1 hour ago, NCiggles said:

That's a fair point.  His arm could be toast.  My point was really just that he's more proven than any other QB in that division.  

As much as I don't like Cam, and I think the fan base down here overrates him to a ridiculous extent, I think he was a good QB when healthy.  It's hard to compare him to the other QBs of the decade, because I truly don't think we will ever see a QB like Cam ever again.  If not for his threat as a runner, this isn't even a conversation.  His combination of size, strength, speed, and overall athleticism will never be duplicated at the position, and the fact that he stayed healthy for as long as he did was incredible.  That dude took an absolute beating every week.  

God help us all if someone does come along with his athletic measurables and can actually throw the football and go through progressions.  

33 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Really?  How did getting rid of DeSean and Shady work out?  

You want to keep play makers.

Pretty well seeing as they won the super bowl a few years later.😉

1 minute ago, Utebird said:

Pretty well seeing as they won the super bowl a few years later.😉

So if we dump Ertz after next season and we're sure to have another parade in 2025?

7 minutes ago, hputenis said:

I don't think these 2 are on the same level.  It's Kittle, Kelce, and everyone else waaaay down as far as being a complete TE.  

Kelce doesnt block either.

Kittle is a a rarity in todays football of a TE that is a good receiver and blocker.

Gronk used to be the rarity he was a beast as a blocker and as a receiver elite but who knows what he is now. Well see but for now kittle is the most complete TE in the league.

I think goedert could be in that moldif he played more as hes a pretty good blocker. Ertz is an elite receiver but as a blocker hes a smidge above useless.

1 minute ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

So if we dump Ertz after next season and we're sure to have another parade in 2025?

Sounds like a plan No?😊

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

True but I do think Zach Ertz is more likely to age more gracefully then kittle and kelce. Both of those guys take a lot of hits That ertz for the better part of his career has avoided besides the kidney shot because he's kind of a wuss. 

Added to your post 😂 

I should probably add that if the Eagles did extend Ertz to some sort of a discount, then I would not be upset at all.  I know the value he brings to this offense.  I think Goedert is going to be something special.  I just hope it isn't for another team.  

2 minutes ago, hputenis said:

As much as I don't like Cam, and I think the fan base down here overrates him to a ridiculous extent, I think he was a good QB when healthy.  It's hard to compare him to the other QBs of the decade, because I truly don't think we will ever see a QB like Cam ever again.  If not for his threat as a runner, this isn't even a conversation.  His combination of size, strength, speed, and overall athleticism will never be duplicated at the position, and the fact that he stayed healthy for as long as he did was incredible.  That dude took an absolute beating every week.  

God help us all if someone does come along with his athletic measurables and can actually throw the football and go through progressions.  

My biggest problem with cam is he never learned how to be a better passer. He had all the physical talent in the world to be a great quarterback. However I look at him and say if you applied your talent with reading defenses and becoming a better passer you would’ve been no denying it a top-five player of the decade. When you look at his numbers his completion percentage was always below 60 outside of an outlier year. I get some of his career he did not have great wide receivers but I think he relied on just pure athleticism and talent alone. Because I really never saw massive improvements as a passer. His rookie year I thought he was going to be one of the greats if he developed as a passer. I feel like he never took a big enough leap as a passer

10 minutes ago, hputenis said:

Added to your post 😂 

I should probably add that if the Eagles did extend Ertz to some sort of a discount, then I would not be upset at all.  I know the value he brings to this offense.  I think Goedert is going to be something special.  I just hope it isn't for another team.  

On the old board we had this conversation. Not you and I but we had this I want to say right after the season ended. If I’m Dallas Goedert do i want to sign an extension here if ertz signs an extension as well? I couldn’t tell you that answer but my line of thinking would be I can’t sign a contract extension till after this year anyways. If I’m one year away from free agency I might want to just go and test the market and see what I can get on the market knowing Ertz is still going to be the number one guy (if ertz extends) until he declines which might not be for another two years. Additionally he might want to be the number one tight end/bigger option and he could do that somewhere else that’s also going to pay him when he hits the market.

Now the opposite is he might love playing in Philadelphia and wants to play his career here and doesn’t mind playing with Zach Ertz and eventually taking the baton from Zach when he begins to decline and he also gets a bigger role from the eagles regardless.

What was also mentioned when talking about this is, it’s almost a given Jeffrey and desean are likely gone next year. So when they are off the books after the dead money in 2021 you’re really not going to be paying your wide receivers a ton of money. You’re paying Jj, Ward, reagor, hightower and Watkins in 2022 which isn’t much. Maybe how the Eagles are thinking is we can overpay at tight end for a couple of season because our wide receivers are getting paid so little because they’re all basically on rookie contracts. However the hole in this is if your young wide receivers just aren’t very good and forced to go to FA to get a high priced receiver.  

28 minutes ago, hputenis said:

I don't think these 2 are on the same level.  It's Kittle, Kelce, and everyone else waaaay down as far as being a complete TE.  

Ertz is the second tier after Kelce/Kittle. I was just curious if the gap from Ertz to Kelce is wide enough to warrant extending a TE whose contract was up when he’s 33 and now until 37. The general opinion seems to be the Chiefs did a good move, and I’m kinda surprised no one is bringing it up.

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

My biggest problem with cam is he never learned how to be a better passer. He had all the physical talent in the world to be a great quarterback. However I look at him and say if you applied your talent with reading defenses and becoming a better passer you would’ve been no denying it a top-five player of the decade. When you look at his numbers his completion percentage was always below 60 outside of an outlier year. I get some of his career he did not have great wide receivers but I think he relied on just pure athleticism and talent alone. Because I really never saw massive improvements as a passer. His rookie year I thought he was going to be one of the greats if he developed as a passer. I feel like he never took a big enough leap as a passer

I love talking about this topic.  It's the double-edged sword for all superior athletes in professional sports, ESPECIALLY at the QB position.  Cam never needed to study defenses and quickly go through progressions as a passer his entire life (unlike Manning, Brady, Rivers, etc) including when he came into the league.  He was ridiculous his rookie year.  I think he threw for over 4,000 yards.  If he could have somehow found a balance between his athletic ability and his job as a passer, he may have stayed healthy.  Peyton, Brady, and Rivers had no choice but to get rid of the ball quickly, so they dedicated their lives to mastering NFL defenses, how to manipulate them, and how to throw their receivers open.  Other athletes that suffer from the curse of crazy athleticism:

Ben Simmons - coddled his entire life, always told he was the best, and doesn't think he needs to shoot.  

Michael Vick - didn't even study his playbook in Atlanta.  Relied on his speed.  

And to a much lesser extent than those 2.......Carson Wentz - Carson is a great athlete for his size, and he uses this to his advantage to extend plays.  However, it has gotten him in trouble with the obvious big hits he has taken the last few years.  

 

11 minutes ago, hputenis said:

I love talking about this topic.  It's the double-edged sword for all superior athletes in professional sports, ESPECIALLY at the QB position.  Cam never needed to study defenses and quickly go through progressions as a passer his entire life (unlike Manning, Brady, Rivers, etc) including when he came into the league.  He was ridiculous his rookie year.  I think he threw for over 4,000 yards.  If he could have somehow found a balance between his athletic ability and his job as a passer, he may have stayed healthy.  Peyton, Brady, and Rivers had no choice but to get rid of the ball quickly, so they dedicated their lives to mastering NFL defenses, how to manipulate them, and how to throw their receivers open.  Other athletes that suffer from the curse of crazy athleticism:

Ben Simmons - coddled his entire life, always told he was the best, and doesn't think he needs to shoot.  

Michael Vick - didn't even study his playbook in Atlanta.  Relied on his speed.  

And to a much lesser extent than those 2.......Carson Wentz - Carson is a great athlete for his size, and he uses this to his advantage to extend plays.  However, it has gotten him in trouble with the obvious big hits he has taken the last few years.  

 

Oh i 100 percent agree with you. It’s not just cam. It’s what i ultimately worry about with Lamar jackson as well. Vick waited way too long to start doing t and wasted prime years of his career.

Honestly it is what makes mahomes so great is he’s using his athleticism but he’s started reading defenses And actually becoming a student of the game. It’s why i thought he’s made the jump he has from Texas tech mahomes to super bowl champion mahomes.  Reid and he are a perfect marriage. I think mahomes needed reid To get that ingrained in him to help him understand how he could become great and reid needed a talented player like that who’d work to improve on all aspect. I think mahomes has that factor where he knows he can win with athleticism right now but eventually he had to get better in other areas like reading defenses to be one of the best of his generation. 

I think wentz is more of a student of the game then cam And the others you mentioned. Wentz reminds a little of big Ben in That big Ben in his early stages of his career would use his athleticism more along with his arm. as he got older and some of that athleticism declined Due to age and wear and tear he became a much better passer. Granted Big Ben has always had really good weapons so that plays into it but I can see Carson as he gets older realizing I don’t have the same athleticism anymore I have to even become better as a passer. He’s that type of guy imo. 
 

 

And there you go. He’s not seeing $15M at 35 and $17.5M at 36. That’s a big chunk of fluff. Ertz with fluff could be around the same APY but realistically I think he would take home $10 or less.

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

And there you go. He’s not seeing $15M at 36 and $17.5M at 37. That’s a big chunk of fluff. Ertz with fluff could be around the same APY but realistically I think he would take home $10 or less.

Wasn't he already offered more than that last year and turned it down?  

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

And there you go. He’s not seeing $15M at 36 and $17.5M at 37. That’s a big chunk of fluff. Ertz with fluff could be around the same APY but realistically I think he would take home $10 or less.

If they do it, I really hope they get it done now. you want most of that guaranteed money in the first three years (two Already existing years and first year the extension kicks in) when he still in his prime. So that the last three years there’s a minimal dead money In each of those years when you are likely to release him in one of those years 

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Oh i 100 percent agree with you. It’s not just cam. It’s what i ultimately worry about with Lamar jackson as well. Vick waited way too long to start doing t and wasted prime years of his career.

Honestly it is what makes mahomes so great is he’s using his athleticism but he’s started reading defenses And actually becoming a student of the game. It’s why i thought he’s made the jump he has from Texas tech mahomes to super bowl champion mahomes.  Reid and he are a perfect marriage. I think mahomes needed reid To get that ingrained in him to help him understand how he could become great and reid needed a talented player like that who’d work to improve on all aspect. I think mahomes has that factor where he knows he can win with athleticism right now but eventually he had to get better in other areas like reading defenses to be one of the best of his generation. 

I think wentz is more of a student of the game then cam And the others you mentioned. Wentz reminds a little of big Ben in That big Ben in his early stages of his career would use his athleticism more along with his arm. as he got older and some of that athleticism declined Due to age and wear and tear he became a much better passer. Granted Big Ben has always had really good weapons so that plays into it but I can see Carson as he gets older realizing I don’t have the same athleticism anymore I have to even become better as a passer. He’s that type of guy imo. 
 

 

That dude is tiny.  And I watched him get smashed a few times last year instead of going out of bounds.  His size will not sustain that kind of beating, and I feel like it's been proven time and time and time again.  

Mahommes is a great example of someone with the perfect balance.  He's athletic enough to extend plays and run for 1st downs, but he would never choose to do that instead of utilizing his greatest strength (his arm) to throw to an open receiver.  He's obviously already scary.  I'm not looking forward to a time where he masters his ability to read NFL defenses.  

Just now, hputenis said:

That dude is tiny.  And I watched him get smashed a few times last year instead of going out of bounds.  His size will not sustain that kind of beating, and I feel like it's been proven time and time and time again.  

Mahommes is a great example of someone with the perfect balance.  He's athletic enough to extend plays and run for 1st downs, but he would never choose to do that instead of utilizing his greatest strength (his arm) to throw to an open receiver.  He's obviously already scary.  I'm not looking forward to a time where he masters his ability to read NFL defenses.  

What’s as amazing is lamar’s number one wide receiver Hollywood Brown played at like 157 last year. Added 23 pounds this year. curious to see how brown looks adding 23 pounds in one off season

25 minutes ago, Green Dog said:

Kind of have to hope he gives the Eagles a discount.  I don't want to be that guy, but I'd rather keep him if at all possible.  It's one of those things where we've gotten so used to his level of play, it's going to be noticeable when he's gone.  Until Carson finds another trustworthy target, of course.  Def not a given though.

Even if Ertz gives you a discount do you want to pay him $10 million per year and Goedert possibly more?  Let's not sleep on the fact that this is also a road map to what DG is going to get paid.  Look what Big V got paid based on his potential to be a starter.  Goedert has top 5 tight end potential.  Big V is an average/below average tackle.  Goedert is going to get a hefty hefty contract.  I think he easily will command $13 million.

They are already in cap hell.  Having 2 top tight ends is a luxury they can't afford.  We all saw the article about how low the Eagles rank with talent under 25.  You don't pay a tight end on the backside of his career top flight money.  Especially when you have his replacement on the team. 

The Eagles can ill afford to make an emotional decision here.  They are going to have to replace a lot of players soon.

 

Outside of Lane Johnson, already 30 but hoping has another 5-7 solid years, who on the O- line moving forward are you confident in?

Dillard is a huge question mark.  Seumalo is average and replaceable.  Kelce is a threat to retire every year.  Brandon Brooks is now coming off 2 torn Achilles and a shoulder injury and JP is here because of that.  

You might have to replace your LG, C, RG over the next 2 off-seasons.

At WR, assume DJack and Alshon are gone after this year.  The only player I'm confident in is Greg Ward who half the board hates.  Reagor, Watkins and Hightower are all unknowns.  I hope al 3 develop. Then there is JJAW.   The Eagles either have their next 5 years of WR on the team or they have to replace 2-3 of them in  a few years.  

Miles Sanders looks like the real deal at RB.  Even so, are they going to give him a second contract?  This year is huge for Boston Scott and Corey Clement to show they can carry the load behind him.  Are they JAGs or are they part of a 3 headed monster for the next 3-4 years?

On the d-line BG is 32, Fletcher turns 30 this season, Malik is 30.  Hargrave is 27 in his prime but not exactly a young player.  Barnett is 24 and yet to hit his potential.  Vinny is a 1 year rental again and the rest of the d-line as of now are a collection of 3s and 4s.  So you're going to need a starting defensive end, potentially a new #3 DT to replace Malik and then your bench guys.

Linebacker we can all donate $10 to pay their salary. 

At corner you have Slay who is 29 and then question marks.  How long can Slay keep up top level play?  The winner of Jones/Maddox for the #2 CB shouldn't be viewed as a long term solution just a starter for this year.  NRC is here on a 1 year deal.  LeBlanc is as well.

Safety is a bunch of guys on 1-year deals with an aging injury ridden Rodney McCloud.  

Potential needs:

LG, C, RG, WR1, TE2, RB2/3, DE1, DE2, DT3, S1, S2, CB2, Slot corner, insert small speedy linebacker.

 

The bottom line is Goedert is one of the ONLY young players on the team who has proven he is worth building around.  The Eagles should be focusing on what it's going to take to keep him in Eagles green based on his potential and what he can do for this team down the road, not paying Ertz for what he's done for the Eagles in the past.  His role is only going to shrink and they have many more pressing needs.

1 hour ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Really?  How did getting rid of DeSean and Shady work out?  

You want to keep play makers.

The impulse to trade your best players is a pathological condition that besets many Eagles fans.

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

What’s as amazing is lamar’s number one wide receiver Hollywood Brown played at like 157 last year. Added 23 pounds this year. curious to see how brown looks adding 23 pounds in one off season

I heard this the other day.  I find it hard to believe that he didn't lose any speed despite gaining 23 pounds.  I don't care what his GPS tracker said that they apparently made him wear.  😂 157 has got to be the smallest player in NFL history.  I think Donnell Pumphrey weighed more than that.  

36 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

On the old board we had this conversation. Not you and I but we had this I want to say right after the season ended. If I’m Dallas Goedert do i want to sign an extension here if ertz signs an extension as well? I couldn’t tell you that answer but my line of thinking would be I can’t sign a contract extension till after this year anyways. If I’m one year away from free agency I might want to just go and test the market and see what I can get on the market knowing Ertz is still going to be the number one guy (if ertz extends) until he declines which might not be for another two years. Additionally he might want to be the number one tight end/bigger option and he could do that somewhere else that’s also going to pay him when he hits the market.

Now the opposite is he might love playing in Philadelphia and wants to play his career here and doesn’t mind playing with Zach Ertz and eventually taking the baton from Zach when he begins to decline and he also gets a bigger role from the eagles regardless.

What was also mentioned when talking about this is, it’s almost a given Jeffrey and desean are likely gone next year. So when they are off the books after the dead money in 2021 you’re really not going to be paying your wide receivers a ton of money. You’re paying Jj, Ward, reagor, hightower and Watkins in 2022 which isn’t much. Maybe how in the Eagles are taking we can overpay at tight end because our wide receivers are getting paid so little because they’re all basically on rookie contracts. However the hole in this is if your young wide receivers just aren’t very good and forced to go to FA to get a high priced receiver.  

I just made a long post about discussions we've had in the past with the future of the team.  I really think Goedert wants to get paid.  He is GOING to.  It darn well better be here.  

There are so many question marks moving forward.  Being able to pay pennies for their young WR is great...if they produce.  What if JuJu hits the market and says he wants to play with Carson?  I would much rather see them have the flexibility to sign him rather than be hampered down by a huge Ertz contract and needing to bring Goedert back.  

Howie has his work cut out for him starting with this past draft.  No more excuses, no more Joe Douglas picks.  Howie needs to make all the right calls and some are going to be tough.  He said it himself that they can't get attached and make moves based on feelings.  

1 minute ago, hputenis said:

I heard this the other day.  I find it hard to believe that he didn't lose any speed despite gaining 23 pounds.  I don't care what his GPS tracker said that they apparently made him wear.  😂 157 has got to be the smallest player in NFL history.  I think Donnell Pumphrey weighed more than that.  

Yeah when I heard he played at 157 I was shocked he made it through the year besides having just the foot problem that he had. I can’t believe he didn’t lose any speed gaining 23 pounds. I mean he had great speed anyway so even losing a fraction of it isn’t going to kill him but I’d be amazed if he’s running at the same speed at 157 as he’s running at 180 

13 minutes ago, hputenis said:

Wasn't he already offered more than that last year and turned it down?  

From what I remember there wasn’t specifics besides it was around Hoopers deal which full contract APY is slightly over $10M. But with not knowing the full deal that could mean he would only pocket like $8.5 - $9M APY. Looking at Kelces deal and assuming he doesn’t see those last two years his average is somewhere around $11M APY. Don’t see why Ertz would eclipse that, and if he gives a discount, should put him around the $10 or less area. 

8 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

The impulse to trade your best players is a pathological condition that besets many Eagles fans.

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

That’s where you and I differ.  You have expectations for this team.  I think they are 8-8.  You get what you can now.  And hope Howie doesn’t screw it up even more.   

I can’t imagine what they get for Ertz ultimately equals his value. 

12 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I just made a long post about discussions we've had in the past with the future of the team.  I really think Goedert wants to get paid.  He is GOING to.  It darn well better be here.  

There are so many question marks moving forward.  Being able to pay pennies for their young WR is great...if they produce.  What if JuJu hits the market and says he wants to play with Carson?  I would much rather see them have the flexibility to sign him rather than be hampered down by a huge Ertz contract and needing to bring Goedert back.  

Howie has his work cut out for him starting with this past draft.  No more excuses, no more Joe Douglas picks.  Howie needs to make all the right calls and some are going to be tough.  He said it himself that they can't get attached and make moves based on feelings.  

I like juju but I don’t want to pay him. I think he’s better as a slot receiver then as an outside wide receiver. If I’m going to pay a wide receiver I want an outside wide receiver ( https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2019/02/25/steelers-wr-juju-smith-schuster-dominated-in-the-slot-in-2018/). Not spending that type of money he’s likely to command on a slot wave receiver. If we are going to go out and spend big bucks on wide receiver he better be a guy that can stretch the field on the outside. I actually like Johnson on the Steelers who they drafted last year.

Well we had this conversation on the old board. I wanna say about two weeks after the season ended you and I talked about how they need to acquire more young blue chip prospects on this team so that when the core group of this current team in 2-3 years is at the end they can just have the next group replacing. At the moment it’s not particularly great. And then someone decided to be pretend like we were saying the sky was falling when we were just pointing out where the Eagles have to go and what they have to do to stay at the level they want to be at

1 hour ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Really?  How did getting rid of DeSean and Shady work out?  

You want to keep play makers.

We traded Shady for Kiko. Kiko was in the trade with Phins to move down which lead to a move down to get Wentz. No Wentz, no SB in 2017. So it did work out well. 

Djax could have went either way as we had Alshon instead with that cap number so was a wash in production.