2 hours ago, RLC said:

Prediction: A Miles Sanders for James Bradberry trade.

lol…you have to be joking

24 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Why? We gave Barkley money. We don’t need to trade for and pay a backup RB $4M.

Not to mention the Panthers drafted Bradberry and let him walk in free agency rather than give him an extension.  Not the same management group anymore, but highly unlikely they would have any interest in re-acquiring him.

It will be interesting to see how long Gainwell can keep Will Shipley off the field for RB2 reps.  I think Shipley will surpass Gainwell on the depth chart by late season, assuming both stay healthy.

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

It will be interesting to see how long Gainwell can keep Will Shipley off the field for RB2 reps.  I think Shipley will surpass Gainwell on the depth chart by late season, assuming both stay healthy.

I think Shipley should pass gainwell before the season begins. But the eagles damn loyalty.... they have a hard time demoting guys even when theres a clear upgrade below him on the depth chart.

3 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

It will be interesting to see how long Gainwell can keep Will Shipley off the field for RB2 reps.  I think Shipley will surpass Gainwell on the depth chart by late season, assuming both stay healthy.

 

1 minute ago, HazletonEagle said:

I think Shipley should pass gainwell before the season begins. But the eagles damn loyalty.... they have a hard time demoting guys even when theres a clear upgrade below him on the depth chart.

I don’t know if it’s loyalty or fear of plugging in guys that have under a year in the "system.”  I quote system because I really mean a year of working with the coaches and proving you’ll do the right thing.  That’s why Gainwell was starting over Swift week 1 last year.  

Even Barkley, despite being a vet, will be new to the coaches and Gainwell will be a bit of a security blanket.

Shipley is going to make more big plays than Gainwell.  I suspect he’ll actually get his number called on a higher % of the plays in which he’s on the field.  But that’s the easy part.  Gainwell will mostly be on the field for what he does on the plays in which he doesn’t get the football.

I saw Braden Mann for the first time today. Not even in person, just in video. It’s hard to imagine this is an NFL player.

 

 

He looks like a kid that kills you in Call of Duty, Tea Bags your virtual corpse and calls you gay.

By no fault of his own, I've had enough of gainwell. This team is overly fond of him, and unless Moore has full control over who plays and when I imagine they'll keep using him way more than they should. 

On 5/8/2024 at 6:51 PM, Godfather said:

He's good man. He was with Shocker and I last weekend. We were on Odell's boat getting drunk, snorting some coke, and banging a few hood rats. @Iggles25 over did it with the hood rats. We all agreed it was in his best interest to go to rehab. He started Monday. Same rehab Tiger Woods went to. He should be back soon

Those hood rats were enlightening.

My deek is still glowing.

On 5/6/2024 at 9:59 AM, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

You ok? 

Coming back to Earth from a bad time.

But I'm still here.

That's gotta count for something 

2 hours ago, devpool said:

By no fault of his own, I've had enough of gainwell. This team is overly fond of him, and unless Moore has full control over who plays and when I imagine they'll keep using him way more than they should. 

Barkley should get a lot of snaps, Gainwell the 2nd most to start,  Shipley with an increasing amount, Gainwell with a decreasing amount, assuming Shipley does well.

On 5/11/2024 at 4:05 PM, jsb235 said:

It would be interesting to try lane at rg and Becton at rt. I think that would be a better plan, and if Becton plays well, the team could extend him without worrying when lane would retire. 

Finally found who RandomReglar is a clone of. 

19 hours ago, austinfan said:

It's not like Moore is this offensive guru and Siri has no experience in game planning and building an offensive scheme.

Moore will run the offense, but the scheme will be developed in conjunction and with oversight from Siri.

Oh goodie.   I remember the offense back when Siri was the play caller... and I remember it last year when he had oversight over Brian Johnson's offense. 

Here's a crazy idea... let the guy you hired to bring in fresh ideas actually bring in fresh ideas .  And let Sirianni stick to being the motivational speaker he was born to be.

14 hours ago, McMVP said:

Siri may not be as much of an idiot as many seem to think…scheme wise anyway.  Yes, it’s just a guess, but that guess has me thinking he probably knows a bit more than many give him credit for.  His main failure may have been loyalty to Johnson.  I stress ‘may’ because, of course, we don’t know for certain.  

That's an interesting narrative.   It seems you've conflated Doug with Nick.   There is no 'may', because there was no loyalty.

 

Do we not remember Sirianni's offense when he was calling plays at the beginning of his time here?   Then he turned it over to Steichen, and the offense got significantly better... and the following year with even better players, the offense was even better.  Then Steichen leaves.

It's the same personnel on offense, and yet the offense under Brian Johnson goes back to being stale.  Sirianni, supposedly, helps out, but nothing changes.   And at the end of the season, Johnson is canned.  Sirianni remains.

But, if we flashback, in 2020, with a far less talented offense, Doug's offense goes stale and the team tailspins to end the season... not as badly as the Eagles did last year, but their opening to the season wasn't as good, so they missed the playoffs.    The season ends, and Doug is retained... or so we think... but a week later, we find out Doug is canned, because he stuck with his coaches.   Doug fell on his sword for his guys.  

Which one's greatest weakness was loyalty?   And which one's weakness might just be an inability to coordinate an offense.  (Recall, when Sirianni was a coordinator, he had Frank Reich running the offense, not him.).  He was never a coordinator who called plays before he got here.   The same could be said for Doug, but Doug actually showed some ability in the play call domain during his tenure here.  Sirianni never has.    Sirianni's greatest weakness appears to be his ability as a real coordinator and play caller.  He might be a classic example of the peter principle.  It seems as though he was buoyed by his coordinators in 2021 and even more so in 2022.  Unlike Doug though, in the aftermath of 2023 when what may have been the truth came to light, he abandoned the current coordinators and saved his own skin.   Where is this 'loyalty' you speak of?

51 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Oh goodie.   I remember the offense back when Siri was the playcaller..play caller... and I remember it last year when he had oversight over Brian Johnson's offense. 

Here's a crazy idea... let the guy you hired to bring in fresh ideas actually bring in fresh ideas .  And let Sirianni stick to being the motivational speaker he was born to be.

The problem is what you do if your plan (which it seems may be their plan…just tough to publicly acknowledge) is actually successful.  Success means Kellen Moore becomes a HC.

Just now, eagle45 said:

The problem is what you do if your plan (which it seems may be their plan…just tough to publicly acknowledge) is actually successful.  Success means Kellen Moore becomes a HC.

Not a problem for me.  Nick is a placeholder for Moore until he's ready to take over as HC.   

Nick Sirianni is Sam Bradford to the new Carson Wentz... he's the Doug Pederson to our new Donovan McNabb.    He remains in the job until Moore proves he's ready for the whole enchilada.   

 

Besides this isn't unprecedented.   Teams have done this in the past, to varying degrees of success.  

15 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's an interesting narrative.   It seems you've conflated Doug with Nick.   There is no 'may', because there was no loyalty.

 

Do we not remember Sirianni's offense when he was calling plays at the beginning of his time here?   Then he turned it over to Steichen, and the offense got significantly better... and the following year with even better players, the offense was even better.  Then Steichen leaves.

It's the same personnel on offense, and yet the offense under Brian Johnson goes back to being stale.  Sirianni, supposedly, helps out, but nothing changes.   And at the end of the season, Johnson is canned.  Sirianni remains.

But, if we flashback, in 2020, with a far less talented offense, Doug's offense goes stale and the team tailspins to end the season... not as badly as the Eagles did last year, but their opening to the season wasn't as good, so they missed the playoffs.    The season ends, and Doug is retained... or so we think... but a week later, we find out Doug is canned, because he stuck with his coaches.   Doug fell on his sword for his guys.  

Which one's greatest weakness was loyalty?   And which one's weakness might just be an inability to coordinate an offense.  (Recall, when Sirianni was a coordinator, he had Frank Reich running the offense, not him.).  He was never a coordinator who called plays before he got here.   The same could be said for Doug, but Doug actually showed some ability in the play call domain during his tenure here.  Sirianni never has.    Sirianni's greatest weakness appears to be his ability as a real coordinator and play caller.  He might be a classic example of the peter principle.  It seems as though he was buoyed by his coordinators in 2021 and even more so in 2022.  Unlike Doug though, in the aftermath of 2023 when what may have been the truth came to light, he abandoned the current coordinators and saved his own skin.   Where is this 'loyalty' you speak of?

Doug's offense "went stale" in the 2nd half of the 1st game in 2020. It was pitiful all year. 

Last year the offense, as bad as it seemed, was still a top ten offense in many categories. The biggest difference between 2022 and 2023 was the directive given to Hurts to protect himself because of his new contract. He was not the running threat he was in 2022. 

Finally, whatever loyalty Doug may have shown to anyone does not have anything to do with Sirianni. It's not like one person can have a trait and so the other can't.

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

Doug's offense "went stale" in the 2nd half of the 1st game in 2020. It was pitiful all year. 

Last year the offense, as bad as it seemed, was still a top ten offense in many categories. The biggest difference between 2022 and 2023 was the directive given to Hurts to protect himself because of his new contract. He was not the running threat he was in 2022. 

Finally, whatever loyalty Doug may have shown to anyone does not have anything to do with Sirianni. It's not like one person can have a trait and so the other can't.

Absolutely.   Who were the top WRs that year again?   Travis Fulgham and Greg Ward.   I wonder why it got stale?

Meanwhile, 2023, the top WRs were AJ Brown and Davonta Smith.   It's almost like its not even a fair comparison.  Two guys at the top of their game versus two guys who were never really NFL caliber players, let alone the top receiving targets.  

 

As for the biggest difference between 2022 and 2023... it was horrid playcalling AND Johnson's inability to adjust to Hurt's inability to run like before.   I'll also posit that if the sole determining factor in your offense being at its best is the mobility of the QB... that you are doomed to fail at some point, because that system has proven time and again to be unsustainable.  Always has... and always will.   Hurts was 'not a running threat', but they kept going to the QB draw on 3rd and long in the red zone like it was working. 

 

I'm glad you pointed out that multiple people can have loyalty.  And you are right.  However, where did Sirianni show that loyalty to Johnson?  In what way was he loyal to him and THAT would be considered his greatest weakness?   Was it because Sirianni helped him carry his stuff out of the NovaCare Complex?

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Absolutely.   Who were the top WRs that year again?   Travis Fulgham and Greg Ward.   I wonder why it got stale?

Meanwhile, 2023, the top WRs were AJ Brown and Davonta Smith.   It's almost like its not even a fair comparison.  Two guys at the top of their game versus two guys who were never really NFL caliber players, let alone the top receiving targets.  

 

As for the biggest difference between 2022 and 2023... it was horrid playcalling AND Johnson's inability to adjust to Hurt's inability to run like before.   I'll also posit that if the sole determining factor in your offense being at its best is the mobility of the QB... that you are doomed to fail at some point, because that system has proven time and again to be unsustainable.  Always has... and always will.   Hurts was 'not a running threat', but they kept going to the QB draw on 3rd and long in the red zone like it was working. 

 

I'm glad you pointed out that multiple people can have loyalty.  And you are right.  However, where did Sirianni show that loyalty to Johnson?  In what way was he loyal to him and THAT would be considered his greatest weakness?   Was it because Sirianni helped him carry his stuff out of the NovaCare Complex?

The system is not unsustainable. That's a myth. Contracts become investments and teams get scared of "risk" based on the investment. There's no way to prove that a running QB's career is any shorter than another's when it's simply success on the field that makes or breaks his playing time. 

 

As for loyalty, did Doug really show that to his coaches or did he just refuse to give up some control regarding coaching decisions? Was Doug loyal to Wentz in 2020? He eventually benched him, but never gave him a chance to learn from that. It screamed "scapegoat" --- especially in a season where we were practically gift-wrapped a playoff appearance if we just won 2 of our last 5 games. Did Doug go with the QB that carried them in that stretch in 2019? No. So much for loyalty...

I think something else was going on with Swift where they didn't trust him in key spots.  Coaches don't have that much loyalty like they showed with Gainwell.  

11 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I saw Braden Mann for the first time today. Not even in person, just in video. It’s hard to imagine this is an NFL player.

 

 

He looks like a kid that kills you in Call of Duty, Tea Bags your virtual corpse and calls you gay.

That's not Braden Mann, it's Braden Boyy.

Ravens at Chiefs on Thursday opener.

 

12 hours ago, eagle45 said:

 

I don’t know if it’s loyalty or fear of plugging in guys that have under a year in the "system.”  I quote system because I really mean a year of working with the coaches and proving you’ll do the right thing.  That’s why Gainwell was starting over Swift week 1 last year.  

Even Barkley, despite being a vet, will be new to the coaches and Gainwell will be a bit of a security blanket.

Shipley is going to make more big plays than Gainwell.  I suspect he’ll actually get his number called on a higher % of the plays in which he’s on the field.  But that’s the easy part.  Gainwell will mostly be on the field for what he does on the plays in which he doesn’t get the football.

New to what coaches? Most of the coaches are new.

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

Doug's offense "went stale" in the 2nd half of the 1st game in 2020. It was pitiful all year. 

Last year the offense, as bad as it seemed, was still a top ten offense in many categories. The biggest difference between 2022 and 2023 was the directive given to Hurts to protect himself because of his new contract. He was not the running threat he was in 2022. 

Finally, whatever loyalty Doug may have shown to anyone does not have anything to do with Sirianni. It's not like one person can have a trait and so the other can't.

Hurt had an injured knee. And they wanted him to become more of a pocket QB, running is not a long-term strategy at QB. Ask Michael Vick.

The problem with the offense is it was too "college," and Johnson didn't adjust when opposing DCs made their adjustments. It didn't help that they lacked a TE2 or WR3 who could take some pressure off the big 3 to make plays every game. But the lack of motion, inability to adjust to zero blitzes, etc., put Hurts in a tough spot where he had to run for his life on a regular basis even behind a top OL b/c no one was open.

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

The system is not unsustainable. That's a myth. Contracts become investments and teams get scared of "risk" based on the investment. There's no way to prove that a running QB's career is any shorter than another's when it's simply success on the field that makes or breaks his playing time. 

.  This isn't hard to prove at all.    Look at the way the league has completely and totally changed how they view the RB position.   They aren't highly paid.  They aren't highly drafted.  And the reason is quite simple, because they are looked at as expendable parts that need to be replaced about every 4 to 5 years or sooner.  When they get beat up, they get less effective as runners.  Teams don't want to invest heavily in that position anymore.

A couple simple syllogisms for you:

Syllogism 1: 
Premise 1:  Football players whose primary job is to run the ball (RBs) wear down more quickly than ones who do not (WRs). 
Premise 2: NFL teams don't want to commit long term big money to players who are more likely to wear down before their contract runs out.

Conclusion: NFL teams won't pay RBs like they pay WRs.
Evidence:  RBs have much shorter careers and are much lower paid than WRs.   18 WRs are making more than $20M/yr average salary... only 4 RBs are making more than $10M/yr.  And the highest paid WR is making nearly DOUBLE annually what the highest RB is making.

 

Syllogism 2:
Same Premise 1: Football players whose primary job is to run the ball (RBs) wear down more quickly than ones who do not (WRs). 
Premise 2:  QBs are football players.

Conclusion:  The more a QB is asked to run the ball, the more wear and tear on his body and the more quickly he becomes less effective doing it.

Therefore, if you use your QB like a RB, that system is unsustainable.   You said it yourself in your previous post... Hurts was NOT the threat to run that we saw the previous year.   And it wasn't all about him protecting himself.  Not at all.   That's just not the reality of what we saw from him.  Even when he did run, he didn't look as fast, nor as explosive running.   Hence, the unsustainability being referenced.   

 

QED

 

To address your point about how NFL teams view it with their investment in the QB position.  OF COURSE!  

Syllogism 3:
Premise 1: A QB asked to run more and wears down more quickly and becomes less effective...  (see Syllogism 2...)
Same as Syllogism 1, Premise 2: NFL teams don't want to commit long term big money to players more likely to wear down before their contract runs out.

Conclusion:  NFL teams will not ask their QBs to run more and wear down given the investment they've made in their QB.

 

It appears the Eagles' brass understands that, and they went out and brought in an OC that doesn't rely on the QB to run the ball to have an effective offense.  And they brought in a better RB that they can use and abuse, rather than using their QB in that way.  Ironically, a lot of folks around here thought the Eagles overpaid for Barkley, even though his average salary per year is less than HALF of the investment in AJ Brown, which was a contract that virtually no one complained about even in the slightest.  

 

I would love to see a counter example, to this proof.  Just one.   To date, the closest thing is Lamar Jackson.  He's been a roller coaster of a career already, and he's only 26 years old.   Before that was Cam Newton, and he was fried before turning 29.   If a team chooses to go this route, then the QB position becomes like the RB position and you will burn and churn through QBs just like teams do with RBs.  The very definition of 'unsustainable', at least from the QB position.   There's just not enough quality QBs for it to work like it does with RBs.  But, maybe that's the only way for the QB contract numbers to come back down to sanity.

12 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I saw Braden Mann for the first time today. Not even in person, just in video. It’s hard to imagine this is an NFL player.

 

 

He looks like a kid that kills you in Call of Duty, Tea Bags your virtual corpse and calls you gay.

I think its fair to say that "punters" are not football players.