2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Reagor Goedert Ertz Jackson

Assuming we haven't already traded Ertz.

55 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Because he didn’t really beat man coverage. He caught a bunch of passes vs soft zone coverage and slant-flat combo vs linebackers. His one long catch was because of a coverage bust. 

I rewatched him this offseason. He didn’t do anything that made me feel like he should be a top three WR on a good offense. He should be depth and a special teamer based on what I saw a year ago. 

That’s fair. I saw him beat some man.  That will depend some on who is opposite him. When he was playing with a quitting Agholor, then Burnett, Davis, and Perkins, he wasn’t going to see a lot of speed threat yet he did better than them by far.  70% catch rate.  Only RBs were better.  Played both X and slot.  

So, my concern with all the rookies is catching the ball.  All had some drops in college. Do I hope that Reagor sees time on the field?  Of course.  Ideally, JJAW shows he can play the X and DJax does some switching with DJax so the slot has that speed but I could definitely see some Ward thrown in.  

I also hope that Miles improves a bit on his close to 80% catch rate and that Scott maintains his over 90% catch rate.   

Carson started slow last year.  I think the back recovery slowed him down.  By the end of the year, he was hot.  Looks at Ward’s, Perkins’ and Scott’s catch rates.  Now look at Carson with a non rehab off season.  Hopefully he picks up where he left off.   

Eagles get a good test to start the season.  Wasteam’s front seven is sneaky good and I think they improved their secondary.  Hopefully Smith is still rehabbing.   Will be a good test for the Eagles. 

31 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Caplan and Mosher said JJAW has been working more in the slot so far in camp. No idea if that’s just cross training or what. 

Love it — to me it means Doug will use alignments to draw mismatches wherever possible.  If JJAW can’t catch passes matched up against a small nickel CB or a slower LB then he’s pretty much a lost cause.

7 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

That’s fair. I saw him beat some man.  That will depend some on who is opposite him. When he was playing with a quitting Agholor, then Burnett, Davis, and Perkins, he wasn’t going to see a lot of speed threat yet he did better than them by far.  70% catch rate.  Only RBs were better.  Played both X and slot.  

So, my concern with all the rookies is catching the ball.  All had some drops in college. Do I hope that Reagor sees time on the field?  Of course.  Ideally, JJAW shows he can play the X and DJax does some switching with DJax so the slot has that speed but I could definitely see some Ward thrown in.  

I also hope that Miles improves a bit on his close to 80% catch rate and that Scott maintains his over 90% catch rate.   

Carson started slow last year.  I think the back recovery slowed him down.  By the end of the year, he was hot.  Looks at Ward’s, Perkins’ and Scott’s catch rates.  Now look at Carson with a non rehab off season.  Hopefully he picks up where he left off.   

Eagles get a good test to start the season.  Wasteam’s front seven is sneaky good and I think they improved their secondary.  Hopefully Smith is still rehabbing.   Will be a good test for the Eagles. 

His 70 percent catch rate is a byproduct of his shallow routes against zones and LBs. He had the easiest possible job for an NFL wide receiver. 

8 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Eagles get a good test to start the season.  Wasteam’s front seven is sneaky good and I think they improved their secondary.  Hopefully Smith is still rehabbing.   Will be a good test for the Eagles. 

I’d have been awfully tempted to draft Jonathan Allen at #14 instead of Barnett in that 2017 draft.  I know he had a medical flag on his shoulder, but the guy was rated as a top 3 prospect on most mocks going into that draft.  I couldn’t believe he was still there at #14

7 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

His 70 percent catch rate is a byproduct of his shallow routes against zones and LBs. He had the easiest possible job for an NFL wide receiver. 

I agree with you that I hope he's far down the depth chart. Last year he excelled because all we wanted was a damn receiver that could catch the ball and he did that.

 

46 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Also keep in mind Ward was playing with a bunch of scrub receivers. 

Line Ward up in the slot with desean and reagor on the outside Ertz at TE and Sanders coming out of the back field and ward is going against nickel corners safeties and LBs.

I dont expect Ward to be a go to volume receiver i expect him to be another guy Wentz can trust on 3rd down to get a first down and make 1 or 2 plays a game. 

Right now Ward has caught the most passes from Wentz of any WR who is on active roster.

Jeffrey is PUP Desean was hurt after 1 game JJ was benched and caught only 10 passes and the rest are rookies or guys that have barely played.

Ward and the situation kind of reminds me of charles johnson. Charles johnson wasnt very good but he was reliable and mcnabb could trust him.

Difference is that early mcnabb to johnson offense had little else where as Ward wont be asked to be the number 1 WR like charles johnson instead he can just be a reliable target for wentz in a shortened off season.

Curious to see who the starters are game 1. 

Desean Reagor Ward?

Desean JJ ward?

Desean JJ Reagor?

Guess well see, hopefully.

 

He already played roughly 50 percent of his snaps in the slot, so we saw him plenty vs linebackers and nickels. It wasn’t impressive. Unfortunately he doesn’t have the speed to be a vertical slot so he doesn’t fit well with Goedert and Ertz, and him being on the field in an ideal world (a healthy and good Reagor and DJax) means we’re taking out a better player to put Ward on the field to run similar routes as the TEs anyway. 

 

7 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

He already played roughly 50 percent of his snaps in the slot, so we saw him plenty vs linebackers and nickels. It wasn’t impressive. Unfortunately he doesn’t have the speed to be a vertical slot so he doesn’t fit well with Goedert and Ertz, and him being on the field in an ideal world (a healthy and good Reagor and DJax) means we’re taking out a better player to put Ward on the field to run similar routes as the TEs anyway. 

 

The point is though with DJack, Reagor, Watkins and Hightower he is surrounded by speed.  It should open up underneath.  It will help create space for him.  And even if he has been playing WR on and off since HS last year was his first time every playing WR full time against NFL players.  He should only continue to improve.  I think he shows a lot of potential. 

Shots fired at Rich. 

9 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

He already played roughly 50 percent of his snaps in the slot, so we saw him plenty vs linebackers and nickels. It wasn’t impressive. Unfortunately he doesn’t have the speed to be a vertical slot so he doesn’t fit well with Goedert and Ertz, and him being on the field in an ideal world (a healthy and good Reagor and DJax) means we’re taking out a better player to put Ward on the field to run similar routes as the TEs anyway. 

 

Who do you see on our current roster as currently a better slot WR than Ward? 

2 minutes ago, wtfcares said:

Who do you see on our current roster as currently a better slot WR than Ward? 

Ward has already showed us that he is an average slot WR.  He can be Jason Avant and for some reason people don't like that.  It really confuses me.  

41 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

The point is though with DJack, Reagor, Watkins and Hightower he is surrounded by speed.  It should open up underneath.  It will help create space for him.  And even if he has been playing WR on and off since HS last year was his first time every playing WR full time against NFL players.  He should only continue to improve.  I think he shows a lot of potential. 

I disagree that he shows a lot of potential. He’s a below average athlete with below average size and speed. I guess he has theoretical upside due to being relatively new at the position, but if he’s anything more than a WR4 long term that would be disappointing.  

The type of player he is (a short to intermediate route runner) is a poor fit next to Goedert and Ertz. He actually clogs the middle and screws up spacing. His presence also means either Goedert or Ertz is off the field.  

We can blame the lack of weapons last year for a lot of things, but it’s not why Ward ran the routes he did or was horribly inefficient despite a 70 percent catch rate and sure hands. It’s not like teams paid him any extra attention. They were happy to let him catch six-yard passes all day long. 

12 minutes ago, wtfcares said:

Who do you see on our current roster as currently a better slot WR than Ward? 

I suspect Ward opens the year as the slot. Ideally though, JJAW takes a step forward and earns playing time on the outside, so Reagor is at the Z against off coverage and DJax can play the slot more often. He was at 33 percent last year. 

13 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Ward has already showed us that he is an average slot WR.  He can be Jason Avant and for some reason people don't like that.  It really confuses me.  

I have no interest in a Jason Avant slot receiver in today’s NFL. 

But funny you mention him because I think the love for Avant is way overblown in here. 

13 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Ward has already showed us that he is an average slot WR.  He can be Jason Avant and for some reason people don't like that.  It really confuses me.  

If he’s an average slot, you’re basically calling him a top 80ish receiver in the NFL. That’s insane. 

Wrong. 

7 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I suspect Ward opens the year as the slot. Ideally though, JJAW takes a step forward and earns playing time on the outside, so Reagor is at the Z against off coverage and DJax can play the slot more often. He was at 33 percent last year. 

Desean played one game last year and had a few snaps in the slot that inflated that number. If he plays the whole season, no chance he’s near that average in the slot. He’s an outside, stretch the field receiver, and does not have the hands for the slot, as we saw from him in the years he was here with us. And even if miraculously he plays 33% in the slot, who plays the other 67%(majority) of the snaps? 

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I disagree that he shows a lot of potential. He’s a below average athlete with below average size and speed. I guess he has theoretical upside due to being relatively new at the position, but if he’s anything more than a WR4 long term that would be disappointing.  

The type of player he is (a short to intermediate route runner) is a poor fit next to Goedert and Ertz. He actually clogs the middle and screws up spacing. His presence also means either Goedert or Ertz is off the field.  

We can blame the lack of weapons last year for a lot of things, but it’s not why Ward ran the routes he did or was horribly inefficient despite a 70 percent catch rate and sure hands. It’s not like teams have him any extra attention. They were happy to let him catch six-yard passes all day long. 

We're going to disagree on this until the cows come home.  We'll find out soon enough what Ward can be. 

13 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

But funny you mention him because I think the love for Avant is way overblown in here. 

There is nothing the Philly fan base loves more than the JAG WR's

2 minutes ago, wtfcares said:

Desean played one game last year and had a few snaps in the slot that inflated that number. If he plays the whole season, no chance he’s near that average in the slot. He’s an outside, stretch the field receiver, and does not have the hands for the slot, as we saw from him in the years he was here with us. 

The slot position is changing. Vertical slots > possession slots. DJax is hyper efficient in the slot in both yards per route and yards per target. 

This was a good preview by Kist last year, detailing his effectiveness in the slot and in tight sets where he might not technically be a slot but he still has two-way gos. 

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/platform/amp/2019/6/13/18677509/eagles-should-get-nasty-desean-jackson-philadelphia-nfl-football-offense-wide-receiver-carson-wentz

His two long TDs came out of the slot against Washington. We would be foolish to not take advantage of that.

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

There is nothing the Philly fan base loves more than the JAG WR's

We’ll always have Paul Turner’s big day against Cincinnati. 

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

Caplan and Mosher said JJAW has been working more in the slot so far in camp. No idea if that’s just cross training or what. 

We are just starting day three of vets in camp.  Last I heard no reporters at camp.  Not sure we should trust that reporting.  Are they even playing any 11 on 11 at this point?  I mean Moorehead gave an interview yesterday and said they are just working on concepts at this point.  In his talking about JJAW, he talked about working with him on things he can improve.  Thanks for sharing that, I just doubt they had a lot of depth to say it means much.  BTW, I enjoyed the Moorehead interview.  I like his philosophy on working on the player’s "bottom”.  I really wish someone had asked about Avant’s input.    BTW, he knows Ward’s background back to the phenom he was in Tyler and he really seems to know Reagor.  

5 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

We are just starting day three of vets in camp.  Last I heard no reporters at camp.  Not sure we should trust that reporting.  Are they even playing any 11 on 11 at this point?  I mean Moorehead gave an interview yesterday and said they are just working on concepts at this point.  In his talking about JJAW, he talked about working with him on things he can improve.  Thanks for sharing that, I just doubt they had a lot of depth to say it means much.  BTW, I enjoyed the Moorehead interview.  I like his philosophy on working on the player’s "bottom”.  I really wish someone had asked about Avant’s input.    BTW, he knows Ward’s background back to the phenom he was in Tyler and he really seems to know Reagor.  

They’ve been doing walk throughs basically. 

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

His 70 percent catch rate is a byproduct of his shallow routes against zones and LBs. He had the easiest possible job for an NFL wide receiver. 

I doubt that.  He had Burnett with one catch and Davis with two.  That said, when the games were desperate, Wentz had Ward catching at a 70% rate and Scott into the 90s.  That’s not all Scott and Ward.  Yes they were getting open and catching what was thrown, but that also goes to Wentz.  Wentz was on fire.  But it also means Wentz grew to trust Scott and Ward.  Hopefully that fire extends into this season.  Imagine the high safety needing to account for DJax and Miles or Scott being covered by a LB.  imagine the X is a threat like Reagor so Ertz or Goedert is covered by a LB or S so Ward is covered by a nickel.  I bet his YAC goes up.  Now imagine if it’s JJAW, like we saw in the Ravens PS game last year, DJax in the slot, Reagor in the Z and either Ertz and Goedert or one of them an Boobie or Scott.  Let’s say we get to throw Hightower and a 2017 Clements into the mix.  If Dillard can protect Carson and JP can play RG, that makes this real exciting and I haven’t even thrown Watkins, Perkins or Warren/Killens into the mix.  Before you pfft Perkins, he had close to a 70% catch rate too. 

47 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I disagree that he shows a lot of potential. He’s a below average athlete with below average size and speed. I guess he has theoretical upside due to being relatively new at the position, but if he’s anything more than a WR4 long term that would be disappointing.  

The type of player he is (a short to intermediate route runner) is a poor fit next to Goedert and Ertz. He actually clogs the middle and screws up spacing. His presence also means either Goedert or Ertz is off the field.  

We can blame the lack of weapons last year for a lot of things, but it’s not why Ward ran the routes he did or was horribly inefficient despite a 70 percent catch rate and sure hands. It’s not like teams have him any extra attention. They were happy to let him catch six-yard passes all day long. 

I get that you don't like him but you misrepresent his talent in your quest to denigrate him. He's a quick guy and not nearly as slow as you suggest. At 4.49 his 40 is as fast as Cole Beasley and faster than Julian Edelman or Jarvis Landry or Danny Amendola. Those guys are IMHO in the top half dozen slot receivers in the league and he compares well with them. Two one-hundredths of a second slower than Reagor's though I'm sure Reagor is quite a bit faster than that. Ward's hands are obviously superb. Wentz clearly has confidence in him.

Further, the Eagles run a lot of three depth patterns - short, medium, long, as do many teams. That type of pattern helps the QB because he has all three receivers in his line of sight. Because they had no deep threat last year, their patterns were necessarily cut shorter, as the deep guy didn't get very deep. Ertz was the medium guy and, when he finally got on the field, Ward was the short guy. You are mistaking his YPC as representative of his speed whereas, in fact, it is representative of the patterns that he had to run. Further, a five-yard reception on third and four is better than a 12-yard reception on third and 15. Of those 28 reception Ward had, 18 went for first downs. Pretty damn good.

I have little use for guys who look like Tarzan and play like Jane. You're welcome to Agholor or JJAW. I'll take Ward, happily.

49 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

The point is though with DJack, Reagor, Watkins and Hightower he is surrounded by speed.  It should open up underneath.  It will help create space for him.  And even if he has been playing WR on and off since HS last year was his first time every playing WR full time against NFL players.  He should only continue to improve.  I think he shows a lot of potential. 

Ward was a QB at Tyler as a junior and senior. He did play WR as a sophomore in high school.  He caught ten passes as a freshman at UH and 15 as a sophomore before they moved him to QB that year.  So, I can only hope that Mailata has picked up T at the rate Ward has picked up WR as a pro.