1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

and that was after coaches made that choice right? Not Howie. 

Howie had to use someone elses idiotic board. And ties were often broken by position coaches and coordinators. 

Never really Howie getting to make a call. Just making the calls other people told him to. 

yeah. Joe was brought here for the draft. No ifs ands or buts about that. 

He was brought here to set the board and to bring over the Ravens’ scouting system. 

Who sets the board now?

Just now, ManuManu said:

Guess what guys, Howie will be making picks off Andy Weidl’s board too. 

Howie has much more say now. Weidl wasnt a big draft guy brought in from outside to preside over Howie. 

This is similar to how Colangelo was brought in to keep Hinkie under his thumb.  Then Brand was "GM" but had to keep Colandelo's entire staff. Now Brand has more autonomy this season.

This offseason Howie had more autonomy. No one was over him. 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

He was brought here to set the board and to bring over the Ravens’ scouting system. 

Who sets the board now?

His version of the Raven's scouting system sucked and so did his board.

 

Now its one of Howie's understudies setting the board. Not a guy brought in over Howie setting the board. Theres a big difference in that dynamic. Howie is now the boss. Howie in the past was the boss that needed another boss next to him because he wasnt trusted to be the boss himself. 

3 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

"Teams will also be allowed to bring two players per week up from the practice squad to the active roster on game day without those players having to clear waivers to return to the practice squad. Teams can only promote any one player twice during the season."

Just to clear up potential confusion on that last sentence, teams can only promote one player twice during the season and use the provision of putting him back on the PS without clearing waivers. They can promote anyone as many times as they want but after two times they need to clear waivers to go back to the PS 

Just now, HazletonEagle said:

You cant evaluate his drafts when hes using someone else's board.

If you were doing a fantasy football draft and I sent you a ridiculous spreadsheet of player rankings you had to use and your team sucked, is it fair to say youre a bad drafter? No. Its not. 

Howie owns the process.  If he delegates the rankings he needs to get a better team to do so.

That being said...we are evaluating in a vacuum.  Other teams miss on picks just as, if not more, often as we do.

The exceptions would be Baltimore and Pittsburgh, who have long tenured coaches and an established framework for the types of players they look for.

Detroit, Jacksonville, Cleveland, Miami, etc. would be clamoring for a GM like Howie.

Just now, Connecticut Eagle said:

Howie owns the process.  If he delegates the rankings he needs to get a better team to do so.

That being said...we are evaluating in a vacuum.  Other teams miss on picks just as, if not more, often as we do.

The exceptions would be Baltimore and Pittsburgh, who have long tenured coaches and an established framework for the types of players they look for.

Detroit, Jacksonville, Cleveland, Miami, etc. would be clamoring for a GM like Howie.

Joe delegated the rankings. Joe sucked. Luckily Joe is gone. Now we can begin to evaluate Howie. 

5 minutes ago, Green Dog said:

lol.

Didn't we do this yesterday?

Sure did, and it’s a circular argument down a rabbit hole, too.

Every GM is accountable for the draft record of the organization, and every GM has a scouting department who get paid to identify the best prospects and set the board for him.

Even after agreement on the above, drafting is about 35% picking the right player, and 65% coaching the player up to BE the right pick.
 

5 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Again, he isn’t just sitting back idly as Joe puts his board together. He gets a say. Joe wasn’t the puppet master. 

In year 1 (2017), I think it's safe to say that Howie let Joe drive a lot of the draft. Howie used his political capital to bring him in and gave him power. You don't do that to not use his expertise. Ultimately, it's his call though. So the Sidney Jones decision, regardless of the board, is 100% on him. Not taking Joe Mixon for ethical reasons was fine.

Just now, Alphagrand said:

Sure did, and it’s a circular argument down a rabbit hole, too.

Every GM is accountable for the draft record of the organization, and every GM has a scouting department who get paid to identify the best prospects and set the board for him.

Even after agreement on the above, drafting is about 35% picking the right player, and 65% coaching the player up to BE the right pick.
 

However for those of us who follow this team, we know that the GM had to share responsibility with someone else brought in who was more trusted to do those things. Unfortunately that guy was Joe Douglas who sucked. 

27 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I think Pump is easily the worst pick. I almost always look at a prospect optimistically and try to see what the Eagles saw. It was clear he wasn’t an NFL player. His traits had no chance to translate because you can’t be a tackle breaker with his frame.

Howie dropped the ball on that 4th round. When his first pick in the 4th came up i thought they were going to take tarik cohen as there had been reports about eagles being interested. Instead Howie takes a late round rated WR in Hollins then the next pick Cohen goes to the bears. A few more running backs go in the round jamal williams wayne gallman and howie trades up i thought at the time for a RB and howie selects pumphrey. I just shook my head as i thought the pick would be marlon mack or brian hill not pumohrey a guy most had going undrafted. Mack went a few picks later to indy where he was a few yards short of 1000yrd season Brian Hill is projected to be a big part of Atlantas Running game and Aaron Jones of the Packers who was taken in 6th round led the league in rushing tds

I thought there was a good number of later round RBs in that draft, that Howie and Co traded up in the 4th to take him was an Epic failure.

4 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Howie has much more say now. Weidl wasnt a big draft guy brought in from outside to preside over Howie. 

This is similar to how Colangelo was brought in to keep Hinkie under his thumb.  Then Brand was "GM" but had to keep Colandelo's entire staff. Now Brand has more autonomy this season.

This offseason Howie had more autonomy. No one was over him. 

I think you’re the one doing some serious spin. Howie watched the same guys Joe did. He signed off and made the picks. You can blame Joe’s board all you want, but Howie isn’t picking players he doesn’t think are good. 

They both deserve blame. It’s weird that you are completely absolving Howie. 

9 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

"Teams will also be allowed to bring two players per week up from the practice squad to the active roster on game day without those players having to clear waivers to return to the practice squad. Teams can only promote any one player twice during the season."

Danke shane.

1 minute ago, RLC said:

In year 1 (2017), I think it's safe to say that Howie let Joe drive a lot of the draft. Howie used his political capital to bring him in and gave him power. You don't do that to not use his expertise. Ultimately, it's his call though. So the Sidney Jones decision, regardless of the board, is 100% on him. Not taking Joe Mixon for ethical reasons was fine.

Yup. I’m not saying Joe didn’t have a lot of say. Of course he did. At the end of the day, the picks are on Howie. He made the call. 

3 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Howie dropped the ball on that 4th round. When his first pick in the 4th came up i thought they were going to take tarik cohen as there had been reports about eagles being interested. Instead Howie takes a late round rated WR in Hollins then the next pick Cohen goes to the bears. A few more running backs go in the round jamal williams wayne gallman and howie trades up i thought at the time for a RB and howie selects pumphrey. I just shook my head as i thought the pick would be marlon mack or brian hill not pumohrey a guy most had going undrafted. Mack went a few picks later to indy where he was a few yards short of 1000yrd season Brian Hill is projected to be a big part of Atlantas Running game and Aaron Jones of the Packers who was taken in 6th round led the league in rushing tds

I thought there was a good number of later round RBs in that draft, that Howie and Co traded up in the 4th to take him was an Epic failure.

Pumphrey is the poster child for Joe's bias towards production.

Hollins wasn't a bad pick on its own.  It was praised when it was made and he looked promising his rookie year.  Then he got injured and became a victim of crappy position coaches.

6 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I think you’re the one doing some serious spin. Howie watched the same guys Joe did. He signed off and made the picks. You can blame Joe’s board all you want, but Howie isn’t picking players he doesn’t think are good. 

They both deserve blame. It’s weird that you are completely absolving Howie. 

It only makes sense to. But Ive consistently said we can finally judge Howie on this years draft and moving forward. I still believe that regardless of whether these picks turn out good or not. This was the first time some football guy wasnt brought in to control the process. 

8 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Yup. I’m not saying Joe didn’t have a lot of say. Of course he did. At the end of the day, the picks are on Howie. He made the call. 

That is such a weird leap of logic. 

Joe Douglas was always the one who pushed for college production and wanting to hit doubles instead of home runs. His boards were set that way. We are really going to see Howie’s drafting style from the 2020 draft and beyond. 
 

With no college football this year, I expect Howie will continue drafting athletes > production. 

Just now, WentzFan11 said:

Joe Douglas was always the one who pushed for college production and wanting to hit doubles instead of home runs. His boards were set that way. We are really going to see Howie’s drafting style from the 2020 draft and beyond. 

Hitting for doubles is fine. Drafting Thorson is trying to bunt because your hitter has an 0.100 average.

4 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Pumphrey is the poster child for Joe's bias towards production.

Hollins wasn't a bad pick on its own.  It was praised when it was made and he looked promising his rookie year.  Then he got injured and became a victim of crappy position coaches.

It was always amusing to me how many posters on here liked Pumphrey because they thought he was the next Darren Sproles — even though he had never returned a punt or kickoff in college.

9 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Pumphrey is the poster child for Joe's bias towards production.

Hollins wasn't a bad pick on its own.  It was praised when it was made and he looked promising his rookie year.  Then he got injured and became a victim of crappy position coaches.

Yup Douglas was all about senior team leaders with production and pumphrey was the NCAA all time leading rusher

Hollins was a special teamer with a high yard/ catch ave in college who had 1 big catch and a cool celebration dance in a pre season game.

Spending a 4th pick on a " special" teamer is mis use of resources.

As bad as WR coaches were during Hollins time in philly other less heralded guys under same coaches were more productive.

That 4th Round was a disaster reaching on  a special team WR with a high 4th round then trading up in that round to draft 175lb RB that most had going late to undrafted.

Luckily Howie hit it out of the park that year with trades and FA cuz that draft was a stinker.

 

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

It only makes sense to. But Ive consistently said we can finally judge Howie on this years draft and moving forward. I still believe that regardless of whether these picks turn out good or not. This was the first time some football guy wasnt brought in to control the process. 

Weidl may have been here for the past five years, but he cut his teeth under Newsome and with Douglas scouting college players for  Baltimore. He will have considerable say and set the board. 

16 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Even after agreement on the above, drafting is about 35% picking the right player, and 65% coaching the player up to BE the right pick.
 

This is def true as well.

2 minutes ago, RLC said:

Hitting for doubles is fine. Drafting Thorson is trying to bunt because your hitter has an 0.100 average.

That’s fine, but it’s also why we have someone like Derek Barnett here. That’s the best example of a Joe pick. Production > ability in higher rounds especially is just a safe way of drafting. That why we aren’t having big hits. 

Just now, WentzFan11 said:

That’s fine, but it’s also why we have someone like Derek Barnett here. That’s the best example of a Joe pick. Production > ability in higher rounds especially is just a safe way of drafting. That why we aren’t having big hits. 

That’s also on Howie. He knew what he was hiring in Douglas, a disciple of Ozzie Newsome.

So just to go back to Alshon, if we will not be putting him on IR, then does that mean both he and Reagor will just be inactive on gamedays until healthy?

1 minute ago, Utebird said:

Yup Douglas was all about senior team leaders with production and pumphrey was the NCAA all time leading rusher

Hollins was a special teamer with a high yard/ catch ave in college who had 1 big catch and a cool celebration dance in a pre season game.

Spending a 4th pick on a " special" teamer is mis use of resources.

As bad as WR coaches were during Hollins time in philly other less heralded guys under same coaches were more productive.

That 4th Round was a disaster reaching on  a special team WR with a high 4th round then trading up in that round to draft 175lb RB that most had going late to undrafted.

Luckily Howie hit it out of the park that year with trades and FA cuz that was a stinker.

 

I look at Jason Avant as an ideal fourth round pick.  Third WR and consistent contributor on STs.  Hollins was going to be the same player.

He wasn't chosen to be a special teamer.  He was chosen to be a WR.  But the ST contribution would be a plus as he played his way into the offense. 

To suggest that any GM would use a fourth round pick on someone just for special teams is just silly.