2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Disrupting any timing patterns between QB and WR is almost always the best defense….if you can recover afterwards for whatever happens. As a CB if you can jam the receiver and he still isn’t a threat to beat you over the top…BOOM! If he’s much faster than you and your jam isn’t fantastic…your toast!

Yep conversely if you lay off you are letting them control the game with constant first downs and killing the clock. So pick your poison. If you have decent CB's there is no reason for the pic above.and BTW I dont care how good your corner is. if I can get him to commit to the inside curl I will turn out for a TD

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Disrupting any timing patterns between QB and WR is almost always the best defense….if you can recover afterwards for whatever happens. As a CB if you can jam the receiver and he still isn’t a threat to beat you over the top…BOOM! If he’s much faster than you and your jam isn’t fantastic…your toast!

Or how about a simple concept of not starting out 5 yards behind the 1st down marker...and running backwards?

29 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

OMG just the TE position ALONE is so much more advanced than when I played. College guys coming out are "NFL ready". Just learn the speed of the game and you are fine. yes it's more complicated,but you are also better prepared than ever

Bellicheat stated he’s only ever seen one player NFL ready day one…LT

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Or how about a simple concept of not starting out 5 yards behind the 1st down marker...and running backwards?

Idk... it's 3rd and 5...I'm not lining up 10 yards back...I'll be at the marker at least.

3rd and 8...I'm not lining up 12 yards off the ball. 

Doesn't have to be man to man bump and run.   Just can't give the easy pitch and catch in 2024 ...players too skilled today.

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Bellicheat stated he’s only ever seen one player NFL ready day one…LT

He must have missed Reggie White's first game?

If I wanted to use Coop,I would make him man press with a S behind in the event he somehow got around him. OR you can let Slay press with Coop behind. if the reciever gets by those 2 the play is already over,so in those examples Coop is a CB or S

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Bellicheat stated he’s only ever seen one player NFL ready day one…LT

My fav player,but so long ago.Look at college QB's now.They are ready to roll. Just need to learn the speed and pick it up. Of course they need weaponry but guys like Lawrence were good to go on day 1. Marvin harrison will be ready to go and you've seen Dejean cover him already(ready to go)

31 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

So let me ask you. On 4th downs or 3rd and inches the defenses did not know we would run the tush push?? They knew we were and could not stop it. That is execution not play calling

That was the exact example I used to support your case. But the only one. Well unless you count field goals and punts. 

Just now, GreenbleedinNC said:

My fav player,but so long ago.Look at college QB's now.They are ready to roll. Just need to learn the speed and pick it up. Of course they need weaponry but guys like Lawrence were good to go on day 1. Marvin harrison will be ready to go and you've seen Dejean cover him already(ready to go). The rookie RB set rookie records year 1(Richardson I believe?

 

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

He must have missed Reggie White's first game?

But he was busy coaching the Giants defense...missed Reggie dominate that day.   Only 10 tackles and 2 and a half sacks...etc.  probably wasn't ready yet though?

 

34 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

So if I can run a B gap RB for 12 yards EVERY TIME and you can't stop me why would I need 27 other plays?

I keep agreeing with if you can smash mouth bully run the ball down the opponents throw? That works on all levels of football.

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

That was the exact example I used to support your case. But the only one. Well unless you count field goals and punts. 

Well it's 1 play, just showing you that regardless if they know or not,if you execute it doesnt mater if they know or not. I;m not in dreamland where every play works every time,but you need to fin the ones you can do well

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

I keep agreeing with if you can smash mouth bully run the ball down the opponents throw? That works on all levels of football.

Pretty much rewatch the Cards against our D…I’d slap a laughing emoji but it was far from funny to me…painful

4 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I keep agreeing with if you can smash mouth bully run the ball down the opponents throw? That works on all levels of football.

Right we ran the tush push all year because no on could stop it. That is until it was stopped in TB. Same play,lack of execution

35 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Let him cover all 3.He has to learn NFL speed first off. Usually that is what surprises college guys the most is how much faster things happen. Maybe we use Dejean differently depending on who we play. If their WR;s are not top rate we can play him where we think he can be the most effective.he is not going to match speed with Lamb,but you want him out there anyhow?

I actually was thinking he could matchup pretty decently with Lamb. Which says so much. Top WR in the league last year. Ceedee brings a difficult combination to deal with. All depends on whether you believe DeJean is an elite CB. Or is he an elite S? Or is he just good at all of them master of none? But outside CB that travels with the top WR1 is top position of priority to me. Deion Sanders is a more important player for my D than Troy Palumalu(whichever top S you wish).

6 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I keep agreeing with if you can smash mouth bully run the ball down the opponents throw? That works on all levels of football.

My complain is when we keep running plays we SUCK at over and over and they fail over and over. That is bad play AND bad execution. So you either figure out how to execute that play or you toss it in the bin and find something else

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I actually was thinking he could matchup pretty decently with Lamb. Which says so much. Top WR in the league last year. Ceedee brings a difficult combination to deal with. All depends on whether you believe DeJean is an elite CB. Or is he an elite S? Or is he just good at all of them master of none? But outside CB that travels with the top WR1 is top position of priority to me. Deion Sanders is a more important player for my D than Troy Palumalu(whichever top S you wish).

I would think with Mitchels speed he would be the cover on Lamb. Why not try that Mitchell on Lamb with Coop as a FS? Now you got a DT on their #1. he cant outrun Mitchell and he is running headlong into Coop. How can you make a play that way?

Just now, GreenbleedinNC said:

I would think with Mitchels speed he would be the cover on Lamb. Why not try that Mitchell on Lamb with Coop as a FS? Now you got a DT on their #1. he cant outrun Mitchell and he is running headlong into Coop. How can you make a play that way?

Of course we have other guys too I was just using them as a future example

39 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I get a simple answer there.   Mitchell in competition with Bradberry.  The goal is to get him ready to take over for Bradberry...yesterday!   That's priority. 

I take nothing else from that statement. 

I would think someone like yourself who drools over those old school shut down CBs ...would see it the same way.

But... if anyone is to make something more ...lol.

But seriously...that's all it seems. We should all be on board with that.

I’m all about just hyper focusing Quinyon on outside CB. No sloppy habits forming. Just fully develop that one position with all the multiple roles that it entails. But I’m not likely to be ready to have him in Bump and Run coverage week one. Think he’ll be absolutely fantastic at it once he learns it. Hopefully become his main weapon of choice. But to start I’d be teaching him the techniques and rules of Off coverage Man and the different Zones.

 Not even dabbling having him travel with top WR into the slot until he has a very solid grasp on executing all these parts of the outside CB job.

3 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I would think with Mitchels speed he would be the cover on Lamb. Why not try that Mitchell on Lamb with Coop as a FS? Now you got a DT on their #1. he cant outrun Mitchell and he is running headlong into Coop. How can you make a play that way?

Boom-shut down

43 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Let's see if he can cover our new slot guy. 1 on 1 college guy on college guy. I would do that first. Let him cover A smiths slot routes,let A Smith play out just for fun at camp and let him cover that. Besides the speed he needs to learn different receivers. I'm sure that was somewhat limited in Iowa

I view slot pass coverage as potentially  DeJeans toughest job to handle. I keep coming back to all these scouts weakness consensus on him as lacking fabulous hip fluidity. But you start DeJean in the slot nickel CB.

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I’m all about just hyper focusing Quinyon on outside CB. No sloppy habits forming. Just fully develop that one position with all the multiple roles that it entails. But I’m not likely to be ready to have him in Bump and Run coverage week one. Think he’ll be absolutely fantastic at it once he learns it. Hopefully become his main weapon of choice. But to start I’d be teaching him the techniques and rules of Off coverage Man and the different Zones.

 Not even dabbling having him travel with top WR into the slot until he has a very solid grasp on executing all these parts of the outside CB job.

He has Slay and Bradberry to teach him. I think you will be pleasnatly shocked and how well he can cover the Smiths. AJ would be more of a problem due the weight and physicaity of AJ. That is where Coop comes in,but yeah let him play the bet we have. if someone goes down he is ready to face the best. Neither are round 5 development guys,they are ready to roll

5 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I view slot pass coverage as potentially  DeJeans toughest job to handle. I keep coming back to all these scouts weakness consensus on him as lacking fabulous hip fluidity. But you start DeJean in the slot nickel CB.

Im going back to my example of guys laying off(aka advantage receiver). In this case DJ's best spot would be at S because at the attack point(or lack thereof) the reciver has now committed to the route and a S would understand where he is going. There is no need for a hip flip coming in from a 90 angle or a frontal. Your hips are already where they need to be. So possible as a S between the 20's and blanket CB in the RZ(as the vid vs harrison shows). We can use him both ways in the same game 

45 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Combo must be taken into consideration.  I mean....let me ask you... don't you think Mitchell was selected because he could be the shutdown outside guy.

And the allure of Dejean is his versatility?

What was the viewpoint? To me I prioritize outside CB. Highest grade goes if he can do that. Then grade up or down if he can travel to the slot ,usually thinking with a specific WR that day. If Revis was good at S did you care? So if he’s best at being a great S that’s fantastic…but not the same.

  How much can you put on a rookies plate realistically before you’ve just flooded a super talented athlete and are screwing him up? 
 DeJean jobs:

P returner? Yes

KO returner? Yes.

ST P gunner? Yes

thats more than we have valued Covey for just right there. So how much more we adding to his plate? And what is chosen? I think it very much matters. 

 

3 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Im going back to my example of guys laying off(aka advantage receiver). In this case DJ's best spot would be at S because at the attack point(or lack thereof) the reciver has now committed to the route and a S would understand where he is going. There is no need for a hip flip coming in from a 90 angle or a frontal. Your hips are already where they need to be. So possible as a S between the 20's and blanket CB in the RZ(as the vid vs harrison shows). We can use him both ways in the same game 

Even if the receiver fakes out the CB,the S already has a bead on the route locked in. Do you see what I mean?