27 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yes, borderline top 5... mostly top 10.  Never top 3, which plenty of people said.

Yup. There were people on here that said, only Kelce and Kittle were front of him. And that he was going to surpass kittle. I like goedert, but let’s be realistic, I don’t think he’s gotten better over time. I think he’s pretty much been the same player we’ve seen over the last couple years. Whatever everybody saw Sam Laporta do this year is what people thought Dallas goedert would ultimately be then make another jump from there. I don’t think he’s ever made that jump. I think he was borderline top five and now I would put him roughly around probably eight behind kittle, kelce, andrews, hockenson, Laporta. I’d make the argument 2 of the 3 of Ferguson, engram and McBride have passed him. 

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Eagles had prime Celek and drafted and developed Ertz to eventually take over. They had prime Ertz and drafted Goedert to develop and eventually take over. I don't see what's ridiculous about brining in a better prospect than Jack Stoll to develop especially since Goedert is already 29. 

There's nothing wrong with that thinking. but that's not what is implied by saying. We need to bring in someone to compete with him.

Obviously we need a TE2. 

As if there wasn't enough reason not to watch the Super Bowl this year, the league chose Bill Vinovich to referee.  Yikes.

8 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Yup. There were people on here that said, only Kelce and Kittle were front of him. And that he was going to surpass kittle. I like goedert, but let’s be realistic, I don’t think he’s gotten better over time. I think he’s pretty much been the same player we’ve seen over the last couple years. Whatever everybody saw Sam Laporta do this year is what people thought Dallas goedert would ultimately be one. I don’t think he’s ever made that jump. I think he was borderline top five and now I would put him roughly around probably eight behind kittle, kelce, andrews, hockenson, Laporta. I’d make the argument 2 of the 3 of Ferguson, engram and McBride have passed him. 

I think Goedert is absolutely capable of doing what LaPorta does for Detroit. The difference being Johnson is a much better game-planner schemer than Johnson/Siri is. At some point it knocks Goedert because you can only go off of production when comparing guys, but I still think he's capable of much more other than catching screen passes for 50% of his targets. 

37 minutes ago, Swoop said:

I guess you haven't paid attention, but there were posters saying he was third behind Kelce and Kittle as recently as a year or two ago.

Again, using his stats isn't to show that he's terrible. It's to point out that his production for his career, in large, isn't anything special. That doesn't mean terrible. People tend to get the two confused or use overrated as a means of saying garbage. That is not what I'm saying.

He's a solid TE who's getting up their in age. Certainly not irreplaceable.

I'm not disagreeing there at all. What I disagree with is how he's somehow all of a sudden perceived as overrated or the most overrated Eagles player. Especially when you have people arguing for Gainwell to be the lead back and how hes significantly better than Sanders was. I'm not in favor of spending a high draft resource on a TE when there are many other needs for this team.

6 minutes ago, BDawk_ASamuel said:

I think Goedert is absolutely capable of doing what LaPorta does for Detroit. The difference being Johnson is a much better game-planner schemer than Johnson/Siri is. At some point it knocks Goedert because you can only go off of production when comparing guys, but I still think he's capable of much more other than catching screen passes for 50% of his targets. 

I would point out Sam Laporta doing what he was doing as a rookie makes his impressive. It’s the same with Kyle Pitts having his 1000 yard year as a rookie. I look at Dallas this way, you can scheme him open more and he’ll have more production. But I don’t think he was ever capable of being the second best tight end behind Travis kelce. I think Andrews, kelce, kittle are better than goedert. I tend to think Laporta is also likely going to make a jump and just be better. And there were definitely people on this board who said he was third behind those two and he was going to make the jump and pass Kittle over the next couple years (this is when Gronk was still playing— who missed an entire year and likely has more production if godwin and Evans weren’t on the Bucs) 

22 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Sinnott

Lachey

Spann-Ford

3 TEs I like 

I also like Dallin Holker from CO State.

13 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

There's nothing wrong with that thinking. but that's not what is implied by saying. We need to bring in someone to compete with him.

Obviously we need a TE2. 

I don't know how else bring in someone to compete can be interpreted. You are adding a talented player to the room, and whoever is performing at a higher level and executing, plays more. That's competing. I wouldn't expect them to sign a FA or trade someone that is going to make Goedert expendable instantly. So you are likely going to have someone that is pushing Goedert and if all goes to plan, eventually overtakes him at some point. 

20 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

There's nothing wrong with that thinking. but that's not what is implied by saying. We need to bring in someone to compete with him.

Obviously we need a TE2. 

Why would we care if the TE we brought in competed with Goedert?  I’d be completely ok with a new TE outplaying him.  Or one that at least plays like him but doesn’t miss 11 starts in 3 years.  Availability counts for something too

5 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I don't know how else bring in someone to compete can be interpreted. You are adding a talented player to the room, and whoever is performing at a higher level and executing, plays more. That's competing. I wouldn't expect them to sign a FA or trade someone that is going to make Goedert expendable instantly. So you are likely going to have someone that is pushing Goedert and if all goes to plan, eventually overtakes him at some point. 

Being realistic Dallas goedert’s likely departure is probably at the end of 2025. At the end of 2025 he is going to have a cap number of $23.8 million. In dead money it’s only 5.9 million to cut him. And they save 17.9 mil if they cut him. He’s going to be 31 at that point. (And if you are paying brown and smith then I’m guessing he’s the sacrifice that gets made and they go young.) That’s roughly around the same time they were kind of like ertz, we really don’t want to pay you as much as you think you’re worth at 31 years old going forward. I’ve tend to believe either this draft or next draft they’re going to draft a kid who’s going to be his long-term replacement.  With the amount of injuries that he sustained (his fault or not) i don’t see him getting another contract unless it’s really team friendly.  

5 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I don't know how else bring in someone to compete can be interpreted. You are adding a talented player to the room, and whoever is performing at a higher level and executing, plays more. That's competing. I wouldn't expect them to sign a FA or trade someone that is going to make Goedert expendable instantly. So you are likely going to have someone that is pushing Goedert and if all goes to plan, eventually overtakes him at some point. 

It implies that he hasnt played well enough as a starter and needs competition to push him to be better. Hes an above average starter that doesnt need replacing.

Bring in a TE 2 who hopefully eventually takes over is a completely different idea, and one that makes sense.

19 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I would point out Sam Laporta doing what he was doing as a rookie makes his impressive. It’s the same with Kyle Pitts having his 1000 yard year as a rookie. I look at Dallas this way, you can scheme him open more and he’ll have more production. But I don’t think he was ever capable of being the second best tight end behind Travis kelce. I think Andrews, kelce, kittle are better than goedert. I tend to think Laporta is also likely going to make a jump and just be better. And there were definitely people on this board who said he was third behind those two and he was going to make the jump and pass Kittle over the next couple years (this is when Gronk was still playing— who missed an entire year and likely has more production if godwin and Evans weren’t on the Bucs) 

Njoku, Hockenson, Engram should go on the list ahead of Goedert. Pitts and McBride as an asset I would value higher. Should be looking for his replacement, it’s not like he’s going to get better the older he gets. He has 2 years left with a break even option for the 2nd year.

6 minutes ago, McMVP said:

Why would we care if the TE we brought in competed with Goedert?  I’d be completely ok with a new TE outplaying him.  Or one that at least plays like him but doesn’t miss 11 starts in 3 years.  Availability counts for something too

We wouldnt care. But its moving the goal posts and playing a semantics game. It was a dumb thing to say in the beginning. If it was meant differently than the OP can say that, and clarify rather than backing off and pretending he implied something else. Now we went from a ridiculous idea, to a ridiculous discussion.

I think everyone agrees we can look for a good TE 2, and we would all be happy if that guy can be the future at the position when Goedert is gone, or done here. Thats all.

34 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yes, borderline top 5... mostly top 10.  Never top 3, which plenty of people said.

It depends on how much you value blocking. It doesn’t seem like you do based on including a dude like Engram. Unless you’re just box score scouting. But then that’s double counting injuries against Goedert. He’s a much better player than Engram. 

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

It depends on how much you value blocking. It doesn’t seem like you do based on including a dude like Engram. Unless you’re just box score scouting. But then that’s double counting injuries against Goedert. He’s a much better player than Engram. 

He can block for the 10x we run a game. Lol

3 minutes ago, GoEagles614 said:

Njoku, Hockenson, Engram should go on the list ahead of Goedert. Pitts and McBride as an asset I would value higher. 

Hell no on Engram. Gross. Njoku, yeah, he put it all together this year. He’s really good. 

I'm a big fan of Goedert. I think the guy is a stud. If he was in a TE centric offense that was weak at WR the dude would put up 1k per season.

Just now, GoEagles614 said:

Njoku, Hockenson, Engram should go on the list ahead of Goedert. Pitts and McBride as an asset I would value higher. 

I would have these guys ahead of him for sure  

kelce, kittle, andrews, hockenson, Laporta, engram (people overlook engram but his last two years in Jacksonville he’s been good)

debatable guys

Mcbride, Ferguson, njoku, Pitts (i actually think getting away from Arthur smith helps his case). 

njoku had a better 2023 then goedert but goedert the previous 3 years was better. I think they’d be in the same category for me. Njoku in his career has also had some injury seasons  

 

 

Look what Kellen Moore could do with an average talent like Schultz, who didn’t really beat man coverage but could destroy zones because of the scheme and his feel (plus Dak loves throwing to the TE). Prime Goedert, who was a top three TE in terms of yards per route run) would have crushed in that scheme. He’s third in the pecking order now and doesn’t play with a great pocket passer so he won’t put up monster stats, but his job should be pretty easy now. 

7 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Hell no on Engram. Gross. Njoku, yeah, he put it all together this year. He’s really good. 

Goedert is a superior blocker. However engram had made a big jump as a pass catcher in Jacksonville. Engram was viewed as a first round talent cause of his ability to receive. The giants just were awful at maximizing it and he just wasn’t good there. He’s been really good as a receiving threat for the jags. He’s finished 4th in TE receiving yards and 3rd in receptions in 2022. He was 1st in receptions and 3rd in yards in 2023. People railed ertz for not being a good blocker but he was still widely considered a top 5 tight end 

I think people still view Evan engram in the lights of what he was with the giants, and not what he’s been the last two years with Jacksonville. You can make the case that Doug has managed to make him into what Zach Ertz was here. I don’t think he’s as good as Zach Ertz, but that’s essentially what he is in that offense. And they have multiple weapons in that offense in Ridley, Kirk, jones and etienne 

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I would have these guys ahead of him for sure  

kelce, kittle, andrews, hockenson, Laporta, engram (people overlook engram but his last two years in Jacksonville he’s been good)

debatable guys

Mcbride, Ferguson, njoku, Pitts (i actually think getting away from Arthur smith helps his case). 

njoku had a better 2023 then goedert but goedert the previous 3 years was better. I think they’d be in the same category for me. Njoku in his career has also had some injury seasons  

 

 

No. Engram is an empty calorie stat padder. Crossing route after crossing route in a meh passing attack. 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Goedert is a superior blocker. However engram had made a big jump as a pass catcher in Jacksonville. Engram was viewed as a first round talent cause of his ability to receive. The giants just were awful at maximizing it and he just wasn’t good there. He’s been really good as a receiving threat for the jags. He’s finished 4th in TE receiving yards and 3rd in receptions in 2022. He was 1st in receptions and 3rd in yards in 2023. People railed ertz for not being a good blocker but he was still widely considered a top 5 tight end  

See above. Also, Ertz was the centerpiece, not a piece. 

13 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

Here's where I differ to you. The value you are missing is the insurance policy (like a back-up QB).

Because this offence is so reliant on the big 3 (and particularly on Brown and Smith), one injury to either of the two completely sinks this offence. Like they can't move the ball and become so easy to defend as its a one-dimensional attack. We saw this in the Buccs game. Now that doesn't need to be Boyd or someone on a big contract but the drop-off level can't be OZ, Julio and Quez. Cheap but still functional FA (Wilson) and a mid round pick would work. It will also make the offence as a whole and the Big 3 more dangerous  having another reliable target.

I don't think it was the onfiled talent that kept them from functioning against the Bucs.  They couldn't handle blitzes.  They had poor answers for simple coverage schemes.  The route concepts were too simple.  They have a talented receiver in the backfield they did not utilize.  They over use a mediocre RB in Gainwell.  

To me, it's a question of resources.  They are top heavy at WR.  Investing FA dollars in the WR position or a top 100 pick vs. signing a higher priced starter at another position of need has an easy answer.  

8 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Look what Kellen Moore could do with an average talent like Schultz, who didn’t really beat man coverage but could destroy zones because of the scheme and his feel (plus Dak loves throwing to the TE). Prime Goedert, who was a top three TE in terms of yards per route run) would have crushed in that scheme. He’s third in the pecking order now and doesn’t play with a great pocket passer so he won’t put up monster stats, but his job should be pretty easy now. 

Hurts is better as a pocket passer than passing from anywhere else. Goedert's issue currently is not playing with a good pocket passer. And I dont think he was asked to run the same kind of routes that he used to, for much of this season either. Almost all of his targets were at or behind the LOS on screens of some little pass out in to the flats. 

12 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

See above. Also, Ertz was the centerpiece, not a piece. 

You can make any excuses you want you don’t finish top 5 consecutive years for the tight end position in receiving yards and receptions just being a stat padder. They had other weapons on that Jacksonville offense that he had to compete with.

I think you’re viewing this like he still the **** player he was with the Giants and not actually what he was with Jacksonville. He is 100% better with Doug that he ever was with the Giants. Ingram’s always had the talent to be a really good receiving tight end. It’s why he went in the first round. Just saying engram since 2020 has finished top 5 in receptions for a tight end 3 times and top 5 receiving yards for a tight end 2 times (would’ve been 3 if not for like 40 yards).

Also goedert last 4 years missed 15 games. Meanwhile engram had missed 2 and none the last 2 years. That matters