38 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Wrong. 

Yup.  Ertz is a glorified slow big WR.  Hell, DJax blocks as well as he does. 

41 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Wrong. 

Time to trade him

If Greg Ward plays a lot of meaningful snaps this year, something went wrong. 

4 minutes ago, justrelax said:

I get that you don't like him but you misrepresent his talent in your quest to denigrate him. He's a quick guy and not nearly as slow as you suggest. At 4.49 his 40 is as fast as Cole Beasley and faster than Julian Edelman or Jarvis Landry or Danny Amendola. Those guys are IMHO in the top half dozen slot receivers in the league and he compares well with them. Two one-hundredths of a second slower than Reagor's though I'm sure Reagor is quite a bit faster than that. Ward's hands are obviously superb. Wentz clearly has confidence in him.

Further, the Eagles run a lot of three depth patterns - short, medium, long, as do many teams. That type of pattern helps the QB because he has all three receivers in his line of sight. Because they had no deep threat last year, their patterns were necessarily cut shorter, as the deep guy didn't get very deep. Ertz was the medium guy and, when he finally got on the field, Ward was the short guy. You are mistaking his YPC as representative of his speed whereas, in fact, it is representative of the patterns that he had to run. Further, a five-yard reception on third and four is better than a 12-yard reception on third and 15. Of those 28 reception Ward had, 18 went for first downs. Pretty damn good.

I have little use for guys who look like Tarzan and play like Jane. You're welcome to Agholor or JJAW. I'll take Ward, happily.

I got Ward’s workout numbers from playerprofiler.com. 

 

7 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

Time to trade him

After this season.

5 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Yup.  Ertz is a glorified slow big WR.  Hell, DJax blocks as well as he does. 

C’mon.
Ertz has been an absolute Stud for us since he’s been here. Best TE in Eagle history and on the road to HOF. Made the most clutch catches in Eagle history. Plays injured, I don’t get the hate or the "don’t pay him crowd”. 

I hope he plays his entire career here. He’s our best Offensive player IMO. He loves Philly, wants to be here and is a Good Dude. 

18 minutes ago, justrelax said:

I get that you don't like him but you misrepresent his talent in your quest to denigrate him. He's a quick guy and not nearly as slow as you suggest. At 4.49 his 40 is as fast as Cole Beasley and faster than Julian Edelman or Jarvis Landry or Danny Amendola. Those guys are IMHO in the top half dozen slot receivers in the league and he compares well with them. Two one-hundredths of a second slower than Reagor's though I'm sure Reagor is quite a bit faster than that. Ward's hands are obviously superb. Wentz clearly has confidence in him.

Further, the Eagles run a lot of three depth patterns - short, medium, long, as do many teams. That type of pattern helps the QB because he has all three receivers in his line of sight. Because they had no deep threat last year, their patterns were necessarily cut shorter, as the deep guy didn't get very deep. Ertz was the medium guy and, when he finally got on the field, Ward was the short guy. You are mistaking his YPC as representative of his speed whereas, in fact, it is representative of the patterns that he had to run. Further, a five-yard reception on third and four is better than a 12-yard reception on third and 15. Of those 28 reception Ward had, 18 went for first downs. Pretty damn good.

I have little use for guys who look like Tarzan and play like Jane. You're welcome to Agholor or JJAW. I'll take Ward, happily.

All well said stuff.  I think he's going to surprise people.

Don’t know how Johnson got this but looks like DJax burning Slay today 

32 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Further, the Eagles run a lot of three depth patterns - short, medium, long, as do many teams. That type of pattern helps the QB because he has all three receivers in his line of sight. Because they had no deep threat last year, their patterns were necessarily cut shorter, as the deep guy didn't get very deep. Ertz was the medium guy and, when he finally got on the field, Ward was the short guy. You are mistaking his YPC as representative of his speed whereas, in fact, it is representative of the patterns that he had to run. Further, a five-yard reception on third and four is better than a 12-yard reception on third and 15. Of those 28 reception Ward had, 18 went for first downs. Pretty damn good.

I have little use for guys who look like Tarzan and play like Jane. You're welcome to Agholor or JJAW. I'll take Ward, happily.

I wanted to break up my reply into a couple of posts. 

1) We were a team desperate for any semblance of verticality and we didn’t use Ward in that role. Why? Because it isn’t his game whatsoever.

One of our favorite plays is the three level stretch, but we don’t run it so much that it will tank his yards per target or reception. But for the sake of this discussion, let’s say you’re right. If that’s the case, it would only further bolster my point that his production came on plays that require minimal skill. Three level stretch is a zone beater and the underneath guy is almost always open. 

2) Don’t mistake wanting guys like Agholor and JJAW to win the job as some love affair with plays like Jane types. I want good, talented players. Agholor was that in 2017.

What I don’t want is low ceiling WR4/5s masquerading as our WR3. To me, happily taking Ward is settling. Don’t settle. 

14 minutes ago, RLC said:

If Greg Ward plays a lot of meaningful snaps this year, something went wrong. 

I'm confused with this mindset.  Ward can be a solid, productive player in this offense.  

Just now, LeanMeanGM said:

Don’t know how Johnson got this but looks like DJax burning Slay today 

There is no worse idea than playing press-bail, with no safety help, against DSJ. Either jam him or play off. 

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Don’t know how Johnson got this but looks like DJax burning Slay today 

And that's more than PE.com will ever give us.

6 minutes ago, Casey @ Bat said:

C’mon.
Ertz has been an absolute Stud for us since he’s been here. Best TE in Eagle history and on the road to HOF. Made the most clutch catches in Eagle history. Plays injured, I don’t get the hate or the "don’t pay him crowd”. 

I hope he plays his entire career here. He’s our best Offensive player IMO. He loves Philly, wants to be here and is a Good Dude. 

I don’t hate him, but he’s not even close to Kittle. 

1 minute ago, bpac55 said:

I'm confused with this mindset.  Ward can be a solid, productive player in this offense.  

If that’s the upside, why settle? Why not aim for a weapon?

Just now, ManuManu said:

I don’t hate him, but he’s not even close to Kittle. 

If that’s the upside, why settle? Why not aim for a weapon?

I agree with not settling but let's see what he can do now that he gets to practice with the 1s and play with confidence.  I truly think we're going to see an improved, more polished and better Ward this year.  I think he can be a weapon.  Weapons come in all shapes and sizes.  The Eagles got rid of Danny Amendola and look what he turned in to.

Sorry for the commentary language but since we get nothing i thought it was post worthy 

7 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Don’t know how Johnson got this but looks like DJax burning Slay today 

To be fair to Slay, DeSean in a padless practice has to be a freaking nightmare. Nice to see DeSean still has it though; man, I hope that man stays healthy.

I see Mecole Hardman, Ceedee Lamb, KJ Hamler, Fitz/Kirk, Randall Cobb, James Washington, Golden Tate, Cooper Kupp, Curtis Samuel and Tyler Boyd as teams’ slot/third receivers and people are in here are touting Ward. 

5 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I agree with not settling but let's see what he can do now that he gets to practice with the 1s and play with confidence.  I truly think we're going to see an improved, more polished and better Ward this year.  I think he can be a weapon.  Weapons come in all shapes and sizes.  The Eagles got rid of Danny Amendola and look what he turned in to.

I want better than Amendola too! I’m not losing any sleep over him. 

13 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I wanted to break up my reply into a couple of posts. 

1) We were a team desperate for any semblance of verticality and we didn’t use Ward in that role. Why? Because it isn’t his game whatsoever.

One of our favorite plays is the three level stretch, but we don’t run it so much that it will tank his yards per target or reception. But for the sake of this discussion, let’s say you’re right. If that’s the case, it would only further bolster my point that his production came on plays that require minimal skill. Three level stretch is a zone beater and the underneath guy is almost always open. 

2) Don’t mistake wanting guys like Agholor and JJAW to win the job as some love affair with plays like Jane types. I want good, talented players. Agholor was that in 2017.

What I don’t want is low ceiling WR4/5s masquerading as our WR3. To me, happily taking Ward is settling. Don’t settle. 

You seem to think all the best receivers are X or Y types, which Ward is not. Neither are any of the guys I mentioned in my earlier post.

14 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

If that’s the upside, why settle? Why not aim for a weapon?

Sure, you'd love to have a great player at that position. The issue is how much do you invest in a slot receiver for a 2 TE offense. I wonder what the Eagles would have done if Devin Duvernay had fallen to the Davion Taylor pick.

Just now, justrelax said:

You seem to think all the best receivers are X or Y types, which Ward is not. Neither are any of the guys I mentioned in my earlier post.

Edelman and Landry can play well on the outside, so they aren’t good comparisons. 

Beasley and Amendola are both better than 2019 Ward and aren’t great fits in Philly either. 

Flyers getting tuned up already 

For those of you that want Ward in the slot. What is the downside to finding a better player than him to play in the slot?

1 minute ago, Saltpeter said:

Sure, you'd love to have a great player at that position. The issue is how much do you invest in a slot receiver for a 2 TE offense. I wonder what the Eagles would have done if Devin Duvernay had fallen to the Davion Taylor pick.

I agree that 12 personnel makes a third receiver less valuable, but we’re an Ertz or Goedert injury away from being a heavy 11 personnel team, and if we’re playing a lot of 11 personnel it’s suboptimal to have Ward as the third receiver. As it is, we’re still gonna play 3 WRs something like 50 percent of the time. 

And when you’re in third and long, the preference would be 11 personnel over 12, at least that’s what Doug said last year. 

23 minutes ago, Casey @ Bat said:

C’mon.
Ertz has been an absolute Stud for us since he’s been here. Best TE in Eagle history and on the road to HOF. Made the most clutch catches in Eagle history. Plays injured, I don’t get the hate or the "don’t pay him crowd”. 

I hope he plays his entire career here. He’s our best Offensive player IMO. He loves Philly, wants to be here and is a Good Dude. 

He’s easily the 3rd best TE in the NFL. To some people here that’s not good enough. Gotta be the best. Oh and if you do happen to be the best, then they don’t wanna pay him top money because he’s a TE. 
 

Ertz is our best receiver, came up clutch for us in the Super Bowl, and loves being in philly and playing with Carson. There’s no reason to let him leave at all. 

 

He is also definitely "near” the level of kittle considering he had the same amount of yards the past 3 season and 12 more TDs than Kittle in that time. Kittle is a much better blocker, but Ertz is much better in the red zone. 

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I see Mecole Hardman, Ceedee Lamb, KJ Hamler, Fitz/Kirk, Randall Cobb, James Washington, Golden Tate, Cooper Kupp, Curtis Samuel and Tyler Boyd as teams’ slot/third receivers and people are in here are touting Ward. 

I want better than Amendola too! I’m not losing any sleep over him. 

He has nearly IDENTICAL measurables to Randall Cobb, Golden Tate and Christian Kirk.  He ran an unofficial 4.49.   Cooper Kupp is a good player, I like him but the only thing he has on Ward is size.  Ward is a 4.49 guy.  Kupp is 4.62.  There is no reason why he can't produce like them.

I would love to have CeeDee or Fitz too.