9 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Even with our own players that seem great at first. Remember the goat WR that was going to save the franchise? Travis Fulgham? At one point fans were excited about Mack Hollins and yes even Quez Watkins when they caught TD passes and people thought we found gems. Every year there's some roster bubble RB people think will be the next big thing. Josh Adams was supposed to be great. Clement played well in the Super Bowl and his career was short lived. I remember fans thinking RB Tony Hunt was going to be great. It happens.

And of course the inspiration for the Nasty Nate award.

Well Fulgham turned bad because someone on the blog bought his jersey too soon.  

10 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

I'm gonna stop after this, but long term in the NFL is a few years.  Teams aren't raising children.  Eagles 2017 SB Champs, by 202O dregs of the league, 2022 back in the SB, 2023 historic collapse with the leagues worst defense.  All of this within 8 seasons.  There is no such thing as long term planning, only short term planning.

There is roster turnover ever year. But you have some core players that are longer term than 3 years. Look at Kelce, Lane, BG and Cox how long they played. Other than those guys, we have guys from the 2018 draft still on the roster. That's 6 years ago. You continue to build through the draft and turnover players, while certain key players remain longer than that. 

Look at how the defense is being rebuilt. It's not just in one season. Over 3 years they've taken Davis, Dean, Carter, Smith, Brown, Ringo, Ricks, Blankenship and now this year's class. That's the core of your defense plus a few older picks or free agents. 

As CE said, if you have the opportunity to take a player who will be a 9 or 10 but might not play full-time for a year, vs taking a player who is a 6 or a 7 you take the best player. 

4 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Mitchell is going to have a learning curve just because of competition.  It doesn't mean he won't contribute this season.   

I didn't say he won't contribute this season, I expect him to. The comparison was Arnold who is more "pro-ready," Belichick said that Mitchell over time will be the better player because of his attributes, but needs to be developed on more technique. If I recall, he mentioned certain things in scheme they didn't do at Toledo that he will need to learn at the NFL level. He basically blamed the college coaches for not spending enough time on techinque.

For all we know, they might cut Bradberry and Mitchell could start day 1. 

5 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Well Fulgham turned bad because someone on the blog bought his jersey too soon.  

There was a funny Instagram account for him called Fulghoat.

12 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Look at the offensive line. Lane Johnson is the only one who started as a rookie. Dickerson took over as a starter as a rookie due to injury. Yet Mailata and Dickerson are stud players who got their contracts extended and will retire Eagles. Totally worth the wait rather than draft for "immediate impact." 

And we are hopeful with Jurgens - who sat as a rookie, and stepped in at guard as a 2nd year player, and now we hope is a long term fixture at C.  And even Steen, who sat as a rookie, and seems to be penciled in at RG... and hopefully can stick there as well.  And Dickerson, Jurgens were 2nd round picks (both HIGH second round picks) and Steen was practically a 2nd round pick, being taken at #65... 1 pick after the standard 64 picks of the top 2 rounds.   These are premium picks, in my view, ones where the goal should always be a long-term starter and anything less than that is a disappointment.  We've got 1 in Dickerson who is a fixture.  We've got another that's been written in PEN at Center now.  And we have Steen in pencil at RG.   That's the goal of the draft.   And these are important positions, probably the most important in terms of long term stability leading to long term success.   Switching out a CB for another CB is far less of a mix up than moving OL pieces around.  OL Stability generally means offensive stability.  

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Meh.   The only way a team can yo-yo like that is if they have long term building blocks in place on the roster.   This team absolutely did, and still does.  The bridge from 2017 to 2023 was Kelce, Johnson, Cox, Graham... but a lot of the fill-in around them aged out.  Brooks out, Dickerson in.  Peters out, Mailata in.  Ertz out, Goedert in.  Wentz out, Hurts in.   These are major building block pieces and the team had a succession plan in place.  That's how long term success is built.  And that's why this team really has had it, and the down years have been the outliers.  None of the pieces I mentioned above are about 3-4 years.  They were all about close to a decade of impact with the team, the exception being Wentz.  And oh what an outlier he is.

Agreed. You can certainly long term plan with the trenches and a franchise QB.

7 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Meh.   The only way a team can yo-yo like that is if they have long term building blocks in place on the roster.   This team absolutely did, and still does.  The bridge from 2017 to 2023 was Kelce, Johnson, Cox, Graham... but a lot of the fill-in around them aged out.  Brooks out, Dickerson in.  Peters out, Mailata in.  Ertz out, Goedert in.  Wentz out, Hurts in.   These are major building block pieces and the team had a succession plan in place.  That's how long term success is built.  And that's why this team really has had it, and the down years have been the outliers.  None of the pieces I mentioned above are about 3-4 years.  They were all about close to a decade of impact with the team, the exception being Wentz.  And oh what an outlier he is.

Cox provided immediate impact, so did Lane, heck even Kelce played early.  The only one who didn't was Graham and he was written off by most of us by his 3rd season and all we talked about for years was we coulda drafted Earl Thomas, who, by the way, provided immediate impact.  It's great those guys bucked the reality of the NFL and longevity. The 4 of them on the same team for that long period of time is much more of an outlier than Wentz.

I don't necessarily disagree with your point of view, but I also know windows close quickly,  (sometimes within the season), and if young players don't make an impact quickly teams suffer the consequences.

8 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Mitchell is going to have a learning curve just because of competition.  It doesn't mean he won't contribute this season.   

He will definitely be counted on to contribute, but I think Arnold will have more success early on.  

21 minutes ago, judunno said:

Yes Bryan Smith is a good one. Most 3rd rounders and down aren't ready to contribute right away. Hell 1st and 2nd rounders aren't always in a position where they're ready to immediately jump in (Hi Nolan). That could be a positional thing as well with other circumstances at play. Guess it's just me. I didn't immediately think of a work out warrior LB who we didn't know if they could even play football (turns out it he couldn't) when the Eagles selected Hunt.

Again I’m not comparing them as positions or they both are workout warriors. My comparison was like smith and mailata that Taylor and Hunt were super raw coming out of college (mailata didn’t go to college so his vastlY different in terms of rawness) and it was known that it was likely going to be a two project before you saw the full fruits of your labor.

I’m not saying he’s anything like Davion Taylor as a player or prospects other than he is super raw just like Davion Taylor was when he was drafted in the third round. Again all 3 had similar issues with rawness and needing extensive time coaching them up to get them able and ready to play nfl football. 

26 minutes ago, NOTW said:

FWIW this is what Belichick said, that over time after developing Mitchell would be a better player. We'll see how it goes.

A lot is also dependent on the scheme. They say right now Arnold is the better prospect because he played more press man at Alabama whereas Mitchell predominately was in zone at Toledo. So generally speaking, Arnold is "better" and could play for more teams. But now that they are selected it really doesn't matter as much since Fangio and the Eagles are predominately zone anyway and not as much press man. 

1 hour ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Probably need to tap the breaks on reasonable expectations for him as a rookie.

Expecting him to be a special teamer and work in sub packages half way through the season is not some kind of overly ambitious projection IMO.

We aren’t talking about him as a starter. 15 snaps a game type of role.

16 hours ago, TEW said:

Group A:

Rodgers shines — he has legit talent, can play NCB or outside, no on field red flags, and it’s easiest for a CB to contribute without injuries creating playing time.

Campbell sinks — at best he’s looking at a niche role as the deep threat.

Group B:

Jurgens — he’s the chosen one, has experience now, and will play every offensive snap that he’s healthy for.

Davis sinks — this is mostly just an expectations thing. People want Aaron Donald and he’s probably never going to be a double digit sack type of player.

Group 😄

Smith Shines— less competition and was a first round pick so will be given every opportunity.
 

Ringo sinks — finds Slay, Mitchell, DeJean, Rodgers and Ricks as competition. Tough to win playing time among that group. I think he’s going to be a quality player eventually though. Keep in mind he’s still younger than the two corners we drafted.

Group D :

Williams shines — he’s in a contract year working in a rotation where our highest snap count player from last year retired.

White sinks — he’s just a mediocre player. 

 

 

I am curious to see if Juergens can handle big nose tackles better than Kelce did in his early  years at center. Maybe Jason taught him the tricks. 

1 hour ago, Freshmilk said:

I hope it comes true but is is far more statistically probable he won't make it much past his 3rd season.  Heck, I fully expect the Eagles to draft another DE next season that will play immediately, jeopardizing Hunt's roster spot TC of 2025.

Sigh. Hunt is NOT a DE.

3 minutes ago, eggs said:

I am curious to see if Juergens can handle big nose tackles better than Kelce did in his early  years at center. Maybe Jason taught him the tricks. 

He's had 2 years in an NFL weight room at this point.

He’s had 2 years to learn from Kelce and 2 years to learn from Stoutland.

I expect him to hit the ground running as a high end center.

4 minutes ago, just relax said:

Sigh. Hunt is NOT a DE.

From the Eagles website...

4 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

From the Eagles website...

I wouldn't put too much stock in to that. There isn't a single OLB listed on the roster. 

8 minutes ago, just relax said:

Sigh. Hunt is NOT a DE.

Hope you rolled your eyes and whispered under your breath what a dope I am.  

2 minutes ago, just relax said:

Sigh. Hunt is NOT a DE.

It seems like Fangio is moving towards personnel tailored for the zone blitz.  We'd groan when Reddick/Sweat dropped into coverage because they were bad at it -and- our LBs didn't offer much getting after the QB.  Devin White has his warts, but he is a talented in this area.  Nakobe was often given blitz assignments at UGA.  So, a conventional DE working out of a 3pt stance might not be in the cards.

18 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

Outlaw will do personal attacks despite it not being allowed, and will always get away with it.   And Outlaw will be factually wrong about something.

You can always report him

1 hour ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

How could have been less focused on potential?  Pick more linemen?

First round WRs seem to have higher bust rates than CBs.  First round TEs never seem to live up to their draft slot.  Safeties are really hard to evaluate.  LBs and RBs usually aren't worth the draft capital.

Linemen are the easiest to scout.  Which is why they go early and often.  

You are right that most players are drafted on potential.  Mitchell was the right pick at 22 but I don’t think he was undervalued.  I always saw DeSean as a second round value.  But there is a degree of project that supports where they were selected.  

10 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

Hope you rolled your eyes and whispered under your breath what a dope I am.  

Nah. I shouted to the heavens.

Or not.

I am lactose intolerant, though, so we have an issue there.🥛👎

4 minutes ago, Waiting4Someday said:

It seems like Fangio is moving towards personnel tailored for the zone blitz.  We'd groan when Reddick/Sweat dropped into coverage because they were bad at it -and- our LBs didn't offer much getting after the QB.  Devin White has his warts, but he is a talented in this area.  Nakobe was often given blitz assignments at UGA.  So, a conventional DE working out of a 3pt stance might not be in the cards.

We'd groan because the defense sucked, they didn't have the personnel to do it, and they disguised nothing properly. It would be another thing if it actually worked.

27 minutes ago, TEW said:

He's had 2 years in an NFL weight room at this point.

He’s had 2 years to learn from Kelce and 2 years to learn from Stoutland.

I expect him to hit the ground running as a high end center.

He's got some shoes to fill but he also had some great teachers

My uniformed view is that they would be best served to have Slay, Mitchell, DeJean, Blankenship, and CJGJ on the field all the time.  DeJean and CJGJ can continuously move between NCB and Safety - further disguising coverage. 

Use different kinds of front six, 4-2, 5-1.  Diminish our exposure at LB and take advantage of DeJean and CJGJ in run fits.  OCs like to abuse smallish NCBs in the run game.  Our guys wouldn't fit that mold.

1 hour ago, BigEFly said:

Of course, Mitchell and DeSean are projects.  DeSean hasn’t played S or nickel and certainly not in the NFL.  Mitchell isn’t refined.   Lots of good on his tape but areas for improvement and biting against a MAC receiver isn’t the same as biting on a move by a top NFL WR.  Devonta Smith is going to be good for him.  38% of NFL CBs from the first round make it to a second contract with the drafting team.  CB has a high bust rate.  I am certainly happy with the picks  but they haven’t succeeded at the NFL level yet. This draft seemed more focused on potential than unusual.  

Nolan Smith, in my view, was more of a project pick than either Mitchell or DeJean.  Both Mitchell and DeJean have significant starting experience and production.  Mitchell looked dominant at the Senior Bowl.  He will have a learning curve but he probably has more of the skillset he needs to play than any of the CBs that were drafted. I think DeJean is more of a project but he did play some at Nickel and box safety.  His path to starting isn't as clear but he definitely may be first team nickel by the end of camp.