54 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Play design and sequencing can be greatly helped by having much more makeable 3rd down conversions if they win on 1st and 2nd down. Having 3rd and longs consistently leads to a lot more 3 and outs than having more 3rd and 2 or 3. 3rd and 2 or 3 leaves pretty much the entire playbook available... which makes everything easier.

The formula if the first down pass fails seems to almost always be a second down run.

1 hour ago, Waiting4Someday said:

It's 7-8 years later so defenses are better at muddling the pass read and dealing with the RO branch of the decision tree.

That's true, but the RPO is still fundamentally different from the RO.

1 hour ago, NCiggles said:

Time for some smashmouth football. Line up and run them over.

Do we have the horses to do that currently? Last year we did and proved it regularly. This year... I'm not so sure.

1 hour ago, Waiting4Someday said:

It's 7-8 years later so defenses are better at muddling the pass read and dealing with the RO branch of the decision tree.

Yup

But the way to punish them for that is the qb to keep it and run more often. Force them out of it.

But with so much zone the back 6/7 (see what i did there?) have their eyes on the qb instead of turning their back to the qb

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Do we have the horses to do that currently? Last year we did and proved it regularly. This year... I'm not so sure.

Nope

Which is where an OC needs some misdirection etc. i mean hell come out under center every snap and run play action on first down

34 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

So since O-line and the run game are the biggest issue, shouldn't we be calling for Stoutland to be fired since thats his thing? (joking of course)

Honestly, if the OLine was healthy, there could be some reason for that. But, with Johnson in and out of the lineup, Jurgens still dealing with the back issue. Dickerson out and Mailata not the same... it really isn't coaching. It's execution due to either less talent on the field (Toth vs. Dickerson) or just guys not being as fast/strong, Johnson, Jurgens and Mailata. And then there's Steen, who is healthy, but even at his best has never been an road grader type. He's a much more finesse OG than Becton was. And we see the difference... both in terms of better pass pro from Steen, but much less effective run blocking. Becton was a bully as a run blocker, but got lost in Pass pro at times.

11 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

The formula if the first down pass fails seems to almost always be a second down run.

It was last year too. But last year, that 2nd down run could gain you 5-8 yards... making the 3rd down 3rd and 2-5. Much more manageable. This year, that 2nd down run sometimes even loses yardage and we are looking at 3rd and 10+, which almost never happened last year.

9 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

At the midseason point, OL is probably the hardest position to trade for besides QB. You have your choice of crappy teams with crappy O-lines themselves. The best you are going to get is some old journeyman who probably doesn't help the team all that much.

The Eagles should trade for Peter Skoronski. The team traded for Ron Solt in 1988 and that worked great.

Thursday Morning Eagles-Vikings Game Score Predictions Update - 75 hours until Kickoff

15 predictions recorded

8 are for an Eagles win and 7 are for a Vikings win.  The average predicted score is Eagles 22 Vikings 25.

I believe I got everyone's prediction. If you don't see your name below, I either missed your prediction or you haven't submitted one yet.

As always, please tag your prediction post with @mattwill that way I will be sure to see/record it.  Score predictions can also have an optional "Bonus Pick" tiebreaker prediction.  I will be taking predictions right up until Kickoff.

The list of the 15 predictions that are recorded is presented below, sorted high to low by Eagles points predicted. Giants win predictions when any come in are highlighted in yellow.

17 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

The Eagles should trade for Peter Skoronski. The team traded for Ron Solt in 1988 and that worked great.

Kelee Ringo and a 5th.

EASY

I actually don't think more RPO is the answer.

I'd rather just give Hurts two play calls and let him adjust to the numbers at the LOS.

The RPO forces Hurts to hold the ball for an extra tick or two, and our interior OL isn't holding up enough. Teams are also crashing through any pull blocking OL.

53 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

At the midseason point, OL is probably the hardest position to trade for besides QB. You have your choice of crappy teams with crappy O-lines themselves. The best you are going to get is some old journeyman who probably doesn't help the team all that much.

It is. If AN Other team has a player on an expiring contract, a pick next year is better than a comp pick maybe in 2 years. But yeah, its hard to get what you want.

55 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

The formula if the first down pass fails seems to almost always be a second down run.

Not sure, but I recall a couple of games where they just abandoned the run game altogether.

54 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Yup

But the way to punish them for that is the qb to keep it and run more often. Force them out of it.

But with so much zone the back 6/7 (see what i did there?) have their eyes on the qb instead of turning their back to the qb

Not many people mentioning Hurts has only run for 16 yards over the past two games.

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

It was last year too. But last year, that 2nd down run could gain you 5-8 yards... making the 3rd down 3rd and 2-5. Much more manageable. This year, that 2nd down run sometimes even loses yardage and we are looking at 3rd and 10+, which almost never happened last year.

I agree but it has been apparent since early in the year that teams are better able to defend the running game. I don't think it's just an o-line/blocking issue. This is a good review of the running game against Tampa:

A few things stand out about the problems. The TE's are not blocking well but they are often asked to make blocks against DE's. The oline was getting blown up but I think part of it is the defenders just know what's coming. Finally, the offense was running into boxes where they just didn't have the numbers. I am not sure why they can't adjust in game. It's not just a matter of execution or talent, although those are issues. They are repeatedly running plays that aren't working into bad looks. This is where coaching should adjust the calls, have counters that catch defenses off guard.

27 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

I actually don't think more RPO is the answer.

I'd rather just give Hurts two play calls and let him adjust to the numbers at the LOS.

The RPO forces Hurts to hold the ball for an extra tick or two, and our interior OL isn't holding up enough. Teams are also crashing through any pull blocking OL.

The counter is that RPOs make DE's and LB's pause. You should be able to take advantage of the pass if you make the right read.

18 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

This is actually spot on. It's so spot on it hurts. Us Eagles fans have been watching Jalen's heat maps for quite some time and noticing the middle of the field, especially short middle is a no-go zone. It's brutal. What's worse is that some film analyzers feel that the Eagles also never do all that much out of motion (they'll move people but then tend not to use them to enhance the concept), meaning you can kind of assume the middle of the field will be ignored, and that the motion man if they're a WR will be too.

So it makes the passing game a lot easier to stop if we're not just bullying people in the run game by out-toughing them.

Jalen seriously needs to become more comfortable throwing over the middle.

7 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

The counter is that RPOs make DE's and LB's pause. You should be able to take advantage of the pass if you make the right read.

The tightening up of ineligible man downfield has seriously, seriously hurt us. Ow.

@mattwill

Eagles 16

Vikings 27

Wentz 3 TDs

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

Nope

Which is where an OC needs some misdirection etc. i mean hell come out under center every snap and run play action on first down

I really don’t understand why they don’t run more play action. It’s not complicated and if Hurts can sell the RO and RPO pretty well he can sell play action. I can’t imagine it being a play Hurts "doesn’t feel comfortable” with unless it’s simply the under center part of it.

Baffles me why they don’t use it more. Much more.

13 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

It is. If AN Other team has a player on an expiring contract, a pick next year is better than a comp pick maybe in 2 years. But yeah, its hard to get what you want.

I just think the chances are low that the player you get contributes vs. what you are giving up to get him.

21 minutes ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

The tightening up of ineligible man downfield has seriously, seriously hurt us. Ow.

It's also a penalty that they never call on KC.

32 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Not many people mentioning Hurts has only run for 16 yards over the past two games.

It tough to get easy yards against zone defenses that can immediately come downhill on him; and for better or worse he's sliding... no broken tackles, no more concussions.

9 hours ago, jamiller said:

Didn't Doug put them in the gameplan specifically for Nick after watching tape as to what Nick's strengths were?

Notice it stopped working, took the league by surprise but DCs know how to stop it if there's no run option.

And as pointed out, refs are calling illegal man downfield far more these days - and that's a drive killer.

With a QB who is no threat to run, the RPO is just a different play action look, but one that forces a quick pass (before your OL get too far off the LOS).

Foles was limited as a QB, McKee isn't. I want McKee playing QB.