5 minutes ago, judunno said:

Better than OK. Top in class in many categories... may or may not change your mind

https://phillycovercorner.com/2023/12/draft-profile-rb-jaylen-wright-tennessee/

Where would you rank Wright?

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Weirdly, I don't see that number as being 'lead' back territory.   But, that's just me being old, I guess.   20-25 carries a game was always the line for me.   Meh, I'm just a dinosaur.  

 

Most backs are in a rotation these days. Not many bell cows left. Plus a lot more passing in this era. So yeah we're relics :)

15 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Situationally, but I don't think "much more". 

McCaffery averaged 17 carries per game.

Henry was at 16.5 carries per game. 

Swift was at 14.3 carries per game. 

What was the std dev? The inconsistent use of swift was a big negative

Pair a guy like MarShawn Lloyd with Swift

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Weirdly, I don't see that number as being 'lead' back territory.   But, that's just me being old, I guess.   20-25 carries a game was always the line for me.   Meh, I'm just a dinosaur.  

 

It’s all semantics, but I think you have bellcows (Kyren Williams of all people), lead back (like Swift), committee back (Jaylen Warren) and then role players like third down backs.

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Where would you rank Wright?

For the Eagles in my top 5. I want a back that can get yards after contact I like the fact that Wright doesn't have a lot of wear and tear. Benson, Allen, Estime, Wright, Lloyd

7 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Weirdly, I don't see that number as being 'lead' back territory.   But, that's just me being old, I guess.   20-25 carries a game was always the line for me.   Meh, I'm just a dinosaur.  

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-touches-per-game-by-rb-in-2023

Not familiar with this site, but if the numbers are accurate, Swift is about middle of the pack for touches per game, which is more or less indicative of a guy that's getting the bulk of the workload at RB. Not a bell cow like CMC or Barkley, but not really in a timeshare either.

11 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Yea most of those guys are marginal roster players or have been hurt. Vaitai and Harris haven't played in months (Lions had some injuries too). And Sudfeld, for example, wasn't active for a single game all year I don't think. He was stuck behind Bridgewater and some other rookie they drafted. 

Reading through the article, I'm not seeing anywhere that is says only 23 players are under contract for 2024. Looking at OTC here: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/detroit-lions, they list 38 players under contract although I don't think that's accurate either since they list FAs like CJGJ. So while the number is definitely less than 38, it's not as low as 23 either from what I can see. Maybe you were looking ahead to 2025 where they list only 23 players under contract.

Back to who they need to re-sign, of that list, Glasgow, CJGJ, Skipper, Reeves-Maybin, and maybe Benito Jones are tlikely o be priority re-signings. Probably whatever ST players are needed too. The others are the very definition of the term JAG.

Looking again at their core players, you're right that St Brown, Sewell, and McNeil are going to see their cap numbers all go way up if/when they sign extensions, but Decker's likely won't if he signs an extension and Goff's might even go down (not sure I agree that he's going to command enough on new a deal to see his 2024 cap number spike significantly from the $32M where it's at now.)

So let's say they extend St Brown and his '24 cap number likely jumps to $15M - $20M range (highly dependent on the structure of course), Sewell will get a nice bump and be in a similar range, McNeil probably around $8M-$10M, that leaves them with about $10M-$20M to work with (before any other cuts or restructuring) for the rest of the returning players to prioritze re-signing. Every other player needed to fill out the roster can be at or near the minimum.

Now do the same with the Packers knowing that Jordan Love is going to also get a new deal before the end of 2024. Looking at their starters, sounds like both their starting safeties are FAs and also their starting RG.

Comparing their rosters:

QB: Push (though I'd say that only because I need to see a bit more of Love before I elevate him over a vet like Goff, but if you want to give Love the edge here, I wouldn't argue)

RB: DET (Gibbs is a stud and Jones is losing a step)

WR: DET 

TE: DET

OL: DET

DL: DET (but it's close I think)

LB: GB 

CB: GB (by a mile)

S: DET (under the assumption GB downgrade from existing players since cap could limit who they bring on)

Yeah meant 2025 for 23. But still they have 34 free agents this year and a lot of them were their depth and even some starters.

I’d didn’t bring up packers depth. you did. But if you are worried about GB depth then you should be worried about the lions losing the guys they are going to see depth issues that you claimed the packers are. And the packers can clear with some guys who are dead weight around 30-40 mil. They are gonna have cap in 2024 and in 2025 $92 mil at the moment. They are in the same boat in terms of depth. Why i bring that up is you are worried about GB death the lions are staring at the same issue 

I’d take love over Goff. I’ve seen Goff’s limitations. Also GB WRs don’t have st. Brown but they have good players and quality depth. Reynolds is a FA. Williams still is unproven. They have st. Brown. Packers have Watson, Doubs, Reed. I’d take the lions cause of st. Brown but i think Watson, Reed and Doubs had better years than Williams

1 minute ago, judunno said:

For the Eagles in my top 5. I want a back that can get yards after contact I like the fact that Wright doesn't have a lot of wear and tear. Benson, Allen, Estime, Wright, Lloyd

No Brooks? Just not interested in drafting a player off an ACL?

20 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I watched Irving. Looks like a change of pace guy. Who is Tracy?

Tyrone Tracy . Vidal is another small school back I like 

30 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

@HazletonEagle

I watched the "top” RBs and came away mostly unimpressed. If I had to rank them, I’d go…

1. Jonathon Brooks: Unfortunately he tore his ACL, but I think he is the most complete RB. Decent speed, good contact balance, good in the passing game. 

2. Trey Benson: Weird that he didn’t get more carries. Good speed, good contact balance. Surprisingly smooth in the passing game, but probably not a guy you want playing on third downs.

3. Braelon Allen if he cuts weight: I’m going to lump Estime in here with him although I prefer Allen. They both need to drop about 10 pounds each. Allen might be a little too upright to make it, but he has good feet and contact balance. Dropping weight to give him more burst or top end speed could make a huge difference. You said Estime looked too slow. I agree. He’s tough, but NFL defenders are gonna be on him too quickly with his lack of burst. He’s kind of like a rich man’s Snell, the old RB from Kentucky. Allen seems more like Blount.

4. Marshon Lloyd: It feels like he’s getting slept on. Looks good as a runner and receiver. Nice burst and contact balance. Kind of reminds me of when Aaron Jones was coming out of UTEP. If you told me neither Allen nor Estime cut weight to add speed, I’d put Lloyd third. 

I agree with Brooks and then Benson at the top. And Allen and Estime are slow.

Don't forget Blake Corum. He's small but I still think he can handle a lead back role.

I also agree about Lloyd although I haven't watched a lot of RBs yet maybe others will sneak in to my rankings in between these guys. 

I said in the Lloyd thread,  there are a bunch of underwhelming  RBs that are sorta nice power backs and he is the closest to looking pretty good out of that bunch. That bunch includes guys like Schrader from Mizzou, Ray Davis from Kentucky, and Isaiah Davis from SDSU.

 

If you're a team that would like a shifty guy, Bucky Irving from Oregon is nice.  But he's another small guy and just not someone I'm interested in. 

I do really love Laube as a small school sleeper but he's at the senior bowl and will be a well known commodity now. He's been compared to Danny Woodhead. I think he's gonna be a team nice player for someone in the run and pass game. 

 

That's about all I've watched so far. 

I feel like I vaguely remember watching Carson Steele from UCLA but I don't remember what he looked like. 

9 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Yeah meant 2025 for 23. But still they have 34 free agents and a lot of them were their depth and even some starters.

I’d didn’t bring up packers depth. you did. But if you are worried about GB depth then you should be worried about the lions losing the guys they are going to see depth issues that you claimed the packers are. And the packers can clear with some guys who are dead weight around 30-40 mil. They are gonna have cap in 2024 and in 2025 $92 mil at the moment. They are in the same boat in terms of depth. Why i bring that up is you are worried about GB death the lions are staring at the same issue 

Again, just looking at the total number of free agents is misleading, the ones they need to re-sign are the handful I listed as everyone else wasn't really contributing to their depth that I was referring to this year. And the packers are losing the same number of starters and will need to clear space to extend anyone needed for 2025 where they are listed as only having 36 players under contract (not sure where you think they're gonna be able to clear $40M from off their books for 2024.) 

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

 

B. They traded with Dallas and let them get Micah Parsons.

 

TBF, Dallas would never make the trade if they thought we were taking Parsons. 

3 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I liked CJGJ as he was a play maker but I’m not going to say he should have been back. He made his decision that he wanted to get paid and then stuck his fingers up to us on the way out.

If you're a safety and can't tackle you shouldn't be playing safety. That said, yes he did, I appreciate the honesty there. Lol.

 

12 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

No Brooks? Just not interested in drafting a player off an ACL?

Yeah... tired of them drafting damaged goods. The RB shelf life is limited as it is. I expect them to get a veteran in FA whether it's resigning Swift or bringing in someone else. Their MO is to have most of their needs addressed as best as possible in FA before hitting the draft so that they can go BPA. I'm thinking a guy like Wright or Lloyd will be in the range that they would consider a back.

1 minute ago, judunno said:

Yeah... tired of them drafting damaged goods. The RB shelf life is limited as it is. I expect them to get a veteran in FA whether it's resigning Swift or bringing in someone else. Their MO is to have most of their needs addressed as best as possible in FA before hitting the draft so that they can go BPA. I'm thinking a guy like Wright or Lloyd will be in the range that they would consider a back.

I suspect Brooks will be drafted higher than I care to pick him (our comp 3), so it will be a moot point. None of these RBs should go in the top 2 rounds IMO. 

Welp. Carter Hart is done

8 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I agree with Brooks and then Benson at the top. And Allen and Estime are slow.

Don't forget Blake Corum. He's small but I still think he can handle a lead back role.

I also agree about Lloyd although I haven't watched a lot of RBs yet maybe others will sneak in to my rankings in between these guys. 

I said in the Lloyd thread,  there are a bunch of underwhelming  RBs that are sorta nice power backs and he is the closest to looking pretty good out of that bunch. That bunch includes guys like Schrader from Mizzou, Ray Davis from Kentucky, and Isaiah Davis from SDSU.

 

If you're a team that would like a shifty guy, Bucky Irving from Oregon is nice.  But he's another small guy and just not someone I'm interested in. 

I do really love Laube as a small school sleeper but he's at the senior bowl and will be a well known commodity now. He's been compared to Danny Woodhead. I think he's gonna be a team nice player for someone in the run and pass game. 

 

That's about all I've watched so far. 

I feel like I vaguely remember watching Carson Steele from UCLA but I don't remember what he looked like. 

You should watch some Cody Schrader. Very well rounded back. Really good vision, some power, contact balance, decent hands. Pretty much does everything really well but not elite at anything. 

22 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Probably should look at touches instead of carries. I'd imagine McCaffrey would be much higher vs Swift in that case.

It would be less than a 2 touch per game swing. It doesn't feel like it but Swift averaged 2.4 receptions, McCafferey was 4.2.

I just think the rotation and situational usage was so bad with Swift it seems like he wasn't used as much as he was. Week 1 and 2 are prime examples. In those 2 games he had 2 total touches Week 1 and then 31 total Week 2. 

4 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I suspect Brooks will be drafted higher than I care to pick him (our comp 3), so it will be a moot point. None of these RBs should go in the top 2 rounds IMO. 

I'm guessing the underwear olympics will have some of these guys trending up with the fast times and verticals.

16 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

If you're a team that would like a shifty guy, Bucky Irving from Oregon is nice.  But he's another small guy and just not someone I'm interested in. 

Bucky Wright would be a great change of pace RB.  His entire college tape is footage of a bunch of guys trying to tackle a rat.

5 minutes ago, justwinbaby said:

You should watch some Cody Schrader. Very well rounded back. Really good vision, some power, contact balance, decent hands. Pretty much does everything really well but not elite at anything. 

I did.  He's in that group of ok but not impressed. 

If they took him in like round 5 or 6 in fine with it.  I wouldn't expect him to ever be more than an RB2. If rather him as an RB3.

7 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Welp. Carter Hart is done

Is it bad that I though this was a football player that got hurt at the Senior Bowl practices until I googled :-/

37 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Again, just looking at the total number of free agents is misleading, the ones they need to re-sign are the handful I listed as everyone else wasn't really contributing to their depth that I was referring to this year. And the packers are losing the same number of starters and will need to clear space to extend anyone needed for 2025 where they are listed as only having 36 players under contract (not sure where you think they're gonna be able to clear $40M from off their books for 2024.) 

They clear $20 mil alone getting rid of bakhtiari who barely played in like 2 years. They also have guys that have restructurable contracts. Restructuring jaire, smith, jones and Kenny Clark so going to get them in the 30-40 range. I’m not worried about their cap especially cause they can afford to do restructures having $92 mil in 2025 and over 110 in 2026.  They can afford to restructure to save money. I would argue the lions have like three or four of their best players having to be paid. I don’t worry about the Packers depth as much because there are really good draft and developed. I wouldn’t worry about the lions depth except you’re bringing up the Packers you don’t trust their depth. Meanwhile, the lions are in the same boat. So if you don’t trust the Packers depth, you probably shouldn’t trust the lions either with the amount of guys that they have as free agents who are depth players 

also, I know that Jared Goff’s ceiling is what it is. In one season where Jordan Love got to play the entire year he had a season to the equivalent of Jared Goff in 2023. Their numbers are super similar (outside of overall total passing yards) and he had less talent on the oline, his best wr was hurt majority of the year, musgrave also missed weeks and Aaron jones missed majority of the season.

also pointing out, the Packers had a crap load of injuries this year. Go look at how many games the Packers had their best players miss. Alexander, Aaron Jones, Christian Watson, Romeo, Dobbs, Reed , Bakhtiari all missed a ton of games. That team likely would’ve been better if guys just stayed healthy, and yet they still managed to beat down the lions in Detroit down an entire secondary, beat down the Cowboys and nearly win a game in San Francisco if they’re kicker would’ve made a freaking field goal. Lions had Montgomery miss extended time which worked out for them cause it forced them to use Gibbs. Add on CJGJ missing time actually helped cause he wasn’t very good  

I will make you a bet with our avatars that the Packers win the division next year. only caveat is if Goff or love get hurt it’s void. Cause it’s based on for me love takes another massive step in his development and if Goff or love gets hurt they are likely finishing last. Let me add to that not like if they get hurt in like week 16 and like the lions are up by three games in the division. At that point I’ll just say you won that bet.