23 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

A high first rounder they traded up for too, which certainly factors in. Even Howie said if he doesn’t develop into a pass rusher, it’s not a good pick. 

Not a Good Pick, as of yet.

Lane Johnson through his first 3 seasons had missed a quarter of a season with injury, and had a looming PED suspension that would reduce his 4th season by 2/3rds. Zero pro bowls up to that point. Now he may have been a good prospect for the times he was on the field, but if you told Howie that’s how his first few years would unfold he very likely doesn’t spend the 4th overall pick on him. 4th overall, as you say, is dramatically more valuable than 32nd, or even 13th.

You can do the same thing with 10th overall Brandon Graham. Very slow start, bad injury, lackluster throughout his entire rookie contract, that just wasn’t a 10th overall player.

While Jordan may never be as good as these players, what he does still have is the opportunity to earn the 13th overall pick. He may not be what you want out of it, but he is not yet a bust; not close

1 minute ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Not a Good Pick, as of yet.

Lane Johnson through his first 3 seasons had missed a quarter of a season with injury, and had a looming PED suspension that would reduce his 4th season by 2/3rds. Zero pro bowls up to that point. Now he may have been a good prospect for the times he was on the field, but if you told Howie that’s how his first few years would unfold he very likely doesn’t spend the 4th overall pick on him. 4th overall, as you say, is dramatically more valuable than 32nd, or even 13th.

You can do the same thing with 10th overall Brandon Graham. Very slow start, bad injury, lackluster throughout his entire rookie contract, that just wasn’t a 10th overall player.

While Jordan may never be as good as these players, what he does have is the opportunity to earn it. He may not be what you want out of pick 13, but he is not yet a bust; not close

And that’s fine. I’m not saying he’s a bust, can’t improve or should be cut. Just that it’s understandable he is underwhelming to some fans for what was used to acquire him and what he has shown so far. 

The fact that Howie went on record and laid out his expectations should be the end all be all. He rarely puts honest assessments or expectations out there for current players. He did this time and said if he doesn’t develop into a pass rusher then it’s probably not a good investment. He as of yet has not developed into what Howie expected of him so the only logical conclusion is that he is what he is as said by the current GM. We’ll see if he can get there, he’ll have his opportunity and showed some promise in the last playoff run. Let’s see if he can that at a consistent level over the course of the season. 

2 hours ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

 

 

 

but that’s not what happens. Bears are given an untimed down at the 1 yard line and kick a FG. If they didn’t accept the batting, it’s end of half. If they did, it’s a safety. So what’s going on here?

 

I don't understand your reaction to my answer. You wanted an explanation - the holy roller rule states that inside 2 minutes of a half the only person that can advance the football is the player who fumbled it. The Steelers didn't recover it so you can't award them the ball so it goes back to the fumbling team at the spot it was fumbled.

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

And that’s fine. I’m not saying he’s a bust, can’t improve or should be cut. Just that it’s understandable he is underwhelming to some fans for what was used to acquire him and what he has shown so far. 

The fact that Howie went on record and laid out his expectations should be the end all be all. He rarely puts honest assessments or expectations out there for current players. He did this time and said if he doesn’t develop into a pass rusher then it’s probably not a good investment. He as of yet has not developed into what Howie expected of him so the only logical conclusion is that he is what he is as said by the current GM. We’ll see if he can get there, he’ll have his opportunity and showed some promise in the last playoff run. Let’s see if he can that at a consistent level over the course of the season. 

On that note, his fifth year option is 12m$. Thats not much higher than an extension would be based on his current play. An easy yes from me

2 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

I don't understand your reaction to my answer. You wanted an explanation - the holy roller rule states that inside 2 minutes of a half the only person that can advance the football is the player who fumbled it. The Steelers didn't recover it so you can't award them the ball so it goes back to the fumbling team at the spot it was fumbled.

But the half was over.

The holy roller made it a penalty to bat the ball. An offensive penalty in their own endzone is a safety if accepted

16 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

yes.

I didnt watch much of the season. I couldnt handle it. But I regained interest a few weeks ago when the tank race really kicked in to gear.

Honestly, not only that reason to watch, but these young guys are more fun. 

Now you wonder if Justin Edwards can really be a player- he was at one point a big time prospect.

And how much can guys like Grimes and Butler contribute next year? Can they even retain Grimes who is a RFA? Should be be a starter? I am excited thinking about a back court of Maxey, McCain, and Grimes. Thats a lot of scoring, and really good 3 point shooting like we havent seen in years and years. 

 

I did that at the start of the original process.  No thanks.  Been there, done that, and for no payoff.  So now the Sixers are persona non-grata in my eyes.  I'll pay attention to them again when they give me a real reason to.  Until then, the NBA is dead to me.  

16 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

very nice.

I do love that Barkley picture. I got that and then the Hurts one was released. And I thought that one was cool too. And now theres the DeJean one. But I always go back to that Barkley one as my favorite. 

I think it may be because of the snow that gives it a whole different aesthetic.

Yup.   And its why every team going to a dome would be the worst thing the NFL could do.  Domes sterilize the game and make every game the same as the next.  Playing in the elements is one of the things that makes the NFL special.   Playing in the elements is such a big deal that the NHL brought back outdoor games in an effort to capture some of that magic.

Ok I'll stop for a bit.

38 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Working on an Eagles centric big board, but not sure who to include on it. Feels trite to put someone like Abdul Carter on it, but after him it feels like everyone else could maybe be in play. Probably not guys like Green, Mykel Williams, some others, but I don't think they are 100% out of the question. No one thought Nolan Smith would be there in 2023 at the end of the first round and he was. I think a guy like Green or Williams has somewhere in the same ball park likelihood of falling. Green because of character issues, Williams because teams are split on him. Also a guy like Jalon Walker and Jihaad Campbell.

Maybe I'll just do everyone but the top 5 guys considering after that, the first round is very same-y.

I just started to do some research on the draft this week and will likely go into "full draft mode" starting this week. However, from the little bit of stuff I have gathered this seems like the type of draft where there will be a ton of surprises in the 10-40 range with a lot of guys going much earlier or later than consensus.  As you said a lot of people had Nolan Smith had a top 15, and possibly even top 10 pick and he fell to us at 31. Jahmyr Gibbs was supposed to be a late first/early second round pick and he went 12th. Things like this happen every year and this appears to be the type of draft where it could happen quite a bit. I wouldn't rule out any edge rusher or DT possibly falling to 32 other than Carter and Graham. Obviously you look at guys like Walker and Williams and they are less likely to be there than someone like Stewart or Ezeiruaku but who knows. It just drives me up a wall when people who cover the draft every year make stupid statements like "that guy has NO CHANCE of making it to pick so and so." The other day I heard John McMullen say that there was "no chance James Pearce Jr. will be there at 32" which while unlikely is far from "no chance." 

Anyway, great post and I am glad you brought this up. It's like every year people's brains melt and they forget years of watching/covering the draft and all of the crazy stuff that happens. That's a major part of the reason that the draft is so amazing to watch because you just never know what's going to happen and things go sideways all of the time.

17 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

There was nothing in there that had to do with his value. The last comment was IF he was a 3rd round pick he’d be fine for his current role and you could not extend him and it’d be fine. 

You make this place exhausting sometimes and you are twisting yourself into a pretzel now. If fans opinions have no affect, what does that make theorizing someone else’s opinions? You are literally giving an opinion about an opinion. 

Let me know if you need me to make a chart.  I got you fam.

I'm torn on what's a bigger need right now Edge or DT. I lean Edge, but the case for both.

Edge: you lost your #1 Edge in Sweat. Signed two guys who are boom or bust, but let's be real, taking the Eagles rose colored classes off, they are more likely to bust than boom. Uche hasn't produced in a couple years and Ojulari had little interest around the league for a reason. That's not to say neither can surprise like Baun did, but if I'm going by what is likeliest? Both being meh is most likely. Then that leaves you with Nolan and Hunt as your main guys who are still somewhat unproven with very little behind them. And as long as you have Carter at DT you'll never be awful there. And you have Ojomo who I like and Davis who is solid.

DT: Carter is amazing, but even though I like Ojomo, he's still not a sure thing. And Davis is solid, but he's never been trusted to handle major snaps for a reason. He hasn't developed as hoped. You pair Carter with a stud DT and that line is going to be so nasty even without a blue chip guy on the Edge. And there's still lingering veteran guys on the market you could add at Edge later if you really wanted to like Za'Darius Smith and Von Miller. The DT market is pretty depleted. So you might have more of a luxury to gamble at Edge in the draft, because there's a safety net waiting for you after the draft in free agency, where at DT there really isn't. If you strike out at DT in the draft, your guys are what they are and it's good luck.

I still lean Edge, but I think it's pretty close. And of course depends on the player. If a guy like Walter Nolen is there, he may be too good to pass up even if you think Edge is a bigger need.

5 hours ago, DEagle7 said:

Plus he just looks like he'd fit in well with Jurgens and Dickerson well

He’s a Dawg!

5 hours ago, DEagle7 said:

What do people think of Tate Ratledge?  Seems like a very Stoutland-esque interior OL pick. He'd cost a day 2 pick though.

"A three-year starting right guard with a relatively safe floor, Ratledge plays with a dirt-dog mentality. His pad level is too high, but he mauls his way into early advantages in the run game. He has strong hands and uses them effectively to control and sustain his block. He’s an average athlete with adequate foot quickness and technique to get the job done. Ratledge lacks length and will reach when punching, opening him to quick counters. He sees and handles twists with above-average success and has enough anchor and redirect power to protect his pocket. Ratledge’s mentality and toughness should help him become a solid starter fairly quickly."

Sounds like he would fit right in

1 hour ago, Eagles1960 said:

Grant would interest me in the first round.  Williams in the second.

If we are talking about DTs and not necessarily NTs, the two DTs that interest me would be Nolen and Harmon.  I believe both would require a trade up which I would be for if the price isn't too high.  I would prefer a DT in the first round over an Edge.. Carter, Davis. Ojomo and Nolen/Harmon would be a heck of a rotation.  I don't believe they can play Carter next year as much as this year.  Sure he is young and strong but playing 90% of the snaps will take a toll down the line.

I agree with you about DTs, but what Davis is providing the team (so far) is a NT.  Grant could be both … NT and DT.  Williams is going to, in my opinion, be subject to the same limitations that Davis has displayed thus far.  I’m very high on Nolen, and a bit less high on Harmon, but high nonetheless.

1 hour ago, Wentz_Era said:

You need a certain perspective to consider him a ‘starter’…he’s not.  He’s in the whatever percentage of that 50 that doesn’t become a solid starter but becomes a solid role player.

I hear you.  You make a good point.  However, since Fangio’s and Nick’s approach to the beginning each game is to neuter the opposing team’s running game, and (ideally) force that opponent to be one dimensional, then Davis is consistently a starter.  Once the opponent is indeed forced to abandon the run game in an attempt to catch up, that starting (domination) role is for the most part no longer needed.

1 hour ago, Waiting4Someday said:

I don’t want to carry 2 NTs, so getting a 3T for the rotation and the eventual replacement for Ojomo seems preferable. Harmon in the 1st, but that seems unlikely… bunch of guys on Day 2.

I know the FO looked at the NT from Florida, kind of figured that might be a practice squad play or maybe giving JD something to think about in terms of signing an extension.

Jamaree Caldwell from Oregon has the ability and the body type to be an effective NT while also being an effective DT.

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

No it was specifically someone that tweeted that Howie cares less about RAS scores and drafts them at a lower rate. It’s the same thing as some random message board poster arbitrarily applying percentages to first round picks becoming solid NFL starters with the main source of fact being "trust me bro”.

I stand corrected.  You are correct.  With that said, several other posters posted statistical proof that RTK’s argument was not supported by the data.  And IIRC what I asked him was "Who is the tweeter that he was copying and pasting the message of”. It was a question asked in a cordial tone (although it was a loaded question).  When he admitted he had no idea who it was, I questioned whether he was simply trolling the board.

3 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Jamaree Caldwell from Oregon has the ability and the body type to be an effective NT while also being an effective DT.

Caldwell is a 2-gapping NT which I’d be interested in post-JD, but he’s also a 2 down player with less range that would be taken off the field in passing situations.

1 hour ago, DEagle7 said:

Ok I'll stop for a bit.

What do we do about safety is my only question. 

3 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

What do we do about safety is my only question. 

UPS

4 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

What do we do about safety is my only question. 

Cross train Adore Jackson?

1 hour ago, T-1000 said:

I just started to do some research on the draft this week and will likely go into "full draft mode" starting this week. However, from the little bit of stuff I have gathered this seems like the type of draft where there will be a ton of surprises in the 10-40 range with a lot of guys going much earlier or later than consensus.  As you said a lot of people had Nolan Smith had a top 15, and possibly even top 10 pick and he fell to us at 31. Jahmyr Gibbs was supposed to be a late first/early second round pick and he went 12th. Things like this happen every year and this appears to be the type of draft where it could happen quite a bit. I wouldn't rule out any edge rusher or DT possibly falling to 32 other than Carter and Graham. Obviously you look at guys like Walker and Williams and they are less likely to be there than someone like Stewart or Ezeiruaku but who knows. It just drives me up a wall when people who cover the draft every year make stupid statements like "that guy has NO CHANCE of making it to pick so and so." The other day I heard John McMullen say that there was "no chance James Pearce Jr. will be there at 32" which while unlikely is far from "no chance." 

Anyway, great post and I am glad you brought this up. It's like every year people's brains melt and they forget years of watching/covering the draft and all of the crazy stuff that happens. That's a major part of the reason that the draft is so amazing to watch because you just never know what's going to happen and things go sideways all of the time.

Who in their right minds would have thought Coop would last until the 2nd? Someone will fall.

6 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

What do we do about safety is my only question. 

Sign Simmons and pray?  My biggest issue in these locks is unless I go safety early I don't really like the available options. I'm sure that's mostly lack of knowledge on my part though

 

33 minutes ago, mattwill said:

I stand corrected.  You are correct.  With that said, several other posters posted statistical proof that RTK’s argument was not supported by the data.

Well I would challenge the theory that only 50% of picks 1 through 16 in any draft turn into "solid NFL starters” and challenge what that even means considering the person that made the statement is creating his own scoring system. There was never any statistical proof presented to support the argument that the first round has a 50% hit rate either. Feels much more like a generalized assumption.