12 hours ago, mattwill said:

The whole second sentence is about value.  What do you think that second sentence is about?  We may have to agree to disagree.

Regarding making things exhausting, if that is what is happening then I am accomplishing what I am setting out to do … cause people to ponder and question and explore possibilities.  That is how we all learn.

I just said it in the post you quoted. The second sentence is about if he was a third round pick he’d be fine for his current role and you could prioritize other extensions over him and easily let him walk at the end of his rookie contract. If that has to do with value then if anything it has to do with his draft pick value and circles back to the fact that because he’s not a third round pick and instead a high first round pick, people complain about him. 

There’s also a line between poking holes at someone’s arguments vs changing the narrative for no reason. 

11 hours ago, Cliftoma said:

I'm good with Davis.  He does his job and increased his pass rush.  I don't think he realized how dominant he could be until the end of the season.  And he helped bring us a ring so what there to co.plain about??

There is nothing to complain about. The point was he so far has been underwhelming as the 13th overall pick. If he was a lower pick people wouldn’t have as many complaints. There doesn’t need to be sweeping generalizations about him or what he’s done other than that simple fact. 

It comes down to do you think using the 13th overall pick on him was a good return on investment? I don’t. That doesn’t mean he is complete garbage or worthless, it just means you expected more out of the investment that so far has not delivered. 

Carter is getting paid next year and we already have a slew of big contracts with void years.  Davis really needs to have a big year to get in the conversation.  If he lights it up, we could use his fifth year option to buy more time.  But as it stands right now, he's probably on the outside looking in.  And chances are we will likely draft his replacement shortly and get a good one too.  Eagles are poised for a very good draft so feeling good at the moment.  We will be in the hunt again next season with some new dawgs.

13 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

There is nothing to complain about. The point was he so far has been underwhelming as the 13th overall pick. If he was a lower pick people wouldn’t have as many complaints. There doesn’t need to be sweeping generalizations about him or what he’s done other than that simple fact. 

It comes down to do you think using the 13th overall pick on him was a good return on investment? I don’t. That doesn’t mean he is complete garbage or worthless, it just means you expected more out of the investment that so far has not delivered. 

This feels like the BG conversation that was had year after year. Let the player evolve, he is young, and maybe put Campbell next to him for a year. Being able to stuff the run in a league that is now turning toward the run game because of the Eagles is not a bad thing. 

15 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

There is nothing to complain about. The point was he so far has been underwhelming as the 13th overall pick. If he was a lower pick people wouldn’t have as many complaints. There doesn’t need to be sweeping generalizations about him or what he’s done other than that simple fact. 

It comes down to do you think using the 13th overall pick on him was a good return on investment? I don’t. That doesn’t mean he is complete garbage or worthless, it just means you expected more out of the investment that so far has not delivered. 

Could’ve been much worse, could’ve been better…

13 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

There is nothing to complain about. The point was he so far has been underwhelming as the 13th overall pick. If he was a lower pick people wouldn’t have as many complaints. There doesn’t need to be sweeping generalizations about him or what he’s done other than that simple fact. 

It comes down to do you think using the 13th overall pick on him was a good return on investment? I don’t. That doesn’t mean he is complete garbage or worthless, it just means you expected more out of the investment that so far has not delivered. 

Yup. The whole deal with Davis was "he's huge and a good run stopper, but he's crazy athletic and we think that can translate into increased pass rush potential". That pass rush potential is why he was picked so high. He still flashes it now and then, but not consistently. His floor has been pretty solid though so it's not exactly a bust pick either. 

I will say it seems like that 2022 first round had more than the expected number of disappointing picks though. Green, Dotson, Burks and Pickett all went right after the Davis selection 🤢

I have a question for those who knows the rules well enough:

At the end of the first half, Bears block a field goal and return it at 0:00 on the clock. In the 1 yard line, the bears player is stripped and he fumbles before crossing the plane. A Steelers player bats the ball out of the back of the endzone. Okay, 3 things:

1. The Bears player fumbled out of the back of the endzone, that’s a touchback.

2. The Steelers player illegally batted the ball. Because the illegal batting occurred in his own endzone, by rule that’s a safety awarded to the Bears. Any offensive penalty in your own endzone is a safety.

 

 

but that’s not what happens. Bears are given an untimed down at the 1 yard line and kick a FG. If they didn’t accept the batting, it’s end of half. If they did, it’s a safety. So what’s going on here?

 

15 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

You are moving goal posts. The comment I replied to was about why some fans are underwhelmed with Jordan Davis and they would complain less about him if he were a lower draft pick. I simply added more context about why fans would think he is underwhelming. Everything you just said is why fans would complain about him. He was traded up for, taken with a premium pick and has underwhelmed for his draft slot and projection because you can’t change what he has done thus far. 

You’re arguing just to argue and changing the topic completely. Todays market value has nothing to do with how fans feels about him being selected where he was and what he has done.

He was the 13th overall pick. Fans have the right to be underwhelmed by what he has done thus far. 

No. His point is valid. Whether he was overdrafted or not is irrelevant going forward. How the fans may feel about him is irrelevant. How the Eagles view him going forward is relevant. He is entering a contract year; that’s relevant.

How the Eagles view him may be measured by whether or not they exercise the fifth year option.

 

3 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

I feel Id like to use the pick on a more pressing need. I dont want an OL that early. I think "we're fine there" for now. Id like to see Steen and Keegan battle it out. 

I dont trust a day 2 player out of this class to come in and instantly be better. Could be a lateral move which is basically a waste of a pick.

Given the steps that Howie has taken in Free Agency with Lamm and Pryor, we have a serviceable bridge in place for this 2025 season.  So a drafted player out of this class does not need to come in and instantly make the team better.  Stoutland can take raw clay and mold it his way rather than seeking out pre-made clay that he would tweak rather than mold.  Raw clay can come from Day 3 of the Draft.

16 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

 

Nobody likes to be told that they are irrelevant, but if the shoe fits, wear it.  I’m a size 9 and it fits me perfectly.

39 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Yup. The whole deal with Davis was "he's huge and a good run stopper, but he's crazy athletic and we think that can translate into increased pass rush potential". That pass rush potential is why he was picked so high. He still flashes it now and then, but not consistently. His floor has been pretty solid though so it's not exactly a bust pick either. 

I will say it seems like that 2022 first round had more than the expected number of disappointing picks though. Green, Dotson, Burks and Pickett all went right after the Davis selection 🤢

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

It comes down to do you think using the 13th overall pick on him was a good return on investment? I don’t. That doesn’t mean he is complete garbage or worthless, it just means you expected more out of the investment that so far has not delivered. 

If that is what it comes down to, then the perspective is backward-looking. Which is the point I made in my early response in this discussion.  That 13th overall pick can not be changed. It is what it is, and will always be.  It is also a "fans’ perspective” rather than a "GM’s perspective” or a "Coaches’ perspective”. For them the 13th pick is history and a sunk cost.

33 minutes ago, just relax said:

No. His point is valid. Whether he was overdrafted or not is irrelevant going forward. How the fans may feel about him is irrelevant. How the Eagles view him going forward is relevant. He is entering a contract year; that’s relevant.

How the Eagles view him may be measured by whether or not they exercise the fifth year option.

The whole conversation was centered around HOW FANS feel about him. How FANS feel he was over drafted. Dismissing the entire context is not a valid point. It’s changing the narrative to fit your argument. 

I don't know how the UFL is going to last.   I'm looking at a game right now on TV and the stadium is probably 90% empty. 

 

40 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

I have a question for those who knows the rules well enough:

At the end of the first half, Bears block a field goal and return it at 0:00 on the clock. In the 1 yard line, the bears player is stripped and he fumbles before crossing the plane. A Steelers player bats the ball out of the back of the endzone. Okay, 3 things:

1. The Bears player fumbled out of the back of the endzone, that’s a touchback.

2. The Steelers player illegally batted the ball. Because the illegal batting occurred in his own endzone, by rule that’s a safety awarded to the Bears. Any offensive penalty in your own endzone is a safety.

 

 

but that’s not what happens. Bears are given an untimed down at the 1 yard line and kick a FG. If they didn’t accept the batting, it’s end of half. If they did, it’s a safety. So what’s going on here?

 

See the Holy Roller rule

2 minutes ago, mattwill said:

If that is what it comes down to, then the perspective is backward-looking. Which is the point I made in my early response in this discussion.  That 13th overall pick can not be changed. It is what it is, and will always be.  It is also a "fans’ perspective” rather than a "GM’s perspective” or a "Coaches’ perspective”. For them the 13th pick is history and a sunk cost.

Cool. Do you think he has been worth the 13th overall pick? 

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

If that has to do with value then if anything it has to do with his draft pick value and circles back to the fact that because he’s not a third round pick and instead a high first round pick, people complain about him. 

I respectfully disagree.  It has to do with his current value, not the value he had on Draft Day.

Think about your investment portfolio.  Does the statement you receive from your broker show the aggregate total purchase prices of your investments, or does it show the aggregate total market price of those investments?

5 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

The whole conversation was centered around HOW FANS feel about him. How FANS feel he was over drafted. Dismissing the entire context is not a valid point. It’s changing the narrative to fit your argument. 

I didn’t dismiss it.  I simply said that it was backward-looking, and then described the forward-looking perspective that GMs and Coaches act on … and the decision on what to do with/about Davis is (A) one that the GM and coaches will make, and (B) the fans will not make.

This isn’t an either/or situation, it is both/and.  Both the fans backward-looking perspective and the GM/Coaches forward-looking perspectives are valid … they are different, and can exist simultaneously.

11 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Cool. Do you think he has been worth the 13th overall pick? 

I don’t care whether he was worth the 13th overall pick.  All I care about is what he is worth now.

I respect your right to ponder that question though.  It just isn’t interesting for me.

9 minutes ago, mattwill said:

I respectfully disagree.  It has to do with his current value, not the value he had on Draft Day.

Think about your investment portfolio.  Does the statement you receive from your broker show the aggregate total purchase prices of your investments, or does it show the aggregate total market price of those investments?

It shows me that Jordan Davis was not worth the 13th overall pick 

2 minutes ago, mattwill said:

I don’t care whether he was worth the 13th overall pick.  All I care about is what he is worth now.

Great. Can you answer the question without setting your own narrative? I know why you can’t. 

13 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

I don't know how the UFL is going to last.   I'm looking at a game right now on TV and the stadium is probably 90% empty. 

How full or empty a stadium is is largely irrelevant.  How large the TV audience is is what is relevant.

I wonder why Howie gave up on Jalen Reagor. He had current value! 

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

It shows me that Jordan Davis was not worth the 13th overall pick 

If you believe that then the capital gains/loss for Jordan Davis is a deduction that lowers your income taxes.