6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The fact that there can even be a discussion about it is an absolutely amazing turn of events.  5 or 10 years ago I don't think anyone would have ever dreamed of saying that there was even a candidate to put up against Ruth.  

There are points to be made on both sides and I can see both sides.   Ruth was a poor outfielder, let's be honest about that.  He was a big guy who couldn't cover a ton of ground in the outfield.  Ruth was also not an asset on the bases.  He had 123 stolen bases in his entire career, Ohtani has already passed that number by a wide margin.  Ohtani has 50+ this year alone.  Granted, there's this new rule, but even before then, Ohtani was more of a base stealer than Ruth.   This year, since he wasn't pitching at all, he really made base stealing a priority and it shows. 

 

Now, there would be some that would point to the fact that Ohtani isn't pitching this year, so his pitching shouldn't be considered in this season's stats.  Ruth had to play in the outfield, Ohtani DHs instead.   There is a little more wear and tear on the body when one is fielding rather than just hitting.   But, the difference is minor.    The amazing thing for me to see when looking at Ruth's stats (and he led the league in so many categories), is that he only won the MVP award ONCE.     How is that possible?!    I wonder how many years the vote for MVP was split amongst Ruth and Gehrig, as Gehrig only won the award once as well while they were both playing together.  His second MVP came after Ruth retired. 

 

I can't take a side, and frankly, I don't want to.   I am just enjoying what I am seeing, and I look forward to next year when Ohtani goes back to pitching again (if he does!).  Ruth stopped pitching by the age of 26.  Ohtani will be 30 years old, and coming off Tommy John surgery.  We'll see if he can regain his previous form, or if the Dodgers will even bother to try.   Given his contract, you'd think that was factored into the equation though in signing him to that big of a deal.   And they knew about the Tommy John when they signed him.

I would argue there was a LOT more wear and tear on the body fielding, especially when it was all day games in the heat. 

9 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The fact that there can even be a discussion about it is an absolutely amazing turn of events.  5 or 10 years ago I don't think anyone would have ever dreamed of saying that there was even a candidate to put up against Ruth.  

There are points to be made on both sides and I can see both sides.   Ruth was a poor outfielder, let's be honest about that.  He was a big guy who couldn't cover a ton of ground in the outfield.  Ruth was also not an asset on the bases.  He had 123 stolen bases in his entire career, Ohtani has already passed that number by a wide margin.  Ohtani has 50+ this year alone.  Granted, there's this new rule, but even before then, Ohtani was more of a base stealer than Ruth.   This year, since he wasn't pitching at all, he really made base stealing a priority and it shows. 

 

Now, there would be some that would point to the fact that Ohtani isn't pitching this year, so his pitching shouldn't be considered in this season's stats.  Ruth had to play in the outfield, Ohtani DHs instead.   There is a little more wear and tear on the body when one is fielding rather than just hitting.   But, the difference is minor.    The amazing thing for me to see when looking at Ruth's stats (and he led the league in so many categories), is that he only won the MVP award ONCE.     How is that possible?!    I wonder how many years the vote for MVP was split amongst Ruth and Gehrig, as Gehrig only won the award once as well while they were both playing together.  His second MVP came after Ruth retired. 

 

I can't take a side, and frankly, I don't want to.   I am just enjoying what I am seeing, and I look forward to next year when Ohtani goes back to pitching again (if he does!).  Ruth stopped pitching by the age of 26.  Ohtani will be 30 years old, and coming off Tommy John surgery.  We'll see if he can regain his previous form, or if the Dodgers will even bother to try.   Given his contract, you'd think that was factored into the equation though in signing him to that big of a deal.   And they knew about the Tommy John when they signed him.

Hangover from the steroid era is still fresh, yup.  The game is completely different these days.  Ruth was a man amongst boys in his day, which is hard to factor in comparing the modern science era of sports.  Some chalk it up to a wives tale, but those were the days when people were injecting stuff into their nuts supposedly for a competitive advantage.  It’s nice to sit and watch a bit of history.  Which is nice. 

It’s much like football, we just left the era of the elite QB.  A few years ago you could wake up on a Sunday and be able to sit down and watch Brady, Peyton, Rivers, Brees and Big Ben just about every week.  

As far as Ohtani pitching again, I’m curious.  When he signed the deal i figured that he would be more of a spot starter.  Pitch some simulated games during the season, but be used sparingly.  Trout is a cautionary tale (though he’s not a 2 way player).  The contract still baffles me…Bonilla day is chump change compared to what the Dodgers will have starting in 2030? IIRC.

3 minutes ago, shlo said:

I would argue there was a LOT more wear and tear on the body fielding, especially when it was all day games in the heat. 

global warming was not in effect yet. a hot day was 63 degrees.

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Oh he's no cub.  He's a slightly less nimble dancing bear.   

JP was a dancing polar bear and Becton is potentially a grizzly then?

5 minutes ago, shlo said:

I would argue there was a LOT more wear and tear on the body fielding, especially when it was all day games in the heat. 

Mentioned it in my response…Mike Trout…

Just now, Wentz_Era said:

JP was a dancing polar bear and Becton is potentially a grizzly then?

Weird part is Becton dwarfs Peters.  Peters was "only" 6'4", listed about 330lbs.   Becton is every bit of 6'7" and over 360lbs.

Peters would actually look a little 'smallish' next to Becton, which is amazing to consider.

1 minute ago, Wentz_Era said:

Mentioned it in my response…Mike Trout…

CF versus RF in Yankee Stadium is a little different, but the heat of the day aspect cannot be minimized.  And no A/C to hide in under the stands either during innings.   The sports science changes everything.  But, its fun to see what we are seeing now, and I'm not going to diminish it.  It's a fun conversation.  One that I never thought could be had legitimately.

*OFF TOPIC*

Doing my morning sports reading and coffee ritual.  Came across the article about AF and UNLV and continual the conference realignments.  Hilarious that AF wasn’t looking at the PAC 12, but the American conference.  Calhoun is obsessed with numbers on paper, which is why they have always scheduled some of the weakest schedules in the NCAA.  Playing Baylor this year was a huge departure from the norm.

45 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

Personally i think the discussion of Ruth vs Ohtani is much closer than Jordan vs Lebron for GOATs.  I will not argue with anyone who thinks Ruth is clearly ahead though as there’s some validity to it.

Agreed.

13 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

*OFF TOPIC*

Doing my morning sports reading and coffee ritual.  Came across the article about AF and UNLV and continual the conference realignments.  Hilarious that AF wasn’t looking at the PAC 12, but the American conference.  Calhoun is obsessed with numbers on paper, which is why they have always scheduled some of the weakest schedules in the NCAA.  Playing Baylor this year was a huge departure from the norm.

Everything about college football is just spiraling now. From realignment, NIL, transfer rules and redshirting rules, the game (while still successful), isn't fit for purists anymore. It's a shame what's happening all over the college football landscape. The UNLV NIL story is pretty wild and it's just the start. Now that you can play 4 games and still redshirt, more and more guys are going to play 4, then sit and transfer. Might not all be because of the NIL mess the QB is in but he's opened the door as to how to handle a situation you don't like. It's unfortunate what the NCAA has done to what was my absolute favorite sport. 

10 hours ago, BigEFly said:

Damage? Flooding?

Storm surge may be an issue, I'm not familiar with Tampa's stadium location. Otherwise Accuweather is calling for 1.6" of rain today, another .4" tonight. .2" tomorrow. Winds right now (Thursday at 9 am) 14 gusting 33. They'll have 2 days to clean up. Big Bend/Panhandle aren't going to get off so easy. Tallahassee is forecasting winds 61 gusting 119 tonight.

1 hour ago, Wentz_Era said:

Interesting, a lot of credit needs to go to the coverage schemes then.  On the flip side, I thought Carr looked really uncomfortable a lot of the game.  The pressure might not have hit home but it seemed like they did a great job collapsing and containing.  Which is helps that Carr isn’t exactly a gazelle.

I think the Davis sack made him realize that his season could be over in a hurry if he took a lot of hits in this game.

 

 

If he's going to play like this, come back Brandon!

2 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Carr's time to throw was 2.64 seconds. That was the quickest we have faced so far this season.

His drops were very deep as well. , which meant there was less likelihood of the DTs pushing the OL back into Carr ... and the distance to travel to get a sack like Davis did was greater.  This was a game where the stat sheet was not a great indicator of the amount of pass rush pressure that was applied.

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

Everything about college football is just spiraling now. From realignment, NIL, transfer rules and redshirting rules, the game (while still successful), isn't fit for purists anymore. It's a shame what's happening all over the college football landscape. The UNLV NIL story is pretty wild and it's just the start. Now that you can play 4 games and still redshirt, more and more guys are going to play 4, then sit and transfer. Might not all be because of the NIL mess the QB is in but he's opened the door as to how to handle a situation you don't like. It's unfortunate what the NCAA has done to what was my absolute favorite sport. 

I can't blame the player.  I doubt he's lying about the promise.  The NCAA has created this situation by not just de-regulating the payment of players altogether. Just make payments to the players unregulated and enforceable under established contract law.  It would avoid these situations.  

2 hours ago, Wentz_Era said:

Interesting, a lot of credit needs to go to the coverage schemes then.  On the flip side, I thought Carr looked really uncomfortable a lot of the game.  The pressure might not have hit home but it seemed like they did a great job collapsing and containing.  Which is helps that Carr isn’t exactly a gazelle.

You and I are on the same page ... you said here the same thing I said in my post two above this one ... and you said it sooner than I did.

3 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I can't blame the player.  I doubt he's lying about the promise.  The NCAA has created this situation by not just de-regulating the payment of players altogether. Just make payments to the players unregulated and enforceable under established contract law.  It would avoid these situations.  

Coaches lie to players?  Never!

11 hours ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Please stop it with Ohtani.  He is having an exceptional season.  His last four seasons as a batter have been outstanding.  He is also an outstanding pitcher.

But...

He has only hit over .300 twice.  Aside from this season, his batting accomplishments hadn't really differentiated himself from the other great hitters in the league.  What did differentiate him was his ability to pitch at a high level.  But he isn't pitching this season.  So we are watching an amazing offensive performance. 50-50 is impressive.  Acuna Jr. did 40-70 last season.  Both equate the same WAR value.

Babe Ruth has a .342 career batting average.  He had a 14 season stretch were he led the AL in home runs 12 times, OPS 12 times, and WAR 11 times.  And Ohtani's four season pitching for the Angles is a wash at best to the 6 seasons Ruth pitched for the Red Sox.

12 months ago no one was seriously putting Ohtani ahead of Ruth.  One exceptional season as a batter only shouldn't change that.

 

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ruthba01.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ohtansh01.shtml

Not sure many take the time and look how good Ruth was, especially pitching which he stopped doing around age 25. 

1 hour ago, eglz1 said:

Storm surge may be an issue, I'm not familiar with Tampa's stadium location. Otherwise Accuweather is calling for 1.6" of rain today, another .4" tonight. .2" tomorrow. Winds right now (Thursday at 9 am) 14 gusting 33. They'll have 2 days to clean up. Big Bend/Panhandle aren't going to get off so easy. Tallahassee is forecasting winds 61 gusting 119 tonight.

They should just move the game to Philadelphia.  

11 hours ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Please stop it with Ohtani.  He is having an exceptional season.  His last four seasons as a batter have been outstanding.  He is also an outstanding pitcher.

But...

He has only hit over .300 twice.  Aside from this season, his batting accomplishments hadn't really differentiated himself from the other great hitters in the league.  What did differentiate him was his ability to pitch at a high level.  But he isn't pitching this season.  So we are watching an amazing offensive performance. 50-50 is impressive.  Acuna Jr. did 40-70 last season.  Both equate the same WAR value.

Babe Ruth has a .342 career batting average.  He had a 14 season stretch were he led the AL in home runs 12 times, OPS 12 times, and WAR 11 times.  And Ohtani's four season pitching for the Angles is a wash at best to the 6 seasons Ruth pitched for the Red Sox.

12 months ago no one was seriously putting Ohtani ahead of Ruth.  One exceptional season as a batter only shouldn't change that.

 

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ruthba01.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/ohtansh01.shtml

Can't look at raw stats, numbers in Ruth's era were inflated compared to the game today.

No 100 MPH FBs, no splitters, deep bullpens where everyone throws 95+. Most importantly, no black baseball players

Expansion has diluted talent, but population growth, international players and black players has probably improved the overall talent on teams.

This is why there are advanced metrics.

However, you can make a good case for Josh Gibson as the GOAT.

 

 

Sounds like Bucs will have Vea back but maybe not Winfield Jr

12 hours ago, just relax said:

I wonder about this lateral myth. It’s unsupported to my eyes. And Becton has better feet than Steen, despite the opinion voiced earlier. He’s bigger, stronger, longer, faster, and quicker. There’s a reason he was a high first and Steen was a third. Steen can be a very good OL.  Benton can be a better one.

Becton plays high, and he failed at LT in NY. Once you fail, throw out draft position other than you once had great raw talent.

Now Becton has great reach, but not sure he's quick enough to be as effective outside a phone booth. He's not going to pull much from RG, but if you can maul the guy in front of you consistently . . .

On the other hand, if Stoutland can make Fred Johnson into a solid RT, imagine what he might do with Becton with a couple years to work on him.

If I were an athletic OL who is struggling on another team, I'd jump at signing a 1-2 year deal with the Eagles and attend Stoutland U, a career changer!

 

Thursday Morning Predictions Thread update

5 predictions recorded thus far ... all for an Eagles win.  Average predicted score is a modest Eagles 24 Bucs 17. 

As always, please tag your prediction post with @mattwill that way I will be sure to see/record it.  Score predictions can also have an optional "Bonus Pick" tiebreaker prediction.  I will be taking predictions right up to Kickoff.

The 5 predictions recorded thus far are as follows:

38 minutes ago, RLC said:

 

If he's going to play like this, come back Brandon!

 

We could get a campaign going to show our support for him. Something like "Let's go Brandon!"