6 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

That's true but he's also thought highly of by Vic Fangio. While he may or may not be a good DC, his departure would likely hurt this team

Definitely don't want to lose him. Just saying I'm not worried that he's going to turn the Dallas defense into a juggernaut either

It was suggested that Lurie and Howie may push to overhaul the offense system while keeping Nick at HC position. Given the offense has been ups and downs in recent seasons, an overhaul would do a lot of good. The new OC would have more say on the decision processes, which would mean an established coach, and not merely on play calling. A la the DC we have.

Keeping the previous OC around sounds like a bad idea, even if he is on less important roles. He has the ears of Nick, and could cause serious problem for the incoming OC. In turn it would turn away good OC candidates to take the job.

So I'm going to explain why, IMO, the future of the franchise comes down to Cam Jurgens and Landon Dickerson.

There has been a ferocious debate about Jalen Hurts, his limitations, and the failures of the coaching staff. Patullo is now fired and the debate is the overall approach to the offense. Build it all around Hurts, his strengths, the running game...or get someone who really has a different blueprint. "We won a SB and went to 2 with Hurts mixed with a great running game." Going to both superbowls involved All-pro level play from 5 of 5 OL. 5 of 5. Maybe 4 of 5 in some circumstances.

That blueprint...with Hurts, with how he plays, with how the offense functioned in 2022 and 2024; it can work again IF the OL can get back to that level. Lane is already toast. If Jurgens and Dickerson are not going to be healthy enough to get back to that level, then the party is over. That's the tipping point. This OL goes from historic to below average. The OL needs to be rebuilt and, in turn, the entire offense needs to be rebuilt.

So their plan with OC, with QB...IMO...it's all tied to Jurgens and Dickerson. They can replace a RT with a hobbling Lane helping to groom a 1st round pick. If Dickerson and Jurgens get back to their peak, then they can have Hurts do his thing and run an offense that still looks familiar. But if LG/OC/RT (and RG with Steen) are all in flux, it's OVER.

That really needs to impact the personnel and OC strategy. Whether we get a slightly fresh perspective to run it back with an offense focused on the running game with a dynamic, versatile QB...or if we are starting from scratch.

So they really, really need to figure out what they can expect from those two OL.

37 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

Developing an extremely raw player that the Bills were openly mocked for drafting and was seen as a surefire bust into one of the top 3 QBs in the league is so not much.  

I wonder what is much for you then when it comes to an OC.

They were mocked by some and praised by others. Yeah, he was raw, but he had the talent, and Allen put in the work. How did the Giants do after one playoff win? How dynamic did they look? How did he do with Jones another high pick who ended up out of a job? Would I take him as OC? Yeah, over KP, but let's not pretend he is some innovator of amazing offenses. Throw in the fact he has a temper and that's not the guy I'd want here.

16 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

If we're basing our OC hire on whether they can accommodate Hurts not wanting to use the middle of the field then I don't even want to watch

Again, the immediate 2026 viability of Dickerson/Jurgens dictates how much the OC should be someone who fits Hurts and fits what we've seen on offense here from 2021-2024...because that model (tweaked) can get us to the SB again if the OL is back to business...or if it's a complete waste to go with a blueprint built around an all-world OL and a pass attack limited to fit with Hurts when we simply don't have the OL it requires.

If the OL can be whole again, you run it back with modest changes, a refreshed commitment to Hurts, and the expectation of minimal bumps in the road. If it can't be, then they really need to start from square one, ignore fit, and find the right blueprint.

1 minute ago, Diehardfan said:

They were mocked by some and praised by others. Yeah, he was raw, but he had the talent, and Allen put in the work. How did the Giants do after one playoff win? How dynamic did they look? How did he do with Jones another high pick who ended up out of a job? Would I take him as OC? Yeah, over KP, but let's not pretend he is some innovator of amazing offenses. Throw in the fact he has a temper and that's not the guy I'd want here.

The overwhelming response from the public was Josh Allen was going to be terrible and it was a horrible pick by the Bills. Allen was seen as so raw and broken that he might not be able to even start in the league for several years.

I'm not sure who needs to tell you this, because it should be common knowledge, but a great coordinator doesn't always translate into a great HC. What did Fangio accomplish in Denver?

You have the most ridiculous atte prediction criticism for Daboll because he didnt work out as HC for one of the worst run organizations in the league over the past decade+ therefore his successful work as OC, which we would be hiring him for, is completely invalidated.

And this is also assuming the Eagles have their pick of the litter. "Great scheme, requires throws Hurts doesn't like to make."

You think that coach wants to come here and see their scheme fall flat because it doesn't work with the incumbent QB? The Eagles aren't the only ones deciding if they want to prioritize fit. The fit will find them. They will only be able to hire an OC who wants to run an offense the way Hurts has proven he can run it. So they may not have a ton of choice in the matter.

I’m by no means an expert but I don’t see how Hurts would fit well into Mike McDaniels offense. That’s a name I keep seeing on the board.

Just now, RememberTheKoy said:

The overwhelming response from the public was Josh Allen was going to be terrible and it was a horrible pick by the Bills. Allen was seen as so raw and broken that he might not be able to even start in the league for several years.

I'm not sure who needs to tell you this, because it should be common knowledge, but a great coordinator doesn't always translate into a great HC. What did Fangio accomplish in Denver?

You have the most ridiculous atte prediction criticism for Daboll because he didnt work out as HC for one of the worst run organizations in the league over the past decade+ therefore his successful work as OC, which we would be hiring him for, is completely invalidated.

He was mocked to be a high pick in every mock for a reason. He had a ton of talent so that's a horrible take. It's not coincidence you didn't have a response for how did he do with Jones or how dynamic and innovative did the Giants look. You are making it about him as a HC. I'm saying how did his offense look. Anyone being honest would say it looked "eh". Again, throw in he has a temper and that's not the guy.

In firing Patullo so quickly and decisively, the Eagles really scapegoated the scheme and coaching (perhaps rightfully so). They have heard the complaints and almost certainly agree with the cries for proven, experienced, high-end offensive minds.

I will judge Hurts based on this hire. If they get one of the high-value names (because we can be pretty certain that's what Howie/Lurie want), that shows you the best and brightest in the NFL think they can run their scheme and win with Jalen Hurts. If they dip into the 2nd or 3rd rung of less experienced names, then you know what the top offensive minds in the league think they can do with Hurts and that they are worried they'd just be another Patullo here.

Obviously we’ll see what happens. I think a lot of the assumptions of what Jalen and Nick will or won’t do are based off of biases and even those based off past stats don’t preclude change.

He should be the guy who replaces Vic. Not sure he wants to wait around

How do we know what Jalen does and doesn’t like doing? Jalen never says anything. About anything.

11 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

He was mocked to be a high pick in every mock for a reason. He had a ton of talent so that's a horrible take. It's not coincidence you didn't have a response for how did he do with Jones or how dynamic and innovative did the Giants look. You are making it about him as a HC. I'm saying how did his offense look. Anyone being honest would say it looked "eh". Again, throw in he has a temper and that's not the guy.

So Shane Steichen not a good OC then because Anthony Richardson was a total and complete bust at 4th overall?

And it isn't a take, it is reality. Thr Bills were largely mocked for drafting Allen as high as they did and before other QBs who went in thr first round of that draft. Josh Allen was not seen as some slam dunk sure thing. Quite the opposite. He was seen is a huge risk and extremely raw QB that also came from a small school. To act like it was seen any other way is at the time as part of some pathetic attempt to discredit Daboll for his development of Allen is nothing but revisionist history.

3 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

that is not even CLOSE to being funny... LOL

28 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

So I'm going to explain why, IMO, the future of the franchise comes down to Cam Jurgens and Landon Dickerson.

There has been a ferocious debate about Jalen Hurts, his limitations, and the failures of the coaching staff. Patullo is now fired and the debate is the overall approach to the offense. Build it all around Hurts, his strengths, the running game...or get someone who really has a different blueprint. "We won a SB and went to 2 with Hurts mixed with a great running game." Going to both superbowls involved All-pro level play from 5 of 5 OL. 5 of 5. Maybe 4 of 5 in some circumstances.

That blueprint...with Hurts, with how he plays, with how the offense functioned in 2022 and 2024; it can work again IF the OL can get back to that level. Lane is already toast. If Jurgens and Dickerson are not going to be healthy enough to get back to that level, then the party is over. That's the tipping point. This OL goes from historic to below average. The OL needs to be rebuilt and, in turn, the entire offense needs to be rebuilt.

So their plan with OC, with QB...IMO...it's all tied to Jurgens and Dickerson. They can replace a RT with a hobbling Lane helping to groom a 1st round pick. If Dickerson and Jurgens get back to their peak, then they can have Hurts do his thing and run an offense that still looks familiar. But if LG/OC/RT (and RG with Steen) are all in flux, it's OVER.

That really needs to impact the personnel and OC strategy. Whether we get a slightly fresh perspective to run it back with an offense focused on the running game with a dynamic, versatile QB...or if we are starting from scratch.

So they really, really need to figure out what they can expect from those two OL.

Yup, the calling card of the eagles success even going back to 2017 was having a top 5 o line year in and year out culminating last year with a historically good O line.

Dickerson and Jurgens were a big part of that and if they continue to regress then where does that leave the birds?

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

And this is also assuming the Eagles have their pick of the litter. "Great scheme, requires throws Hurts doesn't like to make."

You think that coach wants to come here and see their scheme fall flat because it doesn't work with the incumbent QB? The Eagles aren't the only ones deciding if they want to prioritize fit. The fit will find them. They will only be able to hire an OC who wants to run an offense the way Hurts has proven he can run it. So they may not have a ton of choice in the matter.

No doubt. Kliff kingsbury who had success with Daniels, Murray, and Mahomes seems like may be a good fit. An OC who requires precision passing/timing in his offense probably wouldn’t be a great fit. Shanahan/McVay coaching tree.

Could be wrong though. The best coaches adjust to players/team strengths

4 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

So Shane Steichen not a good OC then because Anthony Richardson was a total and complete bust at 4th overall?

And it isn't a take, it is reality. Thr Bills were largely mocked for drafting Allen as high as they did and before other QBs who went in thr first round of that draft. Josh Allen was not seen as some slam dunk sure thing. Quite the opposite. He was seen is a huge risk and extremely raw QB that also came from a small school. To act like it was seen any other way is at the time as part of some pathetic attempt to discredit Daboll for his development of Allen is nothing but revisionist history.

Once again...how dynamic and innovative did the Giants offense look? Third time I've asked, but it's obvious why you avoid answering.

6 minutes ago, DaBirds said:

How do we know what Jalen does and doesn’t like doing? Jalen never says anything. About anything.

He texts them

my two cents - I think this next season is a "make or break" year for Nick. Will we get back to last years success or are gonna have a new OC, and new players from the draft and free agency, only to S the bed at the end of the season ?

How much was the oline helped last year by Hurts being able to move and run? This year his running on scrambles was slow and he couldn't beat my grammy to the edge so a run was a throw away almost every time.

Plus if our offense was so predictable wouldn't that cause the oline to look worse?

11 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

Thr Bills were largely mocked for drafting Allen as high as they did and before other QBs who went in thr first round of that draft. Josh Allen was not seen as some slam dunk sure thing. Quite the opposite. He was seen is a huge risk and extremely raw QB that also came from a small school. To act like it was seen any other way is at the time as part of some pathetic attempt to discredit Daboll for his development of Allen is nothing but revisionist history.

Some fans reacted negatively ( and those same fans wanted Josh Rosen), but the draft pundits mostly said he had a very high ceiling if the accuracy issues could be worked out. I personally thought he was the best QB in the draft.