him,  so how good can he be"   There's a good amount of video of him playing though.    Coach him up Stout.   Day 3.

 

7 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

DT should be better with continued development from Williams, Carter, and Davis.

Edge will probably be a wash.

CJGJ should be a nice upgrade.

I think LB will be well upgraded too.

CB will probably be a downgrade with another year on Slay.  Hard to imagine them being worse, but they should be.

If there was only some mechanism by which younger players were added in a systematic manner to NFL rosters.  IF there was,  the Eagles could use that mechanism to add new players.   I heard they play football in college.  If there was some way to get college players onto the Eagles roster,  they could use college players to improve the roster.  Hopefully the Eagles can determine if there is that mechanism in 3 weeks or so,  and use that mechanism to bring in players.  
 

2 hours ago, Sack that QB said:

Does anyone think there is one aspect of the defense the Eagles have definitely significantly upgraded so far?

Edge: wash -Reddick +Huff. Baun doesn't move the needle.

DT: minus Cox and not really adding anyone of note = downgrade

LB: Potential for an upgrade if Devin White plays like he did in 2020. If he plays like he did last season it probably is a wash or a very minor upgrade. If he plays like 2021 or 2022 a medium sized upgrade maybe. Oren Burks is solid depth, but doesn't move the needle.

Safety: this is the closest. I think CJGJ can be a sizeable upgrade over Edmunds and then Byard. But Eagles need things to go right like he stays healthy. And I know I'm actually higher than others here on CJGJ, so other people here may not even consider it a significant upgrade. I think it's probably right below what I'd deem significant, but I think it has potential to be if he plays like 2022.

CB: Nothing significant. Might have Rodgers, added Hall, kept Maddox. Other than that no notable additions. I don't think Rodgers or Hall are significant.

That doesn't mean collectively medium sized upgrades or small upgrades here or there can't add up to overall defensive improvement, but for this particular question, analyze each area individually, I'm curious if anyone thinks the Eagles have significantly upgraded any area so far?

Coordinator 

42 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

DT should be better with continued development from Williams, Carter, and Davis.

Edge will probably be a wash.

CJGJ should be a nice upgrade.

I think LB will be well upgraded too.

CB will probably be a downgrade with another year on Slay.  Hard to imagine them being worse, but they should be.

A traffic cone is an upgrade from Bradberry. But Rogers will probably start and be an upgrade. I expect Slay to be challenged by a high draft pick or Ringo. They will have decent depth. And count CJGJ as un upgrade at slot (which he will play alot there) and perhaps a healthy Maddox can contribute behind him. Lot of other guys itching with some NFL experience like Hall and McPherson. At worst, there's  more depth and competition. And most importantly a real defensive coordinator.  Just need to be average and we are fine.

 

40 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

If there was only some mechanism by which younger players were added in a systematic manner to NFL rosters.  IF there was,  the Eagles could use that mechanism to add new players.   I heard they play football in college.  If there was some way to get college players onto the Eagles roster,  they could use college players to improve the roster.  Hopefully the Eagles can determine if there is that mechanism in 3 weeks or so,  and use that mechanism to bring in players.  
 

How often do players from that mechanism make teams better as rookies for teams in the back 1/3 of the draft?

8 hours ago, McMVP said:

If Lane is starting here 3 seasons from now then it’s likely a case where they are keeping him for emotional reasons rather than his level of play.  Not everyone is Jason Peters.  I seem to recall a lot of people complaining about Peters play dropping off his last few years here.  Just because it’s possible Lane can still be playing at 37/38 years old, that doesn’t mean the Eagles couldn’t get better performance from another player during these later years.  
 

Peters had 6 AP seasons and 8 straight Pro Bowl seasons.  His last AP season was at age 32, his last PB season was at the age of 34.  Yeah, he played for 7 more seasons.  
 

 

Jason Peters - PFF

Eagles
2016 - age 34  - 86.9 (great)
2017 = 84.2 (great)
2018 - 71.1 (above average)
2019 - 82.3 (great)
2020 - 67.6 (average)
Not Eagles
2021 - 77.5 (above average / great)
2022 - 70.3 (above average)
2023 - age 41 - 53.8 (bad)

Mailata - 3rd of 81 last year - 84.8
Lane - 13th of 81 last year - 80.1
Ronnie Stanley - 37th of 81 last year - 68.1   (slightly above average)

2 of the years with the Eagles, after the age of 34,  Jason Peters was great, better PFF than Lane last year,  who was 13th of 81.

2 of the years with the Eagles, after the age of 34,  Jason Peters was average or above average.   Once better than Ronnie Stanley last year, who was slightly above average with a 68.1.   

After the age of 34,   Peters was great 2 years,  above average 1 year, average 1 year.  

Even after leaving the Eagles,  at the ages of 39 and 40,  Peters was above average, only bad last year at 41.

The Eagles are keeping their entire group of cornerbacks and safeties for emotional reasons, I guess,  because none of them played as well as Lane did last year or Peters did in half the years with the Eagles past the age of 34.

 

MANU!!!

11 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

How often do players from that mechanism make teams better as rookies for teams in the back 1/3 of the draft?

very often

2 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

 

Good Post - I didn't know either of those guys,  and those are the ones the Eagles should be looking for.  If it works, it works,  and both players have huge upside,  and if it doesn't work,  you didn't spend a valuable pick and you can just draft a OL in the first, or trade for a great OL,  when that is needed.

https://steelersdepot.com/2024/04/a-tongan-ot-the-steelers-scouted-and-two-other-international-draft-prospects-worth-knowing/

this article has both your guys.

"This October article from 3 Down Nation notes a Steelers scout stopped by his
school at some point, joining the Philadelphia Eagles, who are trying to find their
next Mailata."

The guy from England needs to lift more weights.  19 bench and 26 vert won't do it.   4.81 will do it.  Played rugby,  should mean blocking TE. 

That Manu guy though.   He's not in the ras database,  but this article has him with 6073 352 and 4.96 40.  33.5 vert.    DRAFT DAY 3.   Played more often than Mims and better numbers than Mims.   And,  most importantly,  much cheaper than Mims,  especially for a position where there is no actual need,  except that every position might as well be filled by versatile freakbeasts sitting and waiting their turn. 
 

Clayton is 100% an OT. Definitely not a TE.

He needs to add muscle and obviously needs a couple years of coaching. But he seems to have potential.

2 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

The Eagles don't need an OT to start day 1.   I also think,  now that TEW found MANU!!!,  that the Eagles should forget about Mims and Guyton.

Manu is what some people say Mims is.   Manu is 12 pounds heavier,  .11 faster 40,  and 33.5 vert vs Mims 26.   Better across the board.  And he's largely unknown, and cheap.

If anyone says "oh wow,  look at Mims athleticism,  insane"  the answer is Manu is much better.   Manu is like Jordan Davis on athleticism.  Top of the line. 

The Eagles need to add 2 OL.   3 OL are out,  1 OL is in.  The starters are set for years.

I like Tyler Grable,  who has pretty much Lane's resume.  HS QB,  then TE,  then OT at a Big 12 school.   But now I like Giovanni Manu.   352 pounds and 4.96 40 and 33.5 vert.  Better than Mims,  who people are talking about because his numbers are good, not because he played college football all that well.   Manu is like a better version of Mims,  and Grable is similar to Guyton.   Guyton gets points over Grable in that Guyton was a Sooner.  Both Mims and Guyton are unnecessarily expensive for a team who won't need a starting OT for quite a while,  and have a swing tackle (Steen - who might be starting RG).

When you have both OTs signed for 3 more years,  you should be filling your roster with more raw, top athletes,  high ceilings,  positional versatility, like Grable and Manu.   I'd say draft both,  and that other one,  Clayton,  who is too light and not strong enough to play OT at this point, can be udfa on practice squad.  I'm good with that.  

Manu may be better athletically on paper than Mims, but one guy was a starter for one of the greatest college teams of all time and the other guy is playing ball in Canada.

Maybe Manu turns into an all-pro, but there is a reason one guy is going to be a first round pick and the other guy is going to be lucky to get drafted.

If you get Manu or Clayton, they are lottery tickets, not someone you would at all base your team’s future upon.

38 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

very often

When was the last time it happened to the Eagles?

3 minutes ago, TEW said:

Clayton is 100% an OT. Definitely not a TE.

He needs to add muscle and obviously needs a couple years of coaching. But he seems to have potential.

Manu may be better athletically on paper than Mims, but one guy was a starter for one of the greatest college teams of all time and the other guy is playing ball in Canada.

Maybe Manu turns into an all-pro, but there is a reason one guy is going to be a first round pick and the other guy is going to be lucky to get drafted.

If you get Manu or Clayton, they are lottery tickets, not someone you would at all base your team’s future upon.

they aren't.

If they work,  that's great,  it means that sometime in the future,  the Eagles don't need to spend.

If they don't work,  the Eagles just need to do what they did before.   Trade for a Peters, or FA a Peters,  or draft a Lane.

They definitely don't need to waste a day 1 or 2 pick on a OT. 

Why didn't Mims play for 2 years?  He has less than 10 starts in college.   Less good physically than Manu and almost never played.  8 career starts in college, despite being the #7 guy coming out of high school. 


Grable is Lane.
Manu is Mailata.

Both day 3.

 

1 minute ago, Random Reglar said:

they aren't.

If they work,  that's great,  it means that sometime in the future,  the Eagles don't need to spend.

If they don't work,  the Eagles just need to do what they did before.   Trade for a Peters, or FA a Peters,  or draft a Lane.

They definitely don't need to waste a day 1 or 2 pick on a OT. 

Why didn't Mims play for 2 years?  He has less than 10 starts in college.   Less good physically than Manu and almost never played.  8 career starts in college, despite being the #7 guy coming out of high school. 


Grable is Lane.
Manu is Mailata.

Both day 3.

 

You can’t just "trade for a Peters or draft a Lane.”

The former was a hall of fame tackle who was only available because of a cheap owner.

Lane was a top 5 pick.

This is to say, you have to strike at opportunities when they present themselves.

If Mims, or whoever the eagles believe can be the next long term starter, is available then you take him. Period.

You can ALSO bring in a developmental guy for the practice squad later in the draft or as an UDFA.

It doesn’t have to be one or the other. You take the blue chip guy for a high probability win and you take the developmental guy as a hedge and future depth.

Hurts on the Bird Taurasi broadcast

I bet it took a lot of booze to make that happen. 

18 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I bet it took a lot of booze to make that happen. 

Future Chief

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

When was the last time it happened to the Eagles?

Last year,  all teams are improved by the draft.   Some more than others,  but no way that adding 8 players,  or more,  also including udfa,  isn't going to improve the roster.  The Eagles roster will be better May 10 - after the draft - than April 20 - before the draft.  Guaranteed!

9 hours ago, just relax said:

Shady, are we talking about Shady? Somehow, I missed his time in San Francisco.

He was talking about Watters.  Watters earned his ring, Shady did not, which is why he put Watters ahead of Shady for the HoF.

57 minutes ago, TEW said:

You can’t just "trade for a Peters or draft a Lane.”

The former was a hall of fame tackle who was only available because of a cheap owner.

Lane was a top 5 pick.

This is to say, you have to strike at opportunities when they present themselves.

If Mims, or whoever the eagles believe can be the next long term starter, is available then you take him. Period.

You can ALSO bring in a developmental guy for the practice squad later in the draft or as an UDFA.

It doesn’t have to be one or the other. You take the blue chip guy for a high probability win and you take the developmental guy as a hedge and future depth.

Yes,  you can trade for a Peters or draft a Lane.  

Period.

You seem to be very firm on your stance that the Eagles must.

1) Spend the biggest possible pick.
2) For no good reason.

Must be both,  not just one.

Mims didn't do anything in college.  8 games.  Why do people like him?  The measurables.
And Manu has better measurables, and doesn't cost as much. 

Lane has $18 Million dollars a year coming through 2026.   No reason to think he'll retire leaving $18 Million a year.   Peters was above average even after leaving the Eagles.  Age 39.  No reason to think Lane won't want to do that,  to play to age 39.  If he did so,  that year would be 2029.   Peters had a 77.5 PFF when he was 39. Lane's was 80.1 last year (13 of 81).   I wouldn't be trying to force Lane out the door,  although it seems like the plan of some to waste resources on an unnecessarily expensive RT, then complain that the expensive RT isn't being used "why did Howie draft an expensive 1st round OT when there was absolutely no need to do so,  and then not play him.  Howie should be fired."  It's smart planning ahead for those whose goal it is to attack Howie.   Insist on something that's an obvious mistake, try to be so loud that Howie takes the bait,  and then get right on started attacking him for something they called for.  It's smart.  Awful,  but smart. 

Lane started week 1.
Peters,  with the Eagles, started week 1.

Andre Dillard did not start week 1.  

Whenever the Eagles feel like it,  they can grab an expensive OT.  He'll be roughly comparable to Lane, Mailata or Peters.  Could be as early as 2027.

6 hours ago, TEW said:

There are two Mailata type prospects in this draft:

1) Giavani Manu — 6’7” 350 pounds, 4.96 forty at his pro day with a 33(!) inch vertical jump at that size. He played Canadian college football, so he’s not entirely new to the sport, which makes you wonder how he didn’t get an American college offer. There were 16 teams ant his pro day, but the Eagles were not among them. Apparently we did scout him last fall, but I couldn’t find any other details on it.

2) Travis Clayton - 6’7” 300 pounds with 35 inch arms and a 4.8 forty. He’s a former British rugby player, boxer and played tennis in his youth, so presumably he is a good athlete with professional level work ethic. Only 22 years old which helps. He’s going through the NFL international player pathway like Jordan. I can’t seem to find any information on which teams have scouted him though.

I think both of these guys have a shot to get drafted, especially Manu. It seems like every team in the NFL has taken an in person look at him, and he’s played football so the learning curve shouldn’t be as steep. Clayton would be a multi-year project as he adds weight to a leaner frame and learns the game, but certainly the tools seem to be there.

I saw some videos on Travis Clayton. He is a perfect candidate for Stoutland University, a great athlete with elite traits and zero bad habits.

2 hours ago, TEW said:

Clayton is 100% an OT. Definitely not a TE.

He needs to add muscle and obviously needs a couple years of coaching. But he seems to have potential.

Teams use players who are moving from another position who are great athletes maybe just learning football as blocking TEs.  His eventual position would be OL,  but teams use players like that as extra blockers.  Lane in college was a TE before OL.  Tylan Grable,  like Lane, also went QB, TE, OL.   Clayton is unlikely to make the 53, at this point needing to learn football, having never played it, and also being light and not strong enough yet.  But,  if he's on practice squad and lifting weighwts,  some year he'll make the 53 and be a blocking TE then.   What he's actually done doesn't really have much to do with OL,  but is closer to TE.  Rugby, Tennis.   There are 5 starting OL positions and 1 part time blocking TE position, you don't really want to keep a possible OL there for a long time,   but blocking from the skill position was a weakness last year.   Tylan Grable can do that,   already was a blocking TE in college.

6 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

Teams use players who are moving from another position who are great athletes maybe just learning football as blocking TEs.  His eventual position would be OL,  but teams use players like that as extra blockers.  Lane in college was a TE before OL.  Tylan Grable,  like Lane, also went QB, TE, OL.   Clayton is unlikely to make the 53, at this point needing to learn football, having never played it, and also being light and not strong enough yet.  But,  if he's on practice squad and lifting weighwts,  some year he'll make the 53 and be a blocking TE then.   What he's actually done doesn't really have much to do with OL,  but is closer to TE.  Rugby, Tennis.   There are 5 starting OL positions and 1 part time blocking TE position, you don't really want to keep a possible OL there for a long time,   but blocking from the skill position was a weakness last year.   Tylan Grable can do that,   already was a blocking TE in college.

Jeezus man. Can we put you on a 2 post daily pitch count? Your dissertations are taking up whole pages.

4 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Steen was basically their second round pick.  They traded out of their 2 into the top of the 3rd round for pocket change.  You don't spend a pick that rich on a swing tackle.

If they already have no plans for him as an OL starter after 1 year, that's a pretty big disappointment.  

Totally disagree.

A high 3rd rounder for a your 6th OL is totally acceptable in my view, assuming they are quality. As someone pointed out above, Seumalo was a third rounder and did nothing his first two years. No one would call him a bad pick though.

Chances are you’re going have lineman miss a number of games through the course of a season, so this is like drafting a 3rd or 4th DL; they may not be in a rotation, but chances are they will play 4+ full games worth of snaps over the course of a season, and nothing will scuttle an offense like one piss poor lineman.

That said, I highly doubt the eagles have given up on him. More likely they are going to build depth and competition along the OL and let the wheat separate from the chaff.

3 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

Yes,  you can trade for a Peters or draft a Lane.  
 

Sorry, but this is ridiculous.  Yes they traded for Peters, but only because Buffalo was dumb enough to want to part with him at such a young age and ability - they didn't see his potential.  I'm sure they regretted it long term looking back.  

Well yes, you can draft a Lane - but not just anywhere in the draft.  This discussion is discussing the Eagles tendency to prioritize the OT position and the likelihood they will continue down this path and that they value the position highly, and be willing to trade up to acquire a guy that can be the next 10-12 year staple bookend.  

You can't trade for this sort of player unless you get lucky again, which is highly unlikely.  You can draft this player, but not on day 3 and likely not day 2.  I'm not sure what you're missing here.  I'm beginning to feel you think the improbable scenario is a common occurrence.  

34 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

I saw some videos on Travis Clayton. He is a perfect candidate for Stoutland University, a great athlete with elite traits and zero bad habits.

Yeah — I think I like him more than Manu.

I haven’t seen much of him, but just conceptually I think a raw athlete with zero experience has a better chance of developing than a guy who has experience.

I like the boxing background a lot — you know he can handle the physicality. Many, even though he is an enormous human being, seems kind of soft. The footage I saw of him playing in Canada wasn’t all that impressive - she should be obliterating that competition.