1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

So there was a mystery move incoming 

Never really came back from the leg injury.  Another Georgia player.  

3 minutes ago, mattwill said:

As was said earlier by @LeanMeanGM is seems like a 2025 move.

He could also be the Garrett Stubbs Vibes guy for the Locker Room this post season 

2 minutes ago, lornemalvo4133 said:

 

 

We shouldn't play dirty, but I would prioritize blitzing early just to see how he reacts to hits.

3 hours ago, eagle45 said:

To a certain extent.  

People talk about running vs pocket, but I also think of it as on vs off script QBs.  And that’s where I struggle with Hurts.  The last generation of great QBs were on script guys…Manning, Brady, Brees (at his best).  And for on script guys, they are stepping into throws, throwing with anticipation…arm strength isn’t all that important.

The great off script QBs…Elway/Favre (2 generations ago), Rodgers (1 generation ago), Mahomes, Josh Allen….what do they all have in common?  Massive arms.  They may not see someone break open as fast as Manning or Brady would, not as cerebral…but they can make any throw off balance on a line with the laser hitting the target in the chest before a defender closes.

Hurts is an off script qb without the arm.

Let's not forget Mcnabb and Vick as off script QBs with cannon arms. Even Wentz for a year. As Eagles fans, we are pretty aware of the paradigm, and Hurts is something different.

1 minute ago, mattwill said:

Given his commitment to active duty service after he graduates from West Point, I don't think many ... if any ... teams will have a lot of interest in him.  That will be doubly true because he will never be a QB in the NFL.  Position switches are seldom successful.  I just love his attitude, skills, and production.

Fair enough.

While hoping my home didn't burn down, I was thinking about Howie's moves in building the 2017 team vs. the 2022 team and his moves AFTER the Super Bowl.

2017: That team was heavily reliant on free agents -- on offense, both starting WRs, both backs and 3 of the 5 offensive lineman weren't drafted (became 2 of 5 in the Super Bowl after Peters went down). But the team on the field in Minneapolis had Alshon, Torrey, Blount/Ajayi, Wiz, Brooks and Foles (yeah we drafted him, but then brought him back as FA) all as FA signings (6 of 11 starters); only Vaitai, Kelce, Lane, Agholor and Ertz were homegrown. On defense, it was a little better, but 5 starters were still not homegrown (Jernigan, Bradham, Jenkins, McLeod, Darby). So half the starters weren't guys we drafted and developed. 

After the Super Bowl, Howie's first draft in 2018 was a homerun -- Goedert, Maddox, Sweat and Mailata. However, 2019 & 2020 were terrible. 2019 produces Sanders, but whiffed on everything else. 2020 gave us Hurts, but the rest of the class was a nightmare. A franchise QB covers up a lot, but getting 2 starters in those drafts, along with the aging of the 2017 core, led to the 2020 debacle. Lots of the FAs we had brought to the team in 2017 left (Blount, Foles, Smith, McLeod, Bradham, Jenkins, Darby) or fell off a cliff (Jernigan, Alshon, Ajayi) and we didn't restock. And the FA singings we tried were awful -- DJax, Mike Wallace, etc. Howie kept trying to patch it with vets and there was no infusion of youth.

2022: Only one starter on offense wasn't drafted and developed by the Eagles -- AJ. On defense, it was more outsiders -- Hargrave, Joseph, Reddick, White, Slay, CJGJ, Bradberry. So 7 on defense, and 8 total on the team. 

After the Super Bowl, we lost a ton on defense (both LBs and Safeties along with Hargrave). But Howie's drafting has been amazing -- Carter, Nolan, McKee and Ojomo from 2023 and Q, Coop and Hunt from 2024. Howie allowed guys to walk and focused on replacing them in the draft primarily while supplementing with FAs, but younger ones as opposed to older vets he brought in from 2018-2020. The 2018-2020 Eagles were one of the oldest teams in the league...now we are one of the youngest.

It feels like Howie has learned to put a lot more emphasis on the draft, and his draft record over the last 4 years might be the best in the league.

8 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

The only hurdle in your scenario assuming you mean let Sweat and Williams walk is it will be hard to get an elite pass rusher while protecting the potential comp picks. Might have to swing a trade there. 

The risk of that scenario is mitigated (somewhat) if BG comes back for one more year.

1 minute ago, TEW said:

Fair enough.

If Howie does have interest and no one else does, then he becomes a UDFA target.

16 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

If they sign Becton and Baun, the offseason agenda is pretty clear. On defense:

• Get an elite pass rusher
• Replace Williams
• Slay/Rodgers/Ringo

On offense:

• Succession plan at TE.
• Who is the swing tackle?
• #2 QB
• #2 RB

There is one item out there that is a ticking clock and that is the long term replacement for Lane.  We didn't do it in the 2024 offseason and it must be done either in the 2025 or the 2026 offseason as Lane's time is coming to an end.  That is going to require high draft capital or a big FA move unless we are going to roll the dice.

 

9 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

He could also be the Garrett Stubbs Vibes guy for the Locker Room this post season 

Hopefully he doesn’t say something dumb like Stubbs did in 2023 postseason 

3 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

There is one item out there that is a ticking clock and that is the long term replacement for Lane.  We didn't do it in the 2024 offseason and it must be done either in the 2025 or the 2026 offseason as Lane's time is coming to an end.  That is going to require high draft capital or a big FA move unless we are going to roll the dice.

I would roll the dice on a day 3 guy Stout likes, maybe we snag a diamond in the ruff. I'm not seeing a late first round tackle that I love this year that I'd pull the trigger on over DL.  At least not yet. 

9 minutes ago, notgetleft said:

Let's not forget Mcnabb and Vick as off script QBs with cannon arms. Even Wentz for a year. As Eagles fans, we are pretty aware of the paradigm, and Hurts is something different.

And yet, Hurts is great when he is "on script.” Seriously, he has excellent accuracy and timing when he’s in rhythm. There is just some kind of mental block where he spirals into holding the ball, not seeing the field well, etc.

Just now, TEW said:

And yet, Hurts is great when he is "on script.” Seriously, he has excellent accuracy and timing when he’s in rhythm. There is just some kind of mental block where he spirals into holding the ball, not seeing the field well, etc.

The worst thing Hurts does is scramble outside the pocket.

10 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

A franchise QB covers up a lot, but getting 2 starters in those drafts, along with the aging of the 2017 core, led to the 2020 debacle

Wasn't 2020 the year we lost the entire starting OL to injury plus four of the OL backups for large chunks of time?  I'd say that had a good bit to do with the debacle.

1 minute ago, TEW said:

And yet, Hurts is great when he is "on script.” Seriously, he has excellent accuracy and timing when he’s in rhythm. There is just some kind of mental block where he spirals into holding the ball, not seeing the field well, etc.

He panics when the play breaks down and speeds up his process. He's gotten better over the years, but I think it's a function of when he was younger, he'd just take off. When he's confident and in rhythm, he's basically unstoppable. That's why I like it when they go tempo and empty -- he seems most confident that way.

 

36 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I didn't say it was devoid of talent.  I just think you are overstating Ben Johnson's impact.  He is coaching a very talented offense with elite skill players and elite o-line.  He may be a historic talent at OC.  Mike Martz had 3 seasons of the number 1 scoring offense in the NFL.  He wasn't that great when he didn't have the talent.  

True, Johnson could very well could turn out to be Mike Martz, but I'd also argue Martz > Weis too. 

1 minute ago, DrPhilly said:

Wasn't 2020 the year we lost the entire starting OL to injury plus four of the OL backups for large chunks of time?  I'd say that had a good bit to do with the debacle.

Because we were relying on older guys who had injury histories (B. Brooks, Peters, DJax, Alshon, etc.). Combine that with Wentz forgetting how to play QB, and there's 4-11-1 for ya.

11 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

There is one item out there that is a ticking clock and that is the long term replacement for Lane.  We didn't do it in the 2024 offseason and it must be done either in the 2025 or the 2026 offseason as Lane's time is coming to an end.  That is going to require high draft capital or a big FA move unless we are going to roll the dice.

Why not Becton?  Put a bunch on incentives for OT starts in his contract to incent him to stay here.  By the time Lane goes, Stout should have the next guy ready for RG.

9 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

I would roll the dice on a day 3 guy Stout likes, maybe we snag a diamond in the ruff. I'm not seeing a late first round tackle that I love this year that I'd pull the trigger on over DL.  At least not yet. 

Day 3 long shot needs a lot of luck to pull thru.  Having Stroutland is good, give him players of better quality makes things easier.  That said, high picks are not quaranty of success either.  We already have one as the backup for RG.  Bector the starting RG could also move out to RT,  This off-season we shall find out how the succession plan works out.

3 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The non-traditional piece, as I interpret it, is using the QB as a primary runner by design.  Steve Young was a 'non-traditional' QB for his era, but he didn't really run the ball by design, he ran the ball primarily on scrambles, almost never by design.

 

For comparison purposes... Allen has never exceeded 124 rushes in a season (missing only 1 game in his career), meanwhile, Hurts has never had fewer than 139 rushes in a season, while missing games every year he's been the starter.  In other words, Allen scrambles but doesn't have the same frequency of designed runs as Hurts.  Allen's legs are a complement to his game, but not a fundamental piece of it.  His arm remains the primary weapon.   

Allen averages just under 7 carries per game.  Hurts averages over 10 carries per game.  One might argue that the difference could attribute to the injury disparity, despite Allen's reckless running style.

Or it could be the design of the offense which, in fact, is what it is, and just as you define it. 
A while back you said, IIRC, that you preferred the QB under center and with a FB. We run some of that, with an offset FB, less now that Van Sumeran is injured. In that offense, the QB had better be a threat to run, a lot. Your basic triple option mixed in with straight power runs. We offset the FB basically for size reasons. You can’t expect a 240 pound guy to block 320 guys straight up. You have to give him angles, functionally trap blocks. Nor can you make this your bread and butter. You’re taking faster guy off the field for a slower guy who is no threat as a receiver. If you do that AND don’t run the QB you’ve made yourself even more one-dimensional.

What it boils down to is that our offense is very much a hybrid. Non-traditional if you prefer. The incessant whining about Hurts by certain folk completely misses the whole point and design of our offense. Does he have limitations? Obviously yes, but he has strengths that more than compensate for that. Our offense, when he plays well, is pretty much impossible to stop.

6 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Why not Becton?  Put a bunch on incentives for OT starts in his contract to incent him to stay here.  By the time Lane goes, Stout should have the next guy ready for RG.

Stoutland works miracles so might do but seems to me Becton has real trouble handling fast bullets in pass protection

12 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

He panics when the play breaks down and speeds up his process. He's gotten better over the years, but I think it's a function of when he was younger, he'd just take off. When he's confident and in rhythm, he's basically unstoppable. That's why I like it when they go tempo and empty -- he seems most confident that way.

Agreed — tempo and quick passes where his decision making mostly takes place before the snap is when he’s at his best.

20 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Hopefully he doesn’t say something dumb like Stubbs did in 2023 postseason 

"I'm going to purify myself in the waters or Lake Minnetonka once we beat the Vikings."