16 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said:

"My point is that it was a clerical error that everyone, including yourself made out to be a major due process issue"

It wasn't a "clerical error". He had an order of protection of removal, and the government violated it. It's already been confirmed IN THE SUPREME COURT CASE that what they did was ILLEGAL. Period.

"He was validated to be a member of a MS-13 by the Prince George's County Gang Unit"

No, he wasn't. Which is why he was given the protection against removal in the first place. The judge found that the "evidence" was lacking, and the officer who filled out the form had been placed on leave afterwards. The government could have chosen to appeal the protection order, but they didn't.

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

He had a withholding of removal order to El Salvador, because he feared for his life from rival gangs. The error was sending him to El Salvador and not elsewhere. So, yes, it was an adminstrative error.

He WAS validated to be a member of MS-13 by the PGC gang unit, and that was held up on appeal. His gang status was not challenged by the Supreme Court, only that his withholding order was violated.

The suspended and terminated officer you mention was let go for a completely unrelated incident.

Furthermore...

1.) When he was was originally arrested he was engaged with (ie. standing in a parking lot talking to) known MS-13 gang members, who have since been charged and imprisoned

2.) An MS-13 gang member validated that Abrego was in the gang and had a gang rank and a nickname and was a well known "Chequeo" from the Western Clique.

3.) Abrego's girlfriend had children from a prior relationship. Her children's father filed for full custody of his children out of fear, as their mother was now dating a "gang member"

4.) In 2021 -Abrego's girlfriend filed a protective order claiming that Abrego had hit her multiple times, but then withdrew it when Abrego and his family pressured her to do so.

5.) In 2022 - Abrego was pulled over, found to have an expired driver's license and was found with multiple people in the car, to whom he had no relation and all claimed the same, false address. The Officer wrote in his report that he suspected Abrego of human trafficking.

Pretending like this guy was just the average Joe who was wearing a hoodie and mistaken as gang affiliated is almost as egregious as pretending that Joe Biden was a lucid adult for the last 4 years.

But you can all relax now, because it appears that we have just spent tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars to return him to the US, give him a proper deportation hearing, just so we can either pay to incarcerate him here, or deport him again. What a marvelous happy ending.

If you all want to fret over people who are wrongfully accused, why don't you focus on US citizens?

26 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

He had a withholding of removal order to El Salvador, because he feared for his life from rival gangs. The error was sending him to El Salvador and not elsewhere. So, yes, it was an adminstrative error.

He WAS validated to be a member of MS-13 by the PGC gang unit, and that was held up on appeal. His gang status was not challenged by the Supreme Court, only that his withholding order was violated.

The suspended and terminated officer you mention was let go for a completely unrelated incident.

Furthermore...

1.) When he was was originally arrested he was engaged with (ie. standing in a parking lot talking to) known MS-13 gang members, who have since been charged and imprisoned

2.) An MS-13 gang member validated that Abrego was in the gang and had a gang rank and a nickname and was a well known "Chequeo" from the Western Clique.

3.) Abrego's girlfriend had children from a prior relationship. Her children's father filed for full custody of his children out of fear, as their mother was now dating a "gang member"

4.) In 2021 -Abrego's girlfriend filed a protective order claiming that Abrego had hit her multiple times, but then withdrew it when Abrego and his family pressured her to do so.

5.) In 2022 - Abrego was pulled over, found to have an expired driver's license and was found with multiple people in the car, to whom he had no relation and all claimed the same, false address. The Officer wrote in his report that he suspected Abrego of human trafficking.

Pretending like this guy was just the average Joe who was wearing a hoodie and mistaken as gang affiliated is almost as egregious as pretending that Joe Biden was a lucid adult for the last 4 years.

But you can all relax now, because it appears that we have just spent tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars to return him to the US, give him a proper deportation hearing, just so we can either pay to incarcerate him here, or deport him again. What a marvelous happy ending.

If you all want to fret over people who are wrongfully accused, why don't you focus on US citizens?

He was "validated" a member by law enforcement, not a court of law. Not sure where you learned civics but in our system the executive branch doesn't just get to accuse someone and enforce an extrajudicial remedy without the courts. It's literally part of our checks and balances, and it applies to all persons not just US citizens.

The executive branch can now go ahead and prove his guilt in a court of law. Or not. Either way that's what due process is, and upholding due process is more important than any individual case.

20 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Pretending like this guy was just the average Joe who was wearing a hoodie and mistaken as gang affiliated is almost as egregious as pretending that Joe Biden was a lucid adult for the last 4 years.

But you can all relax now, because it appears that we have just spent tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars to return him to the US, give him a proper deportation hearing, just so we can either pay to incarcerate him here, or deport him again. What a marvelous happy ending.

If you all want to fret over people who are wrongfully accused, why don't you focus on US citizens?

No one in here was pretending Garcia is an average Joe. We've been thru this multiple times already. Please pay attention.

The costs for all the extra court time are far far more than the costs of his flight back and single hearing that will be necessary to correct the govt's mistake. You were very right in bringing up the cost issue but you did not correctly identify the culprit. Given your profession it should have been very easy for you to get this right.

You keep talking about a person while we are talking about the Constitution. This is 100% on the Trump WH. All they had to do was put their hand in the air, admit the mistake, and then fix it. Instead we have months of court time and silliness in the media and all because the Trump WH wanted to send a message. This is just one example of the colossal dysfunction that is the Trump administration.

51 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

because it appears that we have just spent tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars to return him to the US, give him a proper deportation hearing, just so we can either pay to incarcerate him here, or deport him again. What a marvelous happy ending

Oh my God, we have to spend money to correct the administration's previous unlawful action so that we can now comply with the law? Unfathomable!

24 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Not sure where you learned civics

Trump University. He was far too retarded to be accepted into a real school.

1 hour ago, DrPhilly said:

No one in here was pretending Garcia is an average Joe. We've been thru this multiple times already. Please pay attention.

The costs for all the extra court time are far far more than the costs of his flight back and single hearing that will be necessary to correct the govt's mistake. You were very right in bringing up the cost issue but you did not correctly identify the culprit. Given your profession it should have been very easy for you to get this right.

You keep talking about a person while we are talking about the Constitution. This is 100% on the Trump WH. All they had to do was put their hand in the air, admit the mistake, and then fix it. Instead we have months of court time and silliness in the media and all because the Trump WH wanted to send a message. This is just one example of the colossal dysfunction that is the Trump administration.

The media for months has been calling him a "man from Maryland" and ignoring this stuff. So maybe you haven't normalized him, but many have.

And yes, he did go in front of a judge who upheld the MS-13 designation, as did an appellate judge.

The Trump admin did admit the mistake and now it is being rectified. So everything turned out like it should have, right?

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Oh my God, we have to spend money to correct the administration's previous unlawful action so that we can now comply with the law? Unfathomable!

Thank god we have folks like all of you to fight for illegal immigrant gang members who beat their wives and traffic humans. The nation sincerely thanks you for your service.

8 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

The media for months has been calling him a "man from Maryland" and ignoring this stuff. So maybe you haven't normalized him, but many have.

And yes, he did go in front of a judge who upheld the MS-13 designation, as did an appellate judge.

The Trump admin did admit the mistake and now it is being rectified. So everything turned out like it should have, right?

I'm talking about people in here. No one in here called him an average Joe.

I never said anything about the MS-13 designation. That was another poster.

The Trump admin never publicly admitted they made a mistake. Quite the contrary. Bondi and Miller were VERY adamant time and again that no mistake had been made.

I see you didn't address the other comments. Obviously the costs would have been much lower had the Trump team did the normal thing and fix the issue right away. Nice to see this discussion here in the DOGE thread.

1 minute ago, DrPhilly said:

I'm talking about people in here. No one in here called him an average Joe.

I never said anything about the MS-13 designation. That was another poster.

The Trump admin never publicly admitted they made a mistake. Quite the contrary. Bondi and Miller were VERY adamant time and again that no mistake had been made.

I see you didn't address the other comments. Obviously the costs would have been much lower had the Trump team did the normal thing and fix the issue right away. Nice to see this discussion here in the DOGE thread.

I've seen countless posts suggesting that this man was wrongfully accused simply because he was wearing a Bulls hoodie and hat. So again, maybe you haven't but others have.

The administration filed in court admitting to an "administrative error" and an "oversight". That has been made public, so yes, they have admitted their error. Maybe you want them to stand up there and publicly crucify themselves, but that's not really how politics works, is it?

The entire point of bringing this up was that this has been blown way out of proportion and has been seized upon but those looking to score political points.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...there are plenty of issues out there to be critical of this administration. But in my mind, this is just media hype, and reminds me of when they ran the endless stories about Trump putting "kids in cages" at the border, despite it being a continuance of Obama's policies. I get it, there are valid legal concerns here, but far worse legal errors happen to American citizens every day and nobody in here makes a peep.

The one comment I agree with you on, is that this is the wrong thread to be discussing this in, so I will end it here.

3 hours ago, The Norseman said:

He had a withholding of removal order to El Salvador, because he feared for his life from rival gangs. The error was sending him to El Salvador and not elsewhere. So, yes, it was an adminstrative error.

He WAS validated to be a member of MS-13 by the PGC gang unit, and that was held up on appeal. His gang status was not challenged by the Supreme Court, only that his withholding order was violated.

The suspended and terminated officer you mention was let go for a completely unrelated incident.

Furthermore...

1.) When he was was originally arrested he was engaged with (ie. standing in a parking lot talking to) known MS-13 gang members, who have since been charged and imprisoned

2.) An MS-13 gang member validated that Abrego was in the gang and had a gang rank and a nickname and was a well known "Chequeo" from the Western Clique.

3.) Abrego's girlfriend had children from a prior relationship. Her children's father filed for full custody of his children out of fear, as their mother was now dating a "gang member"

4.) In 2021 -Abrego's girlfriend filed a protective order claiming that Abrego had hit her multiple times, but then withdrew it when Abrego and his family pressured her to do so.

5.) In 2022 - Abrego was pulled over, found to have an expired driver's license and was found with multiple people in the car, to whom he had no relation and all claimed the same, false address. The Officer wrote in his report that he suspected Abrego of human trafficking.

Pretending like this guy was just the average Joe who was wearing a hoodie and mistaken as gang affiliated is almost as egregious as pretending that Joe Biden was a lucid adult for the last 4 years.

But you can all relax now, because it appears that we have just spent tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars to return him to the US, give him a proper deportation hearing, just so we can either pay to incarcerate him here, or deport him again. What a marvelous happy ending.

If you all want to fret over people who are wrongfully accused, why don't you focus on US citizens?

I don’t know if this guy is "average joe” or not. In this country, we have something called the presumption of innocence. Part of the reason he was given a protective order is that the government had essentially no evidence that he was an MS-13 gang member. I suggest you read the facts from that hearing as it appears that you did not.

So being seen standing and talking with someone is proof that you are engaging in the same activity that they are in? So if I were to say, show you a picture of Donald Trump talking and laughing it up with Jeffrey Epstein, this is then proof that Trump is a pedo and human trafficker?

If you only care about the government following the rule of law and abiding by the constitution when they are dealing with someone you like, they you don’t actually care about the government following the rule of law and abiding by the constitution.

I think people in the KKK are pieces of sh-t. But I sure as heck don’t want the government censoring them and violating their first amendment rights.

16 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

I've seen countless posts suggesting that this man was wrongfully accused simply because he was wearing a Bulls hoodie and hat. So again, maybe you haven't but others have.

The administration filed in court admitting to an "administrative error" and an "oversight". That has been made public, so yes, they have admitted their error. Maybe you want them to stand up there and publicly crucify themselves, but that's not really how politics works, is it?

That's because the info that was provided regarding his MS-13 involvement was exactly that, a hat, a hoodie, and a tattoo plus some 3rd party assertions. None the less, that still doesn't equate to portraying Garcia as a "average Joe".

The administration fired the guy who admitted to the mistake and then said there was no mistake time and time and time and time again in press conferences. That was from Bondi, Miller, and Leavitt and they were very aggressive with their assertions as they normally are when answering questions. Surely, you aren't going to keep arguing this one? That would just be completely idiotic. Yes, the technical in court answer (from the guy who was then fired) was that an error was made but for Christ's sake that's a mere technicality and says nothing about the actual Trump WH narrative.

36 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

I've seen countless posts suggesting that this man was wrongfully accused simply because he was wearing a Bulls hoodie and hat. So again, maybe you haven't but others have.

The administration filed in court admitting to an "administrative error" and an "oversight". That has been made public, so yes, they have admitted their error. Maybe you want them to stand up there and publicly crucify themselves, but that's not really how politics works, is it?

The entire point of bringing this up was that this has been blown way out of proportion and has been seized upon but those looking to score political points.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...there are plenty of issues out there to be critical of this administration. But in my mind, this is just media hype, and reminds me of when they ran the endless stories about Trump putting "kids in cages" at the border, despite it being a continuance of Obama's policies. I get it, there are valid legal concerns here, but far worse legal errors happen to American citizens every day and nobody in here makes a peep.

The one comment I agree with you on, is that this is the wrong thread to be discussing this in, so I will end it here.

I’ll also remind you that he was given his protection of removal order during Trump’s first term, and the Trump DOJ did not appeal that ruling. One would think that if the government had all this compelling evidence that he was an MS-13 gang member that they would have appealed the ruling. Odd that they didn’t….

39 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

The entire point of bringing this up was that this has been blown way out of proportion and has been seized upon but those looking to score political points.

If you only consider the person Garcia then I agree 100%. However, if you look thru the lens of the Trump WH not abiding by Judicial decision then it is huge. You choose to look from the very simplistic perspective of a person and an event. I'm looking at the much bigger and broader implications.

9 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

If you only consider the person Garcia then I agree 100%. However, if you look thru the lens of the Trump WH not abiding by Judicial decision then it is huge. You choose to look from the very simplistic perspective of a person and an event. I'm looking at the much bigger and broader implications.

And that’s the point. Only considering the person is what leads to tyranny. Cause then it’s "ok sure the government violated that person’s rights, but I don’t like him anyway because of <insert reasons> so it’s ok that the government did that. The government would never do that to me or anyone that I am ok with…”

4 hours ago, The Norseman said:

Thank god we have folks like all of you to fight for illegal immigrant gang members who beat their wives and traffic humans. The nation sincerely thanks you for your service.

Nope, we just care about following due process within the law and as prescribed by our constitution. We are fighting against a pattern of extrajudicial actions at the whims of a wanna-be dictator. If you want your president to unduly punish people suspected of crimes without due process, you're certainly free to move to Russia or China where that sort of thing is embraced.

3 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said:

And that’s the point. Only considering the person is what leads to tyranny. Cause then it’s "ok sure the government violated that person’s rights, but I don’t like him anyway because of <insert reasons> so it’s ok that the government did that. The government would never do that to me or anyone that I am ok with…”

It's sad that this sort of thing still has to be spoonfed to these rubes like this.

4 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said:

And that’s the point. Only considering the person is what leads to tyranny. Cause then it’s "ok sure the government violated that person’s rights, but I don’t like him anyway because of <insert reasons> so it’s ok that the government did that. The government would never do that to me or anyone that I am ok with…”

Yea, the vacating of an illegal alien and accused criminal back to his own country is a long way from tyranny. Touching speech though.

4 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Yea, the vacating of an illegal alien and accused criminal back to his own country is a long way from tyranny. Touching speech though.

Tell me your ignorant on the history of tyrannical regimes without telling me your ignorant on the history of tyrannical regimes.

2 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said:

Tell me your ignorant on the history of tyrannical regimes without telling me your ignorant on the history of tyrannical regimes.

I'm old enough to remember Reagan both Bush's being referred to as tyrants and fascists...compared to Hitler, Stalin etc. You guys have cried wolf so many times that nobody is listening anymore.

If you ask me, burning their likely primary winner twice in favor of a vegetable that could be puppeteered in front of the American people for 4 years is far more tyrannical. Not to mention the installation of Kamala Harris as his replacement without a primary.

Trump is a jackass, but at least people know what they are getting with him.

35 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

If you ask me, burning their likely primary winner twice in favor of a vegetable that could be puppeteered in front of the American people for 4 years is far more tyrannical.

lolwut? Trump tried to illegally overturn the results of the general election, submitting false slates of electors in multiple states and incited a riot at the Capitol in an attempt to stop the certification, and you're gonna sit there with a straight face and act like you have any room to talk? You are an actual real life retarded person and I'm almost certainly going to hell for making fun of you on a daily basis.

1 hour ago, The Norseman said:

I'm old enough to remember Reagan both Bush's being referred to as tyrants and fascists...compared to Hitler, Stalin etc. You guys have cried wolf so many times that nobody is listening anymore.

If you ask me, burning their likely primary winner twice in favor of a vegetable that could be puppeteered in front of the American people for 4 years is far more tyrannical. Not to mention the installation of Kamala Harris as his replacement without a primary.

Trump is a jackass, but at least people know what they are getting with him.

Who is "you guys”? I certainly have never referred to Reagan or the Bush’s as fascists.

48 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

...I'm almost certainly going to hell for making fun of you on a daily basis.

(I don't quote-laugh often, best line here in a while)

6 hours ago, The Norseman said:

Trump is a jackass, but at least people know what they are getting with him.

You mean we know we are getting a jackass? I fully agree.

Beyond that we have no idea. Trump has no plan and no principles. It is all by the seat of his pants with a 100% focus on him.