1 minute ago, just relax said:

We can crow about getting DeJean but it’s worth remembering that Washington got Mikey Sanristill and Ben Sinnott with 50 and 53. Who won that trade?

Time will tell.   I think both teams feel really good about that trade right now.

15 minutes ago, just relax said:

What alerted me to the first two is that after they were picked, the Eagles were two picks later and traded out both times.

But the cost of trading up to ensure they got those players was relatively small.

So Howie might have wanted them, but not to the extent he thought it was worth either the cost of a trade up or the opportunity cost of not trading down.

He did trade up to get Dejean and Trotter, so it wasn't as if he was reluctant to do so.

So he must have felt they had only a small increment of value over the alternative move.

Revealed preference.

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Hopefully Ranger stays healthy he has a shot at cy young. He’s been absolutely incredible this year. Someone on Phillies thread said it best, his demeanor out there is like when cliff lee was at his height just cool and calm. Plus evolving as a pitcher. 

Yup.   The most fun thing for me watching the Phillies right now is that the starters are actually PITCHING, not THROWING.  And JT is calling some gems.

The knock on DeJean and the opportunity with DeJean are 2 sides of the same coin.

Obviously, we’ll all be disappointed if he doesn’t end up a high end starter playing 90+% of the snaps once he matures.  But what position suits him?  Can you ruin him by moving him around too much and not letting him find a home?  Or do you unlock him by moving him around and having him fly all over the defense?

Fangio will be very, very important in the success or failure of this pick.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Time will tell.   I think both teams feel really good about that trade right now.

In general I like trades that please both teams. However, I think Washington had a great draft, which I begrudge them because they’re in the NFCE.

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Time will tell.   I think both teams feel really good about that trade right now.

It’s clear the Eagles have no regrets. Of course you never know. 

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Time will tell.   I think both teams feel really good about that trade right now.

There isn't necessarily a "winner" in every trade, for one thing, the value of a player tends to be team specific, especially after the 1st rd.

DeJean might have more value to the Eagles than most teams if the consensus is that his highest value is as an inside hybrid (S/NCB) versus as an outside CB, and that he's more valuable in a zone heavy scheme than a man scheme due to his relatively tight hips. In that case, the gain in value to the Eagles is greater than the loss in value to many teams not taking him.

Worst part of this weekend is that I think the Chiefs nailed their draft.  I have terrible Chiefs fatigue and can’t stand them staying on top, but I worry they slayed their draft.

3 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

both brothers to the same team.

Dang.

Must've gotten used to playing in Frisco, TX

30 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

None of those guy visited and the 2 WRs they did draft actually did.  I think people are projecting their own guys as guys Howie wanted.  I do think they wanted Fautanu in rd 1 but other tan that they definitely wanted DeJean and Hunt and they didn't seem to care enough about anyone else.  I'm sure there are different guys they'd have taken if they fell at certain spots but they didn't seem to really care

I think people saw them trade out after guys that conceivably would’ve made sense for them got taken before and figured that’s why they traded out, but maybe it was a goal of them to maneuver to get picks next year even before the draft started. And they couldn’t have done that without trading down. Regardless, Jeremiah said there’s players in this draft that many teams have as 6th round talents that will go in rounds 3 or 4, that’s how badly this draft lacks depth.

With all that said, if the guys they passed on or could’ve traded up for end up great and the guys they took end up sucking then Howie will get roasted for it. That’s just how it works when it comes to sports. The Fire Howie threads will get bumped with Troy Franklin and Roman Wilson stats.

11 minutes ago, austinfan said:

But the cost of trading up to ensure they got those players was relatively small.

So Howie might have wanted them, but not to the extent he thought it was worth either the cost of a trade up or the opportunity cost of not trading down.

He did trade up to get Dejean and Trotter, so it wasn't as if he was reluctant to do so.

So he must have felt they had only a small increment of value over the alternative move.

Revealed preference.

You’re trying to have it both ways. The cost of trading up was relatively small but he wouldn’t pay it. Instead he kept trading down and down and down. None of the players he did end up choosing were worth near as much as Suamataia alone. That one really stung.

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Worst part of this weekend is that I think the Chiefs nailed their draft.  I have terrible Chiefs fatigue and can’t stand them staying on top, but I worry they slayed their draft.

Chiefs, Washington and the Lions all had terrific drafts. The Steelers had a sneaky good one too. 

26 minutes ago, austinfan said:

The cost of moving up to take a guy they "targeted" was so small by the 4th and 5th rounds that it's unlikely they lost anyone they really wanted.

When they wanted someone, and the value was right, Howie didn't hesitate to pull the trigger (Trotter).

That was sentimental slop. The value was pure PR and not a football decision.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

My grandfather used to go to the movies with a quarter in his pocket and come back with change.   You constantly reference ancient history.  What he did at Utah is completely irrelevant at this point.  He is what he is, and the Eagles have made it clear what he is... he's a PR only.

Once upon a time, Ty Detmer held the record in the NCAA for most: pass attempts, completions, passing yards, TD passes, total yards of offense and passer rating...     but when he came to the NFL, he became a backup QB to players who didn't have nearly the same statistical success in NCAA as him.    In NCAA, Detmer was a record setter.  In the NFL, he was a backup QB.   When Covey was at Utah, he was their top WR.  In the NFL, he's not close.  He's a PR only.  

 

Oh,  I'll tell you the same thing again,  so that the back and forth will stop.

Covey gets WR snaps.  And guess what, that makes him a WR.

The incomprehensible desire for the Eagles to never take Brown and Smith off the field effected things.

Punt returners are often backup WRs who get snaps instead of the starters based on need.

Covey is the vet,  2 vets from last year are out (Quez, Oz) and it would be reasonable to think that Covey, the WR who is more of a vet than rookies, might see more snaps.  Who knows?  The Eagles don't have an unusual number of WRs,  it's moved to a more normal number.  It looks like you have WR1 - Brown starter / Wilson backup,   WR2 - Smith starter / other Smith backup  WR3 - Campbell and/or Covey.  WR3 is also a position that could be TE2,  RB2,  FB,  so you wouldn't think that Covey + Campbell would = 100%.

Trotter Jr is a legit pick.  

Also anecdotally, if you look at Howie's demeanor from the war room each day, he was far more subdued on day 1 than day 2 or 3. He was not pumping his fists or doing bro hugs to anyone after the Mitchell pick. I think he really wanted Fautanu or Fuaga. Possibly Mims. And the price to move up was just too rich. Day 2-3 he was all fired up after every pick.

8 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

Can't find this Smith guy on DJ's board. He was #230 on Kiper's Board.

EJ Snyder from Bootleg loved him some Ainias Smith

1 minute ago, just relax said:

You’re trying to have it both ways. The cost of trading up was relatively small but he wouldn’t pay it. Instead he kept trading down and down and down. None of the players he did end up choosing ere worth neear as much as Suamataia alone. That one really stung.

I believe they made a strategic decision after day 1 to A) go get DeJean and B) spend the rest of the draft acquiring assets in 2025.  They made picks along the way down the board, but walking away with multiple pick in 2025 had to be a goal.

You can do those kinds of things with job security.

I'm happy with the Eagles draft from the players to the 2025 picks (especially the 3rd and 4th). However, it seemed like Howie got too cute. There were players to be had multiple times and looking back, yes, the Eagles slot may have been 3 to 5 picks earlier than those players went, but by trading down they missed them all together. At some point you just have to pull the trigger on some guys. There were RG for the taking almost every time the Eagles traded back.

 

10 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

 

With all that said, if the guys they passed on or could’ve traded up for end up great and the guys they took end up sucking then Howie will get roasted for it. That’s just how it works when it comes to sports. The Fire Howie threads will get bumped with Troy Franklin and Roman Wilson stats.

There are definitely some bitter people here.  They obsess over individual picks for years.  I take a more macro view.  If the team is good because enough moves worked then I'm happy. Of course some moves will work and some won't.  

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Trotter Jr is a legit pick.  

Yea not sure why people are acting like he had no business being drafted. He was drafted right around where he should have, and we need LBs. If there was a head and shoulders better option idk who it was

1 minute ago, devpool said:

Yea not sure why people are acting like he had no business being drafted. He was drafted right around where he should have, and we need LBs. If there was a head and shoulders better option idk who it was

5th round it’s hard to complain. 

 

7 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I'm happy with the Eagles draft from the players to the 2025 picks (especially the 3rd and 4th). However, it seemed like Howie got too cute. There were players to be had multiple times and looking back, yes, the Eagles slot may have been 3 to 5 picks earlier than those players went, but by trading down they missed them all together. At some point you just have to pull the trigger on some guys. There were RG for the taking almost every time the Eagles traded back.

 

The Eagles love OL.  I'm sure if they really thought those guys were legit starting RG prospects for 2024 then they'd have stayed and picked them.  I'm sure they'd have liked if certain guys fell to certain spots but I really never got the feeling they felt that strongly about it.   Of course in hindsight people will call out whoever is successful from the 4th rd or 5th rd that they didn't take 

15 minutes ago, just relax said:

You’re trying to have it both ways. The cost of trading up was relatively small but he wouldn’t pay it. Instead he kept trading down and down and down. None of the players he did end up choosing were worth near as much as Suamataia alone. That one really stung.

In your eyes.

Stoutland pretty much gets what he wants, if he had lobbied for a specific OL earlier in the draft, I'd expect Howie to make it happen if the cost was reasonable.

If there is one coach to whom Howie defers, it's Stoutland.

Doesn't mean they might not have taken them, but they didn't value those players high enough to pay the price - and the price was the opportunity cost of trading into a deeper draft next year as well as the small cost of moving up.

If scouts had judged 4th rds in this draft as mostly equivalent to 5th rds in a normal draft, then trading into 2025 has extra value - and Howie likes to exploit other GMs desperation to win now to garner additional value by trading forward.